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Toss her a blanket...  

post #1 of 50
Thread Starter 
We had a training session at my work yesterday. I'm a children's librarian at a public library, and this training session was on early literacy and how library programmes can help with early literacy. For some reason we started out by dividing into groups and each group being given a "typical scenario" that may arise in a preschool programme. One of the scenarios was this:

Quote:
"You have received a few complaints about a mom who comes with a baby and older preschooler to Family Drop in. She usually uses this time to breast-feed the baby and is not at all worried about who sees what. Most of those who have complained are dads who feel uncomfortable around this mom’s lack of discretion. You want the program to be “family friendly” but don’t want the dads to stop coming either."
Okay, I'm not sure what this has to do with early literacy, but that was the scenario. I want to say that this wasn't the scenario that my group was given, unfortunately! Anyway, when the scenario was read out loud, I couldn't believe some of the responses! Bear in mind that this is a room of almost entirely women and, to do the jobs they're doing, they need to have a university degree (a few are "grandfathered" from the old days and don't have a degree), so for the most part this is an educated group.

The group who was discussing the scenario came up with approaching the woman, telling her people were complaining, and asking her to be more discreet. When the topic was opened for discussion, some other comments were:

"toss her a blanket"
"tell her to do that somewhere else"
"ask her to cover up"
"you don't want those dads to feel uncomfortable"
"I was a nursing mother, you can be discreet and still do that"
"she needs to be respectful of the dads"

Whoa, hang on a second! We live in a province that has a breastfeeding policy in place, written by our human rights commission, that you can read here. I was almost speechless! Two or three of us did speak up and say that we needed to tell the complaining people in the situation that she had the right to breastfeed , but most people were either silent, or arguing that she needs to be more discreet!

Anyway, they e-mailed around the scenarios with notes on the discussion today, and this was all that was written about this scenario:

Quote:
•speak to mom in private - tell her that we support her desire to breast-feed, but it is making others in the program uncomfortable and request that she be more discreet when breast-feeding
•make an announcement to the whole group that breast-feeding in welcome
So, now I'm worried that we've just enshrined asking breastfeeding mothers to be more discreet as part of our library policy or something! None of the managers present spoke up about this being a human rights issue in Nova Scotia or anyhing! The more I think about it the angrier I get. So one of my coworkers and I wrote emails to the Preschool Services Manager and the Cultural and Diversity Services Manager for the system, pointing out to them the province's human rights policy on breastfeeding, describing how absolutely horrified we were at the responses from some staff, and stating that we felt really strongly that the library needed to clarify for staff members what the position on breastfeeding has to be according to the law!

I still can't get over the comments from these people that I work with! The branch that I work at is right down town, in an area full of universities and hospitals, it wasn't my direct coworkers that were saying these things--we're in a branch where BF is pretty much the norm and even CD is almost mainstream. I guess I had thought that the whole library system felt that way.

Maybe there was more support in the room than I realised, but those people just kept quiet, I don't know. Only two or three people in the room knew that I was still nursing a 2.5 year old. I'm betting a few probably guessed though, by how upset I was getting.

I think I'm in shock a bit. I know this was just an imaginary scenario, but people were starting to tell NIP complaint stories from the branches they worked in and everything.

Alison
post #2 of 50
Oh, wow!

Y'know, I always try to focus on the mom's feelings in the matter. It is SO humiliating to be "handed a blanket" as if she were doing something wrong. If the staff is soooo worried about the dads' feelings, why not consider the mother's feelings, as well? Are hers less valid?

I'm sorry your coworkers are so ignorant about these issues. They have bought into a shamebased view of their own breasts, and they are eager to please men by conforming to this weird view.
post #3 of 50
Just because people are educated doesn't mean they aren't stupid. I'm sorry this upset you and I hope your efforts to educate your peers pans out.
post #4 of 50
Wow! It's so sad to see the closed mindness that is still so prevelant even among educated people! Congrats to you for working on further educating people! I hope they are receptive of it!!
post #5 of 50
I would have said "well then I assume we'll be sticking to the "cover up" policy with girls and women wearing low-cut tops or tight shirts, since breasts are so offensive."

Ugh. My head would have exploded.
post #6 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightyferrettoes
If the staff is soooo worried about the dads' feelings, why not consider the mother's feelings, as well? Are hers less valid?
good point!!

And, it's not the mother's responsibility to see to the personal comfort of everyone in the room. I read something once that these folks seem to have yet to realize - "There's no such thing as the right not to be offended." They are acting as if they are entitled to change other people's behavior based on their own comfort level.

If I lived near you I'd come put up some flyers from my site!
post #7 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finch
Ugh. My head would have exploded.
Mine very nearly did. I could feel my face getting hot. I decided that exploding then and there wouldn't accomplish anything though. I was one of the more senior people at that particular event, since I'm sorta middle management, and I thought I'd be better off dealing with it when I was calm!
post #8 of 50
Quote:
It is SO humiliating to be "handed a blanket" as if she were doing something wrong.
I'd say "oh, thanks SO much" and use it to wipe the baby's mouth with, and hand it back.
post #9 of 50
I'd work on a clarification of that email if I were you. That would be TOTALLY unacceptable to me (the idea of a library employee talking to me about being "discreet") as a library patron and tax payer.
post #10 of 50
As another children's librarian, I feel your pain. I'm not terribly surprised though, by your colleagues' comments. Generally, many in the library realm that I encounter with those views are from an older generation than myself. I'm not sure about your library system, but IME the ones I've worked for are bastions of traditional, conformed thought. Good job on trying to educate them! That's about the only way you're going to be able to start changing their ideas.
post #11 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmandaBL
I'd work on a clarification of that email if I were you. That would be TOTALLY unacceptable to me (the idea of a library employee talking to me about being "discreet") as a library patron and tax payer.
Oh, I did mention in my e-mail that if they'd asked me to be discreet, they'd have a demonstration of nursing mothers outside and a complaint to the human rights commission on their hands. I think they'll get my point!

Alison
post #12 of 50
That whole scenerio is stupid if you ask me! When has a guy ever objected to seeing a bit of boob!
post #13 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by natashaccat
That whole scenerio is stupid if you ask me! When has a guy ever objected to seeing a bit of boob!
You'd be surprised, it's amazing. I had a guy leave a comment at my NIP site the other day, just full of venom for moms who breastfeed in public (or anywhere, I got the feeling). Clearly he only wanted to see boobs if they were winning a wet tshirt contest or selling burgers. I think he was very young.

I still say I wish I'd had a nursing coverup to pull out if I was ever asked to cover my nursling... a big huge one with a couple of huge, natural, bare breasts printed on it. