Is there a point where I should worry?

[Rhiannon Feimorgan]

My son is five. Up to this point I have left well enough alone with his forskin. I'm wondering though if there is a point where I should worry if his forskin isn't retracting on it's own?

[Quirky]

No need to worry. It can take some boys up through puberty and beyond before retraction occurs. Just don't let anyone (like a doctor) mess with it!

[mommymarliah]

don't worry about it! My oldest is 6.5 years old and still doesn't retract, my 4 year old and even my 15 month old retract more than he does. He pees fine and he has never complained about it so I'm not worried

[feebeeglee]

I plan on giving my sons (no doubt to their great "Aw, Ma!" embarassment) basic information about their changing selves at puberty, and I'll include a brief mention that their foreskins will retract if they aren't retracting already, and if they pull it back as far as is comfortable and stretch the opening as far as is comfortable a few times a day (like when they pee or shower) it will get more flexible. I trust them not to retract themselves to the point of pain.

My daughters get the same but girl body info. Actually I think they'll all get the same packet of stuff for human body changes and basic anatomy.

At any rate, I wouldn't worry a bit.

[Pandora114]

Yeah:

Start worrying once the Dr puts his/her hand on your ds' penis to try to retract.

Then grab him and walk.

[Rhiannon Feimorgan]

We don't go to the dr unless there is a problem. I haddn't been feeling like there was one but my mother was saying how my brother (intact) had needed surgery to corect his non-retracting forskin when he was 3 and that seeing as my son was 5 we realy should have him checked blah blah yadda yadda..... you get the point. My gut reaction was that my pour little brother had undergon unnessisary intervention. I have however heard of (rare) adult men who didn't retract and needed help. So I was second gessing myself.

Thanks for the reassurance.

[Minky]

Wow, it really can stay non retractable til puberty? I have read on some sites that there is normal phismonsis (the foreskin being stuck over the head at birth) but also pathological where it's stuck for some other reason and that when kids are little its usually normal but when theyre older than toddlers it's usually pathalogical.

I read this whiel I was researching circumcision, it said doctors can tell whether whats happening is normal or not and treat it if its not.

I guess everyone else here can correct me if I read wrong but if it were my kid I would take him to the doctor and see what theyhad to say.


Oh and yes there are non retractable men and yes it is a problem. My friend dated one when she was younger, he couldnt have sex because it was painful for his foreskin to b tugged on. But as a typical teen boy he was too embarassed to tell his parents.

[alegna]

Some boys don't retract until puberty. Given the climate in the US there's no WAY I'd take a son to a dr. with that question. I'm more educated on the subject than they are.

-Angela

[lise brit]

Mostly, I am a lurker. I grew up in a country where circ is virtually unknown (Denmark) but emigrated to the US, where it has been the norm. When I see e-mails like this one, I know that the mother is genuinely concerned about her son. However, the answer is alwayts the same...

Why don't you take him to the nearest basketball court and wonder why he cant dunk the ball in the net. That should be an equally big worry.

I guess what I am trying to say is that THE FORESKIN WILL BE FINE. LEAVE IT ALONE. IT'S OK. DON'T WOTTHY ABOUT IT!!!

I apologize. I am tired, but the truth is, where I come from, nobody worries about it.

Again, thanks for a great board and protect your boys

Lise

Mother of two wonderful boys

[Frankly Speaking]

There have been more than a half dozen studies on when natural retraction becomes possible. At one extreme, they found that 1/3 of boys are retractile by 3 years old and at the other extreme, they found that 70% of boys are not retractile until after puberty. We know the truth is in there somewhere, we just don't know exactly where. The one thing that they do agree on however is that about 1% of boys are not retractile until their late teens.

Which ever it is, you have a very long time before you need to be concerned about it absent some sort of trauma.

That trauma can include repeated forcible retraction before the foreskin is naturally ready and repeated and untreated infections. Absent either of these, there is no problem and it becomes retractile when it is ready regardless of age.




Frank

[Minky]

Ok but statistically speaking arent most young men sexually active in or before their late teens. I am just imagining the problems that would cause both with pain during intercourse or stimulation and with bodily fluids building up under the foreskin. I know it is a long way off for any son of mine but nobody wants their teen to be the boy the girls talk about as having a deformed penis. I guess basicaly what Im saying is I would worry if it wasnt retracting at puberty.

