White Anti-Racist Parents - Page 14

[Charles Baudelaire]

Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies

If white people had not created racism in the first place, it would not exist today.
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Mama, with all due respect, I've got to contend that racism probably existed long before there were white or black people. Given the fact that people in a given group tend to think that they're better than or superior to other people in visibly different groups (or even not that visibly different), I have a feeling that racism has been with us since the days when the Cro-Magnons wiped out the Neanderthals.

Oh, and FWIW, the Neanderthals were blonde and white, as recent science has persuasively argued, basing their arguments on the fact that this group almost exclusively inhabited the periglacial areas of Europe and Asia.

[blessed]

My parents were extremely liberal (ex-hippies turned professionals) and we were raised with this utopian ideal of 'all people are the same, only the color of their skin is different' .

That was great. Only problem was, I never knew anybody who wasn't middle class white (smallish midwestern city). When I was in my early 20s, I moved to Cincinnati, which is 40% african american. I remember when the realtor was driving me around to look at houses and I asked 'what holiday is it?'
'What holiday? What do you mean?'
'Yeah. Why is everyone off of work today?'

I had never seen groups of adults just hanging out on their porches or on street corners in the middle of a work day!

There are a lot of different cultures in America. Sometimes these cultures fall along racial lines, sometimes not. I'd only been exposed to one: middle class midwestern. There are many others.

It took me a painful transition to come to terms with this. For instance, black culture can be much louder than WASP. "HEY GIRL! What you doin'??" It seemed uncivilized to me. It irritated me, and I found myself attributing characteristics to individuals based on my prior experiences of people of similar appearance. I was racist, even though I didn't want and tried hard not to be.

It''s tough. Really the only way to keep your kids truly open to other cultures is to expose them to them. It's not easy, but it's well worth it .

[kama'aina mama]

Originally Posted by blessed

I found myself attributing characteristics to individuals based on my prior experiences of people of similar appearance. I was racist, even though I didn't want and tried hard not to be.
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Wow. Thank you for saying that so well. Not easy to admit. I am also a person struggling with my own racism. I sometimes catch myself and remind myself.... different does not need to be better or worse, it can simply be different. I can celebrate the difference without judging it. And if I trry hard I can teach that to my daughter.

[Mommy Piadosa]

I had a simular upbringing - I seriously in all reality thought that the "n word" was an old term used in Huck Finn and that no one would be stupid enough today to judge another person based on the color of their skin. Boy when I went to college was I in for a rude awakening. To this day I cannot wrap my head around racism. I know it exists, I know how awful it is- I just cannot understand it.

[~member~]

Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire

Mama, with all due respect, I've got to contend that racism probably existed long before there were white or black people. Given the fact that people in a given group tend to think that they're better than or superior to other people in visibly different groups (or even not that visibly different), I have a feeling that racism has been with us since the days when the Cro-Magnons wiped out the Neanderthals.

Oh, and FWIW, the Neanderthals were blonde and white, as recent science has persuasively argued, basing their arguments on the fact that this group almost exclusively inhabited the periglacial areas of Europe and Asia.

I don't buy that. It is easy to absolve present day racism by saying stuff like that. Trying to say racism has existed forever only plays into the belief that it is okay. It has not existed, it was studied, given a term, and used as a tool to dominate, enslave, and commit genocide.

[Missy]

While I respect the spirit and the science behind "we're all one race" and "we're all connected", in real life those sentiments don't work. To me, living in Virginia, they still exude that air of privilege. My children cannot avoid acknowledging the impact of race. They can't afford to. They have to be grounded in the reality in order to effectively confront it.

It would be so much more powerful if, instead of denying the social definitions of race, we taught this generation to actively oppose racism, to recognize it even in the most subtle form, and to say simply and firmly that it's not acceptable.

Ultimately, someday, we might be able to live as one race, but as long as people are denied equal rights because of their skin color (and they are, regardless of laws) we have to recognize racism and teach our children how to take a stand and push back, even if it doesn't seem to directly affect them.

[Charles Baudelaire]

Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies

I don't buy that. It is easy to absolve present day racism by saying stuff like that. Trying to say racism has existed forever only plays into the belief that it is okay. It has not existed, it was studied, given a term, and used as a tool to dominate, enslave, and commit genocide.

I by no means absolve any racism, past or present, by saying it's always existed -- but I think it always has. If you want further proof, look to the behavior of primates toward other primates who aren't part of their tribe. I don't see that as far different from racist behavior, which, to my mind, really doesn't rise above the level of the snarling piss-contesting animal in the first place.

I honestly believe that racism is an outgrowth of animal behavior, but I also believe it is incumbent upon us as humans, and in some ways (I hope) able to think with an ethical and moral clarity that other animals don't (to the best of our knowledge) possess, to treat others with the same kindness and respect we would treat our own children. In other words, I think we can act with more kindness to our human kindred than our primate relatives do to theirs; I think that's what makes us human and the failure to do so makes us less so.

[~member~]

Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire

I by no means absolve any racism, past or present, by saying it's always existed -- but I think it always has. If you want further proof, look to the behavior of primates toward other primates who aren't part of their tribe.

That is not racism. And I am appalled that you would even suggest that any animal is able to be racist. Race was 'created' by a person, it is not an inherent behavior. Human beings are not born racist, it is taught/learned.

Scientifically, there is no such thing as different races between human beings.

[sadie_sabot]

Originally Posted by Missy

While I respect the spirit and the science behind "we're all one race" and "we're all connected", in real life those sentiments don't work. To me, living in Virginia, they still exude that air of privilege. My children cannot avoid acknowledging the impact of race. They can't afford to. They have to be grounded in the reality in order to effectively confront it.

It would be so much more powerful if, instead of denying the social definitions of race, we taught this generation to actively oppose racism, to recognize it even in the most subtle form, and to say simply and firmly that it's not acceptable.

Ultimately, someday, we might be able to live as one race, but as long as people are denied equal rights because of their skin color (and they are, regardless of laws) we have to recognize racism and teach our children how to take a stand and push back, even if it doesn't seem to directly affect them.

hear, hear.

[mommy68]

We live in the country around mostly whites but the kids are in a private school with mixed races and I've never had a problem with this.

My kids are just taught to respect ALL people (including handicapped) from the time they are very young. Plus, since they both went to daycares, preschools, our church mainly that also had people and friends of ours of varying races they are just used to it anyway I guess. It's just never been an issue with us.

FWIW, I don't feel that racism was started by white people or any other race. How can anyone know for sure? We don't know what it was like ions ago so no one can comment on that correctly. Even if racism didn't start back when white people had black slaves, it would have started at some point, that's a given.

[Missy]

Originally Posted by mommy68

We live in the country around mostly whites but the kids are in a private school with mixed races and I've never had a problem with this.

My kids are just taught to respect ALL people (including handicapped) from the time they are very young. Plus, since they both went to daycares, preschools, our church mainly that also had people and friends of ours of varying races they are just used to it anyway I guess. It's just never been an issue with us.
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So, your kids are bi- or multiracial? I think that's wonderful if they've never experienced racism or if you've never noticed it directed towards them.

[mommy68]

Originally Posted by Missy

So, your kids are bi- or multiracial? I think that's wonderful if they've never experienced racism or if you've never noticed it directed towards them.

We are a white family. But I've never really thought of it at all but I guess they just see past skin color. They have both always attended our church since birth and that includes white, hispanic, black, any race you can think of. They just don't see "color" I guess is what I should say, because they don't. They see people.

I do remember when my daughter was 3 yrs old she did (one time) refer to a kid in class as "the" brown girl when she was trying to tell me who the kid was she was talking about and I instructed her that it was wrong. She never brought that type of thing up again. My son, however, can talk about a kid in his class or that he met at a camp and refer to the kid by name and I won't know their race until I actually meet them one day myself. I like that. It wasn't that way at all when I was a kid, sadly enough. We all just referred to people as black or white. Did you see that "black girl" or look at that "white girl" over there. I think that's just uncalled for.

[Cajunmomma]

I'm coming into this late, and I'll admit I haven't had time to read the whole thread (I will as soon as I can), and I don't mean to hijack the whole thing....But what can you do when you don't have much opportunity to meet people of other races/ethnic groups/etc? We homeschool here, and there are very few homeschoolers here who aren't white. Actually, it's kind of funny, because my husband is Hispanic but nobody ever thinks of him that as a member of a minority (including me). We have a very diverse population in the city we live in--we have a university with people from many different countries here--but I'm stumped as to how to meet them.

Whenever we talk about it, my kids seem genuinely bemused about why people would judge others by their races. They seem pretty colorblind--but who am I to be able to tell? They're good kids, but are pretty priviledged in the lives they lead.

Can someone help? You can pm me if I'm way too OT.

[~member~]

Originally Posted by mommy68

FWIW, I don't feel that racism was started by white people or any other race. How can anyone know for sure?

Yes, it was. There are plenty of threads on MDC that detail the history of racism/origin of racism. It was created by a white man...I would suggest doing some searches if you would like to know more, as I am not interested in getting into it on this thread, as this thread was created to help 'white' parents actively be anti-racist.

[Missy]

We are a white family. But I've never really thought of it at all but I guess they just see past skin color. ...They just don't see "color" I guess is what I should say, because they don't. They see people.

I guess I was confused...growing up in a white family myself, in a racially diverse community, with friends of all races, I never recognized racism or the impact it had, either.

I think your perspective changes when you lose the luxury of "seeing past skin color."

I do remember when my daughter was 3 yrs old she did (one time) refer to a kid in class as "the" brown girl when she was trying to tell me who the kid was she was talking about and I instructed her that it was wrong.

There's really nothing wrong with your children using skin color as a descriptive attribute. There's nothing racist in saying that a child is brown or in recognizing that someone's skin is different--it's what you do with that recognition that matters. My children are brown; they describe themselves that way. They use a brown crayon when they draw themselves or their father or their grandparents.

[~member~]

Originally Posted by Cajunmomma

But what can you do when you don't have much opportunity to meet people of other races/ethnic groups/etc?
We have a very diverse population in the city we live in--we have a university with people from many different countries here--but I'm stumped as to how to meet them.

Can someone help? You can pm me if I'm way too OT.

You stated the answer right in your post. There is plenty of opportunity for you to meet other people, you have actively chosen not to.
Attend the cultural events in your area, say Hi to a person, they are human beings afterall.
It involves actively putting aside your fears and speaking to others. Introduce yourself, ie-"Hi, my name is....what is yours?"
I am sure you have experience meeting a white person who had different religion/thoughts/ideas than you and yet, you were still able to actively engage in conversation, kwim?

[PennyRoo]

Originally Posted by Cajunmomma

But what can you do when you don't have much opportunity to meet people of other races/ethnic groups/etc? We homeschool here, and there are very few homeschoolers here who aren't white. Actually, it's kind of funny, because my husband is Hispanic but nobody ever thinks of him that as a member of a minority (including me). We have a very diverse population in the city we live in--we have a university with people from many different countries here--but I'm stumped as to how to meet them.


Can someone help? You can pm me if I'm way too OT.

I am white, with a 3 y.o. white DD. I agree that it can be very difficult to expose your DC to a range of different people if you live in an isolated or homogeneous area. If you live in an area that is diverse, however, you are lucky! There are opportunities galore for you if you will only stretch beyond your comfort zones.

Can you look beyond your home schooling social group for social/educational opportunities? I have arranged an exchange with a Latina woman so we can teach one another English/Spanish. I don't really have the $$ for Spanish lessons and have looked high and low for someone (and happily, have finally found her) with whom I can trade language lessons. The best part is (which is what I was looking for) she has a 10 year old daughter who loves little ones, so I can bring along my 3 y.o. DD and we can all interact in eachother's languages.

If your city is diverse, I am certain there are playgrounds full of families of all skin tones. Go find 'em! You may not meet close friends, but your DC will have the opportunity to interact and play with kids of different cultures/races. Do your local kids museums or zoos have classes? I find these types of urban kid-focused classes are full of a diverse array of children.

