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White Anti-Racist Parents - Page 3

post #41 of 377
Okay, can everyone please, pretty please forgive all of my typos? I just cannot go back and edit them. Thecomputer I'm on is so screwy and slow and this keyboard is SO hard for me to type on so please forgive and pretend not to see okay? :LOL

Also, I did edit one of my posts above to include the white privilege link.

White_feather, I can see what you're saying, and I think we are very close to being on the same wave length really. I think maybe we need different definitions for the different types of racism. I think your focus is individual and my focus is institutional. Does that make sense? I think both are important and both tie together but I think it has to start with the institution (which of course starts with individuals) and knocking down white privilege. I feel like I'm not explaining well at all.
post #42 of 377
A Message to White America
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Strangely, we prefer to blame those who are the victims of our prevailing racism as if they were architects of their own victimization and not us. The insanity and hypocrisy of this is mind boggling.
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The problem of racism rests with those of us who are white - we are the racists, we are the architects of this dreadful disease...
The White Problem
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So often ‘the race problem’ is seen as black people’s fault. But they didn’t create racism – and they certainly don’t benefit from it. Chris Brazier argues that white people should now accept that they are the problem.
post #43 of 377
Mama, I'm sorry if I came across as angry. It wasn't directed at you but at the topic.
I think getting hung up on descriptions of people is unhelpful. It hurts my feelings not a bit when people describe me as white. It's a lot faster than Irish, Scottish, and French American. I feel that it is a topic that is much too emotionally involved, with everybody trying to deny that they judge others.

I have spent a lot of time in states and countries and situations where I have been the only white person, or one of the only white people, and I can say that I know full well what racism directed right at me feels like. People just don't like people that are different. They just don't. Whether they have different political views, or are different races. As I think it was White Feather said, watch the black and asian kids go head to head in the park, it's a wake up call. They don't like each other, which is why they bash each other over the heads with pieces of iron.
Riots, been in them. They suck, and the ones I've been in have always been racially caused. Racism is. As a white person, I've been taught to feel particularly guilty about it, and to not retaliate when I'm called a honky. Not that I don't retaliate, I absolutely do. And I feel even angrier when my anger is met with disbelief and confusion, like I'm just supposed to take it, because I'm "privileged".
I feel the best people can hope for is to cohabitate in the same environment without hurting each other.
post #44 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by termasan
I am pleased to see the discussion of how white parents can take an active role in bringing up the next generation with less racism. Racism is a white problem. Just as you wouldn't tell an abused wife to teach her abusive husband why it is wrong, how to fix it, what makes him the way that he is, etc...it is not up to people of color to fix racism, it is up to white people, those who are in the majority.
This was an intelligent, interesting post. However, I just want to disagree with a couple points, if you don’t mind.

I might agree with this analogy if I saw the world as just “black” and “white” but if that abused wife started abusing her kids, the dogs, or the neighbors, I would definitely hold her accountable (and wouldn’t find much comfort in blaming the abusive husband for the abusive wife’s behavior).

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This country was not built by sheer hard work and enterprising men and women (white), but on the backs of slaves, Mexican laborers (who picks our produce in horrid conditions so we can pay $.89 for a head of lettuce to enjoy a healthy lifestyle?), Chinese railroad workers, etc.
ITA about the questionable way this country was built and continues to thrive. But in the interest of historical accuracy, you might also add indentured servants to the list (largely a group of underprivileged, struggling white immigrants).

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This is why I disagree that we shouldn't openly teach against racism. I don't think that waiting for a situation where it comes up is the best way, rather being proactive. I also think that we shouldn't teach that color doesn't matter (perhaps we can teach that color shouldn't matter, but that is very different), because color does matter, as our history (and some would say even present tragedies) has taught us.
I don’t know if you were referring to my post here – where I said I don’t teach my own son about racisim, but I did want to clarify that I don’t teach him this concept because he’s only 5. There are many issues in the world that concern me deeply, but my goal with my son is exposing him to the good in the world now. When he’s older and more developmentally ready to handle tougher issues, I believe addressing racism and other issues is critical in preparing him to successfully navigate the world.
post #45 of 377
I just wanted to add that the racist and sexist sterotypes on TV are one of the main reasons my kids don't watch it.

Well, it took me more than 20 minutes to get this response through so I don't think I'll be able to participate in this thread again until I get my computer problems figured out.
post #46 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaAllNatural
Okay, can everyone please, pretty please forgive all of my typos?
Ha! Well, at least you TRIED to edit your typos. I just let my glaring typos hang out like dirty laundry. I can't be bothered to fix them. And I can't spell priviledge right either.

Quote:
White_feather, I can see what you're saying, and I think we are very close to being on the same wave length really. I think maybe we need different definitions for the different types of racism. I think your focus is individual and my focus is institutional. Does that make sense? I think both are important and both tie together but I think it has to start with the institution (which of course starts with individuals) and knocking down white privilege. I feel like I'm not explaining well at all.
I don't think we're far off either. The good news is that on this thread, we're all pretty much on the same side (ie. racism is bad). There's just differences in interpreting it, and how to handle it. It's such a mind-bogglingly huge issue that it's no wonder it stirs up so much disagreement and controvery -- but it helps to remember when we're all truly on the same side.
post #47 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by white_feather
I might agree with this analogy if I saw the world as just “black” and “white” but if that abused wife started abusing her kids, the dogs, or the neighbors, I would definitely hold her accountable (and wouldn’t find much comfort in blaming the abusive husband for the abusive wife’s behavior).
I don't think any 'problem' has ever been solved by starting at the bottom. I think most people would agree that if the abusive husband is removed from the scene and all abusive husbands were no longer allowed in society, then the problems of the wife were solved, everything else would work out.

Also, continually shifting blame is exactly that. Shifting blame is not looking nor trying to solve the problem.
post #48 of 377
Back to the OP...

One of the things I do is read really good books to my kids that contain characters of different ethnic backgrounds and who have lived at different times. A few that come to mind are:

Follow the Drinking Gourd by Jeanette Winter

Mrs. Katz and Tush by Patricia Polacco

Who Owns the Sun by Stacy Chbosky (which can be hard to find but VERY worth the effort).

Grandfather's Journey by Allen Say
post #49 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies

Also, continually shifting blame is exactly that. Shifting blame is not looking nor trying to solve the problem.
I agree...and this is exactly what happens whenever we discuss white privilege. People start pointing the finger at every other race and saying "Well, they're doing it too." Let's just focus on white privilege and white racism...for once.
post #50 of 377
Quote:
I don't think any 'problem' has ever been solved by starting at the bottom. I think most people would agree that if the abusive husband is removed from the scene and all abusive husbands were no longer allowed in society, then the problems of the wife were solved, everything else would work out.
Really? You REALLY think that if all abusive husbands were kicked out, then all the wives would cease to be abusive, too? Is abuse so simplistic as that? Or is there something else to human nature that makes abuse and prejudice something a little more endemic – something that crosses all cultures throughout human history . . .

The problem ISN’T being solved by starting at the bottom, and no one has suggested it. Huge changes have taken place in the last 2 generations alone – mostly starting in the middle, and swelling up. Now big corporations and governments have tremendous pressures to make change just to continue to succeed in the world, and so they are. That doesn’t mean there isn’t a lot more work to be done – there is. There are considerable complex institutionalized issues that need to be addressed – such as scholastic achievement gaps, that require more than just “fix it, white man”.

In an abusive relationship, if the couple wants to continue living together, they usually go to therapy. No responsible therapist will tell the wife not to work to contribute to the improvement of the relationship. No therapist will say, “oh well. You’re a victim. You just sit here and look pretty and I’ll make sure you’re husband fixes everything.” If it were that way, we’d call it paternalism. Which, if I remember right, is actually a form of racism. Which English poet was it that extolled the virtues of caring for our little black brothers? Learning to live together is a two way street, and both parties are responsible for contributing (usually in different ways, but still contributing). If they don’t, the whole relationship crumbles.

So, if we want to live in a TRULY multicultural society, we all have to work at it.

Quote:
Also, continually shifting blame is exactly that. Shifting blame is not looking nor trying to solve the problem.
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I agree...and this is exactly what happens whenever we discuss white privilege. People start pointing the finger at every other race and saying "Well, they're doing it too." Let's just focus on white privilege and white racism...for once.
If you’re reading my argument as “shifting the blame” then I’m either not conveying my message well, or you’re assuming something I’ve not stated.

As I’ve said throughout this thread, talking about how white people can teach their kids to be open-minded is a good idea. There are different issues to address. However, I reeled with the comments that took the OP’s question quite a bit further, suggesting that “racism’ is only a white person’s problem” in those words and in others. If someone gets to make such an inflammatory comment, then I get to disagree. My disagreement doesn’t shift blame. It doesn’t say I’m not responsible for making change. It doesn’t mean white people shouldn’t have a conversation about raising compassionate, open-minded children. But, it does mean that we’re ALL in this world together, and we are ALL responsible for communicating, for talking it out, for raising GOOD kids. ALL of us. And to insist that only white people can be racist (in a personal as opposed to institutionalized sense) is anti-social and racist in and of itself. It contributes to the problem, to the resentments, to the negative energy between the races.
post #51 of 377
1). No offense but the abusive husband analogy is just not a good one and is not working so let's let it go.

2). I wasn't specifically referring to you at all with my post that you quoted. However, I think your last post is doing exactly what I was saying.

