Waldorf vs Montessori -- preschool

[True Blue]

I've toyed with the idea of preschool, but will probably wait til prek before I think about sending DS. What are the differences, and which do you prefer and why?

Thanks!

[philomom]

Waldorf has a fantasy based approach. Prolong childhood as long as possible. Learn to read late. Leave treats for fairies and other fairie type folks. Watercolor everyday. Music everyday. Tv and computer time put off until high school.

Montessori is reality based. Learn to set the table. Learn to cook. Learn to read early by memorization of your labeled home and classroom items. Tv and computer are just one of the many "tools" you may use to learn.

In the end, I choose neither. I tried to bring the best parts of each into my own parenting style.

[flyingspaghettimama]

I would suggest reading the thread above on "comparisons." And going into the threads on Waldorf and Montessori above to see what concerns and highlights are in each approach. And read some books...I think much of it is about your child and their needs and interests and what you as a parent value. It's all good!

The one thing I would point out is that TV and computer use is heavily discouraged by most Montessori schools, at least in my area, much the same as Waldorf. They aren't dictatorial about it (i.e. it's not like you wouldn't be allowed to attend if your kids DID watch TV) but encourage families to participate in Turn off the TV weeks and have upfront parent ed nights on the subject. I have never seen a computer in a Montessori classroom, ever.

Reading is also not taught by memorizing labels at all - the label exercises are introduced AFTER sound/print awareness is introduced by phonemic awareness and sounding out. There's a method to the madness...

Painting and coloring items are a big part of Montessori classrooms as well. I do think they are more emphasized at Waldorf though, which is not a bad thing.

[True Blue]

Thanks. Right after I posted I noticed the thread in Comparisons!

[kiwimutti]

the two differences i noticed are...the value of free play is high on waldorf priorities and not recognized at all at montissori.

At our montissori the children watch vidios on rainy days instead of playing...which i think is a bit sad. also tv is very much a part of our montissori...all birthday cards/ cakes/any ocasion is ALL tv charactures and homemade birthday cakes are not allowed...so its walmart bright orange cupcakes at least once a week. They actually had a "nutritionalist" doing the lunches...which were pizza, canned fruit, hotdogs you name it . where as the local waldorf serves a dirrerent grain each day etc...home made bread and homemade juice.

The montissori activities are to be done ONE WAY or not at all...where as waldorf encourages imaginitive creativeity.

we have chosen neither though, but the waldorf would have been nice if it was closer because it is close to how i would like my home to be even if a little bit over the top...it would balence my lack at home (I havent managed to quite get there yet) The montissori actually had about 7 of the 10 things i would like in a preschool...but I just couldnt handle the strength of those 3 things it didnt.
... as another mum said we just incorperate the best of everything we can.

[True Blue]

Thanks. Sometimes I wonder if I should be sending him to preschool bc I just don't have my act together at home. We've been watching way too much tv, and the kids have too much time that is unstructured while I try to get my stuff done. There has to be a better way! I don't want to send them to preschool, but I would if it would be best. Ideally, I'd like to incorporate both philosophies into homelife, sort of homeschooling preschool. DS keeps asking me to teach him to read, so a Waldorf school that discouraged that would be out of the question; however, at the same time, I feel his imaginative play is lacking so maybe it would be helpful. I don't know. Maybe I need to throw out everything we own and buy all new Waldorfy stuff. :LOL Anyone have ideas for getting things together? Or perhaps that is a different thread entirely...but where to post it?

[kiwimutti]

:LOL you sound like me...even if you did throw out everything and start fresh with waldorfy stuff the other stuff would be back before you knew it...there is another thread about that :LOL called "waldorf toys"

I feel the same way..sadly i think dd has even watched more tv at home than she did at montissori. I think unstructured time is great though...without a tv. it was nice absolutly having to get up at the same time every morning which ment regular bed times and just more routine and rhythem in general and we definatly remembered to brush our teeth every morning also :LOL more baths, more ear cleaning! and dd loved her teacher so much! she is a wonderful teacher and adores the kids...

i feel like maybe if my home became more orderly and for want of a better word "waldorfy" :LOL then I would feel like 3 days a week at montissori would be fine for dd. we are off over seas in 10 weeks anyway so maybe she could just go till then, sort of like nothing serious

...hey also waldorf doesnt discourage reading...i went to WS and i wanted to read from the start because i wanted to write letters to my dad...and my teacher knew this and helped me do it. They might have tried to balence out the reading with handcrafts though...which im pleased about because now making things for my kids is one of the greatest joys of mothering.

good luck...sounds like you are a concientious mama!
(I should have had montissouri homework as well...for my spelling :LOL )

[flyingspaghettimama]

Kiwimutti, is your school accredited by a Montessori organization (AMI, AMS, WMI)? It sounds very unusual. At my daughter's school (and most in my area) children must bring healthy lunches and ingredients, and no birthday celebration cakes are allowed (too much sugar winds them up). I cannot imagine paying for my daughter to watch TV, personally. She could do that at home for free - if she were allowed to do it here either! They make the kids go outside in the rain (parents bring wet-weather gear) to play anyhow. I also don't know what I think about only one right way to do something; or no free time. Perhaps at some schools - at my daughter's, the whole day is free time except for lunchtime. So it must really be school-by-school; but the two schools that my daughter has/is attending are AMI accredited or run exclusively by AMI teachers.