[njeb]

Minky, if your ds reaches puberty, and his foreskin still doesn't retract, then there are simple stretching exercises he can do. He doesn't have to be circumcised.

Also, the doctor is the LAST person I would take him to, because most American doctors are totally uneducated about the structure and function of the foreskin. The only thing they learn in medical school is how to chop it off. From previous posts of yours, I get the impression that you live in a high-circ. area, so chances are the doctors around you are ignorant.

Please stop worrying about things that might happen. They don't happen to the vast majority of intact males. Any buildup under the foreskin can be washed away in the shower. Teach your ds how to wash himself. Most foreskin problems can be prevented with proper hygiene and education. For more information, go to www.nocirc.org and check out their instructions for cleaning.

[Quirky]

Minky, the thing is, just from hanging out here you probably already know more about the importance and care of the foreskin than a goodly proportion of doctors practicing in the US today. Just like breastfeeding, most doctors learn nothing about the foreskin in medical school (even anatomy texts show circed men, and most male cadavers will be circed). Nor do doctors learn how to treat any foreskin issues that may arise except with circumcision.

So if you take your young son to the doctor for a tight foreskin, the answers you will probably get are: a) You've got to circumcise him! (wrong answer) or b) You've got to retract him daily if he's not retracting by 3 years old! (wrong answer).

Actually, I should have put a) and b) the other way around, because many doctors believe that in order to keep the foreskin clean and/or stretched back, it's got to be retracted before it's ready. This leads to repeated tears and scar tissue buildup that might cause pathological phimosis. So in trying to "treat" the foreskin doctors actually cause a problem that will require circumcision.

Truly, truly, do not trust doctors to know about the normal foreskin and treatment of any (exceedingly rare) problems. There is story after story on this board of moms taking their babies to well-baby visits and having the doctors forcibly retract foreskins, insisting that it has to be retracted daily to be kept clean, insisting that a circumcision is necessary for "phimosis" at a young age, insisting that ballooning during peeing is a sign that circ is needed, it goes on and on....or of failing to diagnose a yeast rash, and calling it an "infection," or of failing to take cultures to determine whether an infection is bacterial and if so what kind....

Taking your son to the doctor for a foreskin "issue" (whether real or imagined) is like going to a blind optometrist to get your eyes checked.

Read this article by Paul Fleiss on protecting your intact son: http://www.mothering.com/articles/ne...uncircson.html

[paminmi]

Rhiannon, (love your name btw) I agree with everyone else in the idea that you shouldn't worry.

Here's an anecdotal story, as I have posted before: In my ignorance went to the ped with my son who was not retracting at around 2 years old or so. (I'm an RN and sadly we learned nothing about the intact penis in classes or clinicals. I just thought that it should come back.)

After thinking the ped knew what he was talking about and actually took his advise and tried forcibly retracting my son several times, I realized there was no way it was coming back. Not to mention the fact that his foreskin developed small cracks, bled and swelled. I still can't believe I did this-what an idiot!

Anyway, this led me to find NOCIRC (so I guess it wasn't such a bad thing I did it-I may not have become an intactivist!) and realize I needed to "leave it alone" and let nature do her job.

Fast forward 14 years, my son was recently incapacitated and in the ER and needed to be cathed. Long story and not going to go into details, but suffice it to say, I was present during the cathing and everything was working fine, if you KWIM.

For the last 14 years I have been afraid I had damaged him and he's okay! I worried for nothing...

Your little guy's foreskin will retract eventually- try not to worry about it mama.