3). Did you read the link I posted?

4). It's never good when I start responding with a list. :LOL :
post #52 of 377
Quote:
Really? You REALLY think that if all abusive husbands were kicked out, then all the wives would cease to be abusive, too?
Obviously my post was read wrong. I said that the abusive wives should then be helped to no longer be abusive.
The point was to show that without the first problem there would not be continuous problems stemming from the first.

If white people had not created racism in the first place, it would not exist today.

Yes, it is up to white people to end racism.

Yes, non-whites need to be supportive of white people ending racism. That does not mean it is our problem to solve, though.
post #53 of 377
Thread Starter 
Wow! I have been super busy and have not had a chance to read this thread since I posted the question. I am SOOO happy to see so much good dialogue going on. I also feel like my brain is going to pop right open...I think we white people get so restimulated by the issue of racism. It is just LOADED with emotion.

Promise me that despite our conflicts we can keep talking?? I think that is the key to solving this whole issue.

One thing i think needs to be clarified is that racism is not an inherent human characteristic. Absolutely not. As our children demonstrate, to notice differences among us both physical and cultural, is not the same thing as using those differences to oppress those who do not look like us. I think, and there is much evidence of this, that human beings cooperate and love one another, regardless of skin color MUCH more regularly than we hurt one another. Despite what our history books and media show us, just look around you. COuntless examples of love and cooperation on a daily basis.

So where does this enigma come from? I think that the race issue is partly a diversion from the real issue which is classism. It divides poor people so that we are less able to unite and fight for our basic human rights. THere are lots of books out on this...look up Roedigger, his are good. My thinking is not real clear where class comes in so i would love to hear from you all.

There seems to be much discussion around the issue of "cultivating" friendships with people of color. This sounds icky, i know. I think what is important is that it is easy for us white people, especially those of us who live in mostly white communities, to just associate with exclusively white people, thus the images and stereotypes are children witness in the media are not counteracted with real, intimate, human relationships. Now, I am not suggesting we go out and grab the first asian person we see and exchange phone numbers. But i think we take a risk that we will look stupid and silly, speaking Spanish for example (been there) and see what that brings up for us. We are too used to being the comfortable ones. If in the process, and i think it is highly likely, we meet people with whom we feel a bond, then the friendship will naturally occur. Good for us, good for our little ones, right?

More and more i see it as key to my survival as a human being, to break down the walls that separate me from my fellow HUMANs. I simply feel rotten, and not alive when i feel segregated from whole groups of people.

One more thing and i will end this long post. We white people are not raised, do not live day to day, year to year, learning about how to live and survive with racism as most people of color do. Because we are the recipients of power and privilege (it took me a 75 pg paper on WHite privilege to spell it right), it is a non-issue for us until it is pushed in our faces. I was 25 by the time i learned about institutional racism and it was HARD. So here we are trying to figure it out and maybe try to give our kids a clue so they don't have to live their young lives without that closeness and love with all people. I guess what it comes down to for me is not whether or not, but how to talk about it to their developmental level? I know i need to address this with my 3 year old, but what are the actual words? What are the actions?Those of you that posted real examples helped me out alot and i would love to hear more from you.

Lets be patient with one another. LEt's keep talking.
post #54 of 377
We haven't really talked about racism, we just teach by example. We don't surround ourselves with people of color, but when we meet POC, and all people, we are respectful and humble. Our sons knows the history of many ethnicities in the U.S. and abroad.

We have multicultural toys and our daughter has baby dolls that are various skin tones. They know that caucasian women give birth to babies of color, and women of color give birth to light skinned babies. They know this through seeing the world around them, and not necessarily their intimate world.

Isa came home from her grandmother's one day and later we started playing with her dollhouse. We have an African American father, a caucasian mother and three babies of veried skin tones. We also have other adults including a woman of color and a caucasion man. After months of playing with the first couple as a family, she suddenly decided black and white don't match. I wondered why. The reason, grandma said so. It has taken nearly a year for us to gently rid her of this notion. African Americans and caucasions may not match, but they COORDINATE

Anyway, I have ramble, but I hope I have made my point.
post #55 of 377
Thread Starter 
Way to go that you don't just buy barbie for your little one! I think it is really important that our toys are representative of the whole specturm thathumans come in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishygirlsmom
We haven't really talked about racism, we just teach by example. We don't surround ourselves with people of color, but when we meet POC, and all people, we are respectful and humble.
What i'm wondering though is, without real, intimate relationships with POC, how can we say that we are really countering racism and it's divisiveness at all? I don't think its enough to just be nice if we are still essentially isolated from one another. If we are teaching by example, isn't the example then that we behave respectfully and humbly around POC but we don't really deal with having a relationship? That it is not possible? THat there is a difference between us that precludes us being friends? Just wondering what you think.
post #56 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by white_feather
Again, regardless of white power --

There *is* no regardless. You can not separate racism from white power, if you attempt to then it is impossible to really be anti-racist.

