is this good enough

[Minky]

I know I've mentioned on here that I convinced my DH that if the baby we're expecting turns out to be a little boy we will "hold off on" circumcizing him at birth. Now that the possibilty of having a new son is more realistic though he is starting to say things like, "he will have all sorts of problems and will have to be circumcised when he's a few months old, I don't know why you want to wait."

I don't want this baby to be circumcized, EVER. I've told him that but I've also had to tell him there will be no problems which I don't think I should be promising.

I'm glad he promised he won't pressure me about circumcizing right after the birth, but I'm worried the first time the baby has a problem with his penis, DH will act like the world is ending and demand he be circed?

I don't want to nag DH to much, he has come a really long way on the issue, but do you think this is good enough for now? Can I convince him "no circ, ever" later? i would love help from anyone whose had experience with a reluctant DH.

[eightyferrettoes]

Put your foot down. You're aren't REALLY going to let him have your baby circed later; there is no point in lying about it now.

And it's not your DH's penis. Sorry.

[Naiad]

When my dd was born we had to spend some time in the hospital. At one point we were in the 'intermediate' section, which was right outside the Formula Room, a utility closet of sorts, aka the 'Circ' Room (I kid you not). Across from dd was another prem, whose dad was quite o.k. with circumsion, until the first day he was there when they brought a poor little baby boy in for circ'ing. Hearing that child scream, then seeing the end result lying on the table when they opened the door to leave, was enough to change his mind. After that he had to leave whenever they were doing the procedure (so did I for that matter- thankfully it wasn't everyday).

Is there anyway you could show him some literature, or photos/videos so that he has to come face to face with the reality of what will be done to his son?

For the record, not one parent went in the room with their child, even though they were allowed.

[alegna]

Another vote for- put your foot down. Simply say you will not allow it to happen to your child. Period.

-Angela

[~Megan~]

Most likely he'll never have a problem with his penis. Its just not that likely that he will have any issues.

I do think you should work on convincing him now though so that its not an issue later.

[Velvet005]

Originally Posted by alegna

Another vote for- put your foot down. Simply say you will not allow it to happen to your child. Period.

-Angela

:

[Minky]

I have shown him the video. That's why he dosn't want it done during infancy any more though he claims the babies can't remember it anyway.

I have put my foot down. He knows I'm against it happening, ever and that it wont happen unless I give permission. But the little digs are getting to me, about having problems and the doctor saying circ is nesessary. Like, how do you tell if it is or isnt if a doctor says it? I know DH would take anything a doctor said as license to run out and get ds cut.

[HeartsOpenWide]

I wonder, what does the hospital do when one parent wants the circ done and the other refuses to sign the concent for, like the mother. Does only on parent have to concent? What do they do in this situation?

[willowsmama]

does you dh know in detail what happens during a circ? Has he ever seen a video of one? Lying to him about this isn't going to make it any better, if anything he'll be saying ' But you said you just wanted hold off for a couple months!' Then you'll have a whole new fight on your hands.

How about ' Honey, I've been doing some research on circ'ing. There isn't a reason to circ, the pain relief is far too inadaquate and it is amputating a healthy body part. I really think this is something we need to reconsider. What's your feeling?'

FTR, once I described a circ in detail to my dh , he was crossing his legs and saying ' owowowowowowwo OW' at the thought. Then he agreed that it was not going to be done.

[eightyferrettoes]

You know, have you asked your family doc or ped about this issue? I have a VERY anti-circ ped, but you wouldn't know it from the way he talks BEFORE that decision is made. He was practically doing a tapdance in the recovery bay when he found out we weren't circing, and that made DH feel pretty good about the decision.

In the unlikely event that an issue arises, do your research, just as you've done with the initial decision. Just as you'd desperately look for an alternative if some doc recommended having your daughter's nipples removed, search long and hard before allowing this to happen "to fix a problem."

Doctors are not always right. And keep telling yourself, "It's not my husband's penis."

That will help keep your resolve.

[eightyferrettoes]

And ultimately, you don't need to "convince" your DH about it, not after the birth, and not eighteen months from now.

You aren't being a nag, and you do not need his permission to protect your baby.

Be strong.

[Frankly Speaking]

Minky, I think you have already hit a home run and just don't realize it.

From what I understand from your description, your son will not be circumcised at birth and your husband agrees with that. I also understand that he will only be circumcised later if it becomes necessary. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Here's what will happen: You will take your perfectly healthy, happy and whole baby home. It is highly unlikely that there will be any problem but if there is, you simply state that he will be treated with the least invasive method possible first. That would be with antibiotics or antifungals just the same as it would be with a daughter if she had the exact same problem. The chances of him having a problem that can't be treated with medications are virtually nil, less than 1 in 18,000, so it is not something to worry about.

If there is ever a problem, come here and we will coach you in what to demand the doctor do to positively identify the problem and we will advise you on whether the treatment is appropriate. Since there will be no problems or if there are, they will be quickly addressed by simple medications, the opportunity for circumcision will just never come up.

Sometimes you can't get the whole enchilada. You take what you can get and make the most of it. From what I understand, you have an adequate piece of the enchilada to insure that your son will not be circumcised until he is at least 18 years old and decides to do it for himself. (Doubtful at worst!)

Isn't that what you are really trying to accomplish? If so, just tell your husband that if he ever does have a problem that can't be addressed with medication, you will agree to the circumcision. That keeps your son whole and satisfies your husband. Everyone is happy!




Frank

[feebeeglee]

The number of penises that actually NEED a circumcision over the course of a man's life are 1 in every 18,000. And that's from either cancer or gangrene, I think.

Healthy young men and boys NEVER need a circumcision. Ever. Any more than healthy young women and girls need their clitoral hoods and labia excised.

So chances are very, very high that any doctor who suggests a circumcision is utterly WRONG.

Get a second and third opinion from a doctor who knows what the heck he's talking about - just like you'd do for a doctor who wanted to remove your daughter's external girlie bits.

[Minky]

Frank's got it right. DH is siding with me as long as there aren't any "problems." He isn't saying it's going to be done later no matter what, he has pretty much agreed it's not necessary though I don't think he's quite as anti-circ as I am, he is more for parents choice.

He is also convinced there will be big problems. But from what I'm reading here, once people see their perfect child that changes?

[njeb]

Originally Posted by Minky

Frank's got it right. DH is siding with me as long as there aren't any "problems." He isn't saying it's going to be done later no matter what, he has pretty much agreed it's not necessary though I don't think he's quite as anti-circ as I am, he is more for parents choice.

He is also convinced there will be big problems. But from what I'm reading here, once people see their perfect child that changes?

That's right, Minky.

[QueenOfThePride]

It just takes men longer to change their idea of circumcision. When I was pregnant it took a long time for my DH to agree with me on not circ'ing. I would have put my foot down anyway, but I wanted to be in agreement with him. For the longest time after DS was born, I still got the feeling that DH would have still liked to have him circ'ed. But just last month, out of the blue, DH said, "I think not circumcising DS was totally the right decision." He's never said anything so positive about it before. I asked him why he said that, and he said he had been reading the New Testament parts that say that what matters is what's in your heart, not what's in your pants. (To paraphrase a bit!) The parts that say that circumcision has no bearing on having a spiritual heart. So yay for my DH! Minky, yours may take a year or two to see the light. If he is agreeing with you now, you've got a good thing going!

[Quirky]

Minky, I think you're there!

I think the last part is interviewing - and I mean really interviewing - a pediatrician to find one who is actually knowledgeable. That way, if a concern does come up, you know you have someone in your court.

Take the Fleiss article on the care of the intact penis with you, as well as the AAP statement on the care of the intact penis, and make sure the ped reads and agrees with them.

Questions for the ped:

1) Do you agree that leaving a baby intact is the best way to go? Do you agree that routine circumcision is totally unnecessary and harmful? (answer to both should be yes)

2) Do you agree that no one should ever retract my son's foreskin except my son himself? Do you agree that you will never try to retract my son's foreskin? (answer to both should be yes)

3) Do you understand that the normal age of retraction may not be until puberty, and that there is no reason to be concerned if my son does not retract before then? (answer should be yes)

There are more questions you could ask about things that might come up, but the answers to these questions will tell you if you're at least in the ballpark with a supportive ped who can be educated if necessary.

[Quirky]

Added: if your dh is in agreement not to circ at birth, I would actually just drop the subject for a while. He may be arguing just to save face. My dh does this, he can't stand to lose an argument - that's OK, neither can I! : - so we just keep picking at each other even though the matter is really already resolved.

On circ, I should have quit when I was ahead in getting my dh to realize there was no way we would circ our ds. I wanted him to be in 100% agreement with me that all circ is evil all the time and he just wasn't ready to go there with me, and it caused a lot of ugly arguments. I would say, just let it lie for now. He doesn't have to see things your way just as long as you've won the big one.

Oh, and I would also go out and buy the latest issue of Mothering and leave it in the bathroom at some point (and take out all the other reading material :LOL). There's a great article on circ.

[Frankly Speaking]

Originally Posted by Minky

He is also convinced there will be big problems. But from what I'm reading here, once people see their perfect child that changes?

Here's what I think is happening and what will happen:

Your husband is a victim of all of the old myths he has heard all of his life and just can't blow them away that easily. He wants to circumcise his son because he believes those myths. However, he has run into a roadblock that is you. He realizes you have done a good bit of research about this and that you are convinced that keeping your son intact is set in concrete and he doesn't want to force you into something you adamantly resist. So, he's figuring that he will let you have your way but that he will eventually get his way because everything he has heard tells him that your son's foreskin will just be one problem after another. That's what is happening now.

Here's your future . . . Your son will be born and taken home whole and DH will sit back and wait for what he thinks is the inevitable. It just won't happen. As he becomes used to his son and there are no problems, he's going to really start questioning his beliefs. They may not all come tumbling down but they will be on very shakey ground. One of the old myths is that circumcision after the neonatal stage is very painful in the recovery period and this is one of the myths that will work for you after your son starts bonding with Dad and develops his personality. Dad is not going to want to put his son through that "inevitable" agonizing pain of a post natal circumcision. At worst, that puts him into a vexing "Catch 22" and at best, he's going to come into the light from the dark side and be very glad that you convinced him not to do this to his son.

At any rate, a circumcision is not in your son's future and while Dad may never be totally on board with the decision, he will become comfortable with it and you won't hear more unless it is validating your decision.



Frank

[hunnybumm]

Originally Posted by HeartsOpenWide

I wonder, what does the hospital do when one parent wants the circ done and the other refuses to sign the concent for, like the mother. Does only on parent have to concent? What do they do in this situation?

I am curious about this too. I KNOW in the hospital closest to us the father has absolutly no rights to the baby whatsoever. The father is not given a wrist band, the father can not get the baby from the nursery even with mom's concent, the father can't sign any paper work as long as mom is able to. So as far as DH having the baby circ at the hospital, that wouldn't even be a possibility here. And as far as DH having the baby circ at the peds office without moms concent, I think my peds office would wonder why the heck DH is coming to the peds office after 21 months of me being the only one they see. And that he was bringing the child in for the circ... I think they would probably call me and say "Who is this guy and why does he have your baby?" Though DH did come with me to DSs appointments until he went back to work when DS was 1 month old.

I am curious if the father can have the child circ against the mothers wishes?