From NOCIRC's # 4 pamphlet, such true, true words:

"The foreskin therefore can be likened to a rosebud which remains closed and muzzled. Like a rosebud, it will only blossom when the time is right. No one opens a rosebud to make it blossom." H.I. Tan, MD

Hugs,
Pam

[polarbear]

Some current position statements from medical associations who arguably have researched more than I, my mother in law, and my pediatrician combined…


American Academy of Pediatrics - Care for the Uncircumcised Penis: http://www.medem.com/search/article_..._typ=NAV_SERCH

“Sometime during the first several years of your son's life, his foreskin, which covers the head of the penis, will separate from the glans. Some foreskins separate soon after birth or even before birth, but this is rare. When it happens is different for every child. It may take a few weeks, months or years. … Most boys will be able to retract their foreskins by the time they are 5 years old, yet others will not be able to until the teenage years. As a boy becomes more aware of his body, he will most likely discover how to retract his own foreskin. But foreskin retraction should never be forced. Until separation occurs, do not try to pull the foreskin back — especially an infant's. Forcing the foreskin to retract before it is ready may severely harm the penis and cause pain, bleeding and tears in the skin.”


Canadian Pediatric Society: www.caringforkids.cps.ca/babies/Circumcision.htm

“The foreskin covers the shaft and head (glans) of a boy’s penis. During the early years of a boy’s life, the foreskin separates from the glans. This is a natural process that occurs over time. You do not need to do anything to make it happen. … Keep your baby’s penis clean by gently washing the area during his bath. Do not try to pull back the foreskin. Usually, it is not fully retractable until a boy is 3 to 5 years old, or even until after puberty. Never force it.”


The Royal Australasian College of Physicians (Former Australian College of Paediatrics): http://www.racp.edu.au/hpu/paed/circ...on/anatomy.htm

“It is normal for the inner surface of the foreskin to be fused to the glans in newborn males. Separation of the foreskin from the glans occurs spontaneously during childhood. By five years of age most of boys are able to retract their foreskin. A small percentage of boys are unable to fully retract their foreskin until puberty. The foreskin requires no special care during infancy. It should be left alone. Attempts to forcibly retract it are painful, often injure the foreskin, and can lead to scarring and phimosis.”


Common denominator: May not retract till teen years. Do not retract. No problem.

[Rhiannon Feimorgan]

Sounds like I've been on the right track. Goes to show you should always trust your gut. And that your mother can always make you secod gess yourself.

At this point I've been talking to my son occasionally about his forskin (usually in the bath) I've told him that one day it will retract and every once in a while I ask him if it does retract yet. I figure if anyones going to be pulling it back it should be him. Plus I think it sets the pattern of him being the authority on his own body.

[Frankly Speaking]

Minky, we know your history and we know what you're going through and we're going to be here to help you through this all of the way with our total support. Just keep asking questions and we'll keep supplying the answers.

Originally Posted by Minky

Ok but statistically speaking arent most young men sexually active in or before their late teens.

well, some are and some aren't. I would suspect that the average age is around 20 years old. The vast majority of these boys will have a naturally retractile foreskin long before they become sexually active or even really get the chance.

However, a foreskin that is not naturally retractile is not an impediment to the raging hormones of a young man. They will persevere! In all of the time I have been an advocate and all of the thousands of men and women who I have interacted with, I have run across 3 men who were adult that had foreskins that did not retract. All three had at least two children so it was not an impediment to their sexual life and in fact, it was their wives who contacted me, not the men. That speaks volumes about how unimportant it was to the men. I sent these men to a site that addresses this issue with simple stretching exercises. I never heard back from one of them, one I heard back from his wife a month or so later who said the problem was almost resolved and the third wrote me a week and a half later reporting that he was having amazing progress and expected a complete resolution of the problem in just a few more weeks.

I am just imagining the problems that would cause both with pain during intercourse or stimulation and with bodily fluids building up under the foreskin.

I have never heard of a pain problem. The foreskin tightly hugs the glans, so there is no significant build up of bodily fluids. I think there could be a convincing case made that there would be far more bodily fluid build up in the vaginas of women. Tests can confirm sexual activity in females as long as 5 weeks after their last sexual relations. I doubt this would be possible with men since the preputial space of a non-retractile penis would be mostly filled with smegma which would act as a barrier.

I know it is a long way off for any son of mine but nobody wants their teen to be the boy the girls talk about as having a deformed penis. I guess basicaly what Im saying is I would worry if it wasnt retracting at puberty.

No one other than your son would know it was not retractile unless he had a lover that noticed it. The appearance would be absolutely normal and the only way anyone would know was if they got their hands on it. Most teen girls are not going to have the experience to know and even if he was the 1 in 100 that was not retractile until late teens, it's not likely to be an issue.



Frank