Truebluexf if you go into the Montessori forum and look up the sticky called "Where to find help", there are several websites and books which will help you to do your own Montessori at home. The only drawback to it though is that a big part of Montessori is having a mixed-age classroom (3-6) where older children are modelling and assisting younger children. But my daughter didn't start until 3.5 and we did a LOT at home before that - mostly practical life - i.e. cleaning around the house and some fun reading games.

I would ask in the waldorf forum about reading readiness and the age that formal instruction begins in waldorf schools. I think it's a controversial subject, but I don't know much myself.

[kiwimutti]

flyingspaghettimama...well keep in mind we are in MISSOURI...the backwards "no-can-do" state that probably explains the junk food thing...

(totally off topic... but when i was pregnant i used to drive an old woman to kidney dialisis every other day, who had been a nutritionalist as her career, and who often made me up little bags of frosted dohnuts and other complete junk and said I needed the "extra nutrition"...so maybe that is a nutritionalist thing ) people around here believe packeged food is "more hyginic"

:LOL ..From what Ive read about the montissori Method There is definatly NOT free time any time (except when they play out side...and you are right, they do play in the rain, and even the snow until it gets too cold then its TV time)...the children are allowed to walk around the highly structured "sequenced activity area" and pick which activity they would like to do from the oppertunities provided to learn specific skills and concepts. This is NOT free time! There is NO value in imaginary play or fantasy. The children absolutly have to do the activity (or try to do it) correctly otherwise they are not allowed to touch it. So the most any child can gain from any activity is the concept or programming an adult has put into it. (which i suppose is one idea of "education" but I feel like kids are way smarter than that and that is an incredibly limited way to learn. The focus is on INTELLECTUAL development...which kinda takes the magic out of childhood IMHA...and that happens soon enough anyways these days...)

...That's what I understand directly from maria montissori's method and it was explained again to me by the teacher, Yes they are accredited...they have to be. And they follow the montissori method closely and attend all the clinics and seminars to keep up to date...they are right into it and very excited about it too! :LOL

[lauren]

I'm going to put this thread into the Comparisons subforum so others will find all your comments as well. O.K.?

[flyingspaghettimama]

Hmm. I would suggest reading "The Montessori Controversy." The value of imagination and imaginary play has been integrated into most Montessori classrooms, from my understanding, or at least not quashed as you're describing at your daughter's school. There's been a lot of psychological research since Montessori's time that has been integrated at many schools. It sounds like the explanations you've been given are fairly rigid and harsh-sounding? Do they not have drama time or art materials for the children?

No school calling itself "montessori" has to be accredited. It's a choice they make. They probably have to be licensed by the state, but really anyone can call themselves Montessori. I could say I'm a Montessori teacher and open my own school with absolutely no training. I would hope nobody would actually send their child to my fictional school...

It sounds like you're not very happy with her school - are there any others in the area that don't use TV, have healthy foods, and are more focused on the whole child?

[kaydee]

Originally Posted by kiwimutti

:LOL ..From what Ive read about the montissori Method There is definatly NOT free time any time (except when they play out side...and you are right, they do play in the rain, and even the snow until it gets too cold then its TV time)...the children are allowed to walk around the highly structured "sequenced activity area" and pick which activity they would like to do from the oppertunities provided to learn specific skills and concepts. This is NOT free time! There is NO value in imaginary play or fantasy. The children absolutly have to do the activity (or try to do it) correctly otherwise they are not allowed to touch it. So the most any child can gain from any activity is the concept or programming an adult has put into it. (which i suppose is one idea of "education" but I feel like kids are way smarter than that and that is an incredibly limited way to learn. The focus is on INTELLECTUAL development...which kinda takes the magic out of childhood IMHA...and that happens soon enough anyways these days...)

I disagree with this characterization. Montessori valued "freedom within limits" and to me, that is what a good M classroom offers. It's not for everyone, but I would not describe it as It does stress the value of real-life activity, whereas Waldorf places more emphasis on the imaginary, but I actually found a certain rigidity in Waldorf (how the teacher is the leader) rather offputting.


[quote Yes they are accredited...they have to be. [/QUOTE]

What do you mean "they have to be" accredited? Montessori is not a trademarked name. Anyone can call themselves a Montessori school, even if they do not follow Montessori tenets. It is hard for me to believe that an AMI or AMS accredited school would allow a TV in a classroom. Our AMS-accredited school would *never* allow a TV in the 3-6 room, and doesn't introduce computers until elementary level.

[kiwimutti]

Ive been thinking about this quite a bit and I think what ever methods are used in any school...and how far into each philosophy each individual school takes itself...acredited or not...it comes down to what the end GOAL of the school is I suppose.

From my understanding "normal" public school is considered to have most acomplished its goal if students get great grades in subjects considered most important...reading writing and math etc and can then go on to choose any field of work they choose in life and excell in their chosen career... Right?

I think Montissori school has figured out how to acomplish this even better...so if thats where you want you child headed it would be an awesome choice...

Waldorf school has a bit of a different take on "success" and in my humble opinion a wholer understanding of it...that there is waaaay more to life than your career and that by the time you are finishing school your wonder about the world is still in tact and you are then ready to BEGIN learning (and have mastered all the basic skills needed to assist in your life long adventure of learning)plus a good sense that you are valued far beyond your grades.

I think it comes down to a different understanding of life and human capacity...
(im not saying there arnt a lot of weird and BIZZARE concepts also with some of Steiners work ...) I dont know . I think even with all that stuff, waldorf education prepairs a person for the real world...more than the conventional idea of "real life"...which is ironic in the instance of montissori valuing "real life". :LOL

[nonconformnmom]

I thought I'd chime in here just to add that, while the philosophy a preschool espouses is an important consideration in anyone's choice of where to take their child, preschool is certainly not their only exposure to concepts of "reality" and "fantasy". My child goes to a Montessori preschool for 14 hours a week. The remainder of her time is spent with us at home, where we have lots of imaginative play, free time, and anything else we want to do.

For me, no one choice has it all; that's why our job as parents is so fun because we get to fill in the gaps.

[flyingspaghettimama]

Originally Posted by kiwimutti

Ive been thinking about this quite a bit and I think what ever methods are used in any school...and how far into each philosophy each individual school takes itself...acredited or not...it comes down to what the end GOAL of the school is I suppose.

From my understanding "normal" public school is considered to have most acomplished its goal if students get great grades in subjects considered most important...reading writing and math etc and can then go on to choose any field of work they choose in life and excell in their chosen career... Right?

I think Montissori school has figured out how to acomplish this even better...so if thats where you want you child headed it would be an awesome choice...

Waldorf school has a bit of a different take on "success" and in my humble opinion a wholer understanding of it...that there is waaaay more to life than your career and that by the time you are finishing school your wonder about the world is still in tact and you are then ready to BEGIN learning (and have mastered all the basic skills needed to assist in your life long adventure of learning)plus a good sense that you are valued far beyond your grades.

I think it comes down to a different understanding of life and human capacity...
(im not saying there arnt a lot of weird and BIZZARE concepts also with some of Steiners work ...) I dont know . I think even with all that stuff, waldorf education prepairs a person for the real world...more than the conventional idea of "real life"...which is ironic in the instance of montissori valuing "real life". :LOL

Hmm. That is an interesting understanding. In our experience, our Montessori schools are about educating the whole child, not just the intellect. The only goal I have is for an empathetic, loving, independent child who loves learning and communicating. A love of learning works out no matter what you want to be - an engineer or a hippie living in the woods. At my daughter's school, they have a lot of cooking, sewing, drama, physical expression, music, and art opportunities as part of the integrated curriculum, which she LOVES.

It sounds like you really don't like your Montessori at all. Is there no waldorf in your city?

[kiwimutti]

flyingspaghettimama no no, i do like it...and dd LOVES it...she may even go again for a while soon. 7 out of 10 remember

I think I am just saying that the emphisis is strongly on the intellectual stuff...that they may do other other stuff but its not valued as much.

I think my dd would love to attend montissori...and it would probably suit her just fine...she loves the alphebet and counting and all that and really seemed to do well with the structured classroom...

she plays for hours and hours by herself with all sorts of make believe...around dh and I as we work around our campground. So it would probably be fine. Im still thinking about it.

the waldorf school is just a bit too far to drag dd even a few times a week...if we lived closer she would probably go.

Dh used to be a director at several sylvan learning centres so he has a whole idea about how we are going to do it too...we are a bit like dharma and greg...a great balence, not that i watch that :LOL

like Kayrn said..."no one choice has it all; that's why our job as parents is so fun because we get to fill in the gaps" ...so true -I have looked forward to this part for so long, I always wanted to be such a groovie parent...going to the source of knoweledge for example (like going to china instead of just reading about it etc...if i could pull it off :LOL )

[kaydee]

Don't forget that another critical aspect of Montessori education (as Maria Montessori envisioned it, and as schools faithful to her vision will emphasize) is sowing the seeds of peace, both in the "children's house" and across the globe. Yes, intellectual pursuits are important, but so are the concepts of "grace and courtesy" and of peaceful conflict resolution are also emphasized in true Montessori settings, and a vision of a peaceful planet were very important to Maria M.

Personally, I firmly believe that Montessori is a form of holistic education, albeit operating under a different "holism" than Waldorf. It does sound, Kiwimutti, as if your Montessori school seems to have a different emphasis than what Maria Montessori would have preferred.

[miasmommy]

:

Hi All...

Already thinking ahead for pre school for my 19 mo. old for next year... we have both a Waldorf & a Montessori in our town, both have excellent reputations...

I loved the Montessori ( attended an Open House) but am not crazy about the idea of a 4 or 5 day programs ( mandatory, even for part time!)

The Waldorf OH is this weekend.

Just wanted to thank you all for your great thread!

miasmommy