If your city is diverse, I bet there are all kinds of festivals and celebrations. My city has, among other things, a Cape Verdean independence day festival, an African heritage festival, a Dominican Republic Pride day, a Chinese new year celebration, and on and on.

Ditto with interesting ethnic restaurants and markets. We go to a Cambodian restaurant where much to the delight of the Cambodian waitstaff DD shovels in nime chow and knocks back a soup full of cilantro, red pepper flakes, mushrooms and garlic. She is curious about the shrine they have there and the waiters are very eager to share information with us/her. Through our casual conversations with one friendly waiter, we got invited to see his daughter perform a traditional Cambodian dance with her dance troupe and to a celebratory feast afterwards.

These are not forced, "let's go out and meet the non-white people!" excursions, but rather wonderful adventures and opportunities to explore the rich diversity of cultures around us. Although I dislike living in an urban setting and long for several acres of a self-sustaining garden, I love the diversity of our area. DD is in a pre-school which is roughly about half white. She has friends of all different races and it offers great opportunities for discussion. I absolutely think kids notice color as soon as they can SEE. (DD was verbal from a young age and at 20 months asked me if a very dark-skinned friend of mine had a 'skin boo-boo.') I think it's important not to shy away from kids' use of skin colors as descriptors or to treat that as somehow "bad."

Absolutely agree with many PP who have pointed out that as white parents we get to CHOOSE when and how we will expose our kids to the notions of race/racism - and what a luxury that is. It is a privilege I am painfully aware of and and a responsibility I do not take lightly. We have had a few conversations about who MLK was, and how some people don't like others simply because of the color of their skin, and how sad and terrible that is. I'm not content to teach tolerance - I work very hard at trying to raise a child who is more understanding, more open, more loving, more embracing of differences than I was raised to be.

[BelovedBird]

Mommy68- I really think you need to think about the priviledge you have to "see past" skin color, as a white person.

Going back to reading....

[Charles Baudelaire]

Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies

That is not racism. And I am appalled that you would even suggest that any animal is able to be racist. Race was 'created' by a person, it is not an inherent behavior. Human beings are not born racist, it is taught/learned.

Scientifically, there is no such thing as different races between human beings.

Mama, you're way too smart to have misunderstood me, so let's do each other a favor and play straight with each other. To clarify for anyone who might genuinely have misunderstood, I didn't say "animals were racist." I said, using the example of primates, that racism probably originated in primate behavior. All-out "racism," like other complex and abstract ideas such as "love" or "duty" or "morality" probably evolved from animal behaviors as well, but as with racism, I don't believe animals "love" or feel "duty" or a sense of "morality" in the fullest sense that humans experience or think of those concepts, but we can see the roots or origins of all of them in the way that animals act.

Going back to my example of early humans, I still stand by my original contention that even as early as the overlapping time in which we have both Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals competing for largely the same territory and prey (and probably earlier), we have an example of one group wiping out the other group. I obviously wasn't there, but in what way wasn't this one example of "racism"?

[~member~]

Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire

I said, using the example of primates, that racism probably originated in primate behavior.

How, when they have no understanding of race nor racism?

Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire

All-out "racism," like other complex and abstract ideas such as "love" or "duty" or "morality" probably evolved from animal behaviors as well, but as with racism, I don't believe animals "love" or feel "duty" or a sense of "morality" in the fullest sense that humans experience or think of those concepts, but we can see the roots or origins of all of them in the way that animals act.

Again, racism cannot be found in our bodies as a chemical reaction, such as love. Studies have proven that all mammals do feel love. Ever see the primate mother who carries her dead baby for weeks?? How about the lioness mourning the death of her cubs?

Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire

Going back to my example of early humans, I still stand by my original contention that even as early as the overlapping time in which we have both Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals competing for largely the same territory and prey (and probably earlier), we have an example of one group wiping out the other group. I obviously wasn't there, but in what way wasn't this one example of "racism"?

They did not wipe out the other group based upon erroneous studies to prove they were superior. They did not practice racism, as it did not exist then. They wiped out the other group for many reasons, but none of which were racism.
Please, read the other threads, as I do not want to take away from parents who actively want to end racism. Or we can start a new thread, if you want.