Like being anti-violence etc. truly seeking to raise children who are not racist requires some real inner work as well. I would suggest that a parent begin him or herself by reading about racism and white privilege. Some good resources have already been given. I would include http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/~mcisaac...Unpacking.html this. I may include some books if anyone is interested.

America is a white supremacist society, teaching your children to be anti-racist means being truly able to see the myriad of subtle ways racism is enforced and reinforced throughout American culture. It is about so very much more than just teaching your children to see everyone as human beings, because from magazines to television, to simple playground or water cooler culture we are fed the superiority of white standards of beauty, culture etc.
post #57 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmama
What i'm wondering though is, without real, intimate relationships with POC, how can we say that we are really countering racism and it's divisiveness at all? I don't think its enough to just be nice if we are still essentially isolated from one another. If we are teaching by example, isn't the example then that we behave respectfully and humbly around POC but we don't really deal with having a relationship? That it is not possible? THat there is a difference between us that precludes us being friends? Just wondering what you think.

I wish I knew the answers to your questions. We live in an area that just isn't very ethinically diverse. There is a major university here, so we do see lots of ethnic diversity in the student population. However, I just don't see many people my age and my children's age who aren't white. That makes it hard for us to have "real, inimate relationships with POC". As much as I'd sometimes like to, we can't just up and move to a more diverse area. For the record, I grew up in a town of 2000 white Christians. It was a very rural area, but I never encountered racism. I guess if there isn't any diversity, there can't be any blatent racism. My parents aren't the slightest bit racist and I always knew that racism was wrong.
post #58 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahdokht
America is a white supremacist society, teaching your children to be anti-racist means being truly able to see the myriad of subtle ways racism is enforced and reinforced throughout American culture. It is about so very much more than just teaching your children to see everyone as human beings, because from magazines to television, to simple playground or water cooler culture we are fed the superiority of white standards of beauty, culture etc.
I am not white, but do think it does/would help by teaching children that all people are human beings and setting up certain standards of behavior that is extended to every and all human beings. But maybe that is because I am on the bottom, so to say.
I guess, for myself, I do turn a blind eye when we are hurt by racism. Like when we go to the playground and the mothers pull their children away from us and most times just leave. Or the time we went to the beach and within an hour, everyone was gone. Or when we go to the grocery and the baggers argue about who is going to bag our groceries and I usually end up doing it myself.
My children see all of this and worse. And yet I continue to teach them to treat everyone as human beings first and foremost.
Other people of color never react/act that way towards us.
post #59 of 377
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doodlebugsmom
It was a very rural area, but I never encountered racism. I guess if there isn't any diversity, there can't be any blatent racism.
I think they were rhetorical questions so don't worry about it! Actually, I really disagree with the above. This country is highly diverse as a whole. THe fact that POC aren't more proportionately represented in our governemnts, universities, white collar workplaces, towns and neighboorhoods is a problem. The fact that there are places that seem to be w/o many POC living there is the result of very blatant racism. It is actually a symptom of racism when towns and locales are without POC. We Americans have such an extensive history of exclusion and segregation, for example, explicit legislation prohibiting POC from living in many areas. Most WHite people, are not familiar with this history to the point where it just seems the norm that we should live so separately.

A quick story i will never forget. Shortly after the birth of my first child, we moved from Portland,to a very rural, white area of oregon. I was having lunch with an AA acquaintance from school and in the process i started to feel very close to her. At the end of lunch i invited her out to our place. She shook her head and told me she didn't come out that way because people look at her funny. "They look at me suspicious," she said. I was totally rejected and heartbroken. At the time it felt she was saying we couldn't be friends. Since then, however, other friends of color have been open with me about why rural white areas make them feel uncomfortalbe. And to tell the truth, i don't blame them.
post #60 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies
I am not white, but do think it does/would help by teaching children that all people are human beings and setting up certain standards of behavior that is extended to every and all human beings. But maybe that is because I am on the bottom, so to say.
I guess, for myself, I do turn a blind eye when we are hurt by racism. Like when we go to the playground and the mothers pull their children away from us and most times just leave. Or the time we went to the beach and within an hour, everyone was gone. Or when we go to the grocery and the baggers argue about who is going to bag our groceries and I usually end up doing it myself.
My children see all of this and worse. And yet I continue to teach them to treat everyone as human beings first and foremost.
Other people of color never react/act that way towards us.
Great post MITB. I teach my children the same thing. I just can't believe that other people act that way toward you. It makes me sad to think that people are actually like that. I'm lucky that I've never experienced people treating others like that. It would severely piss me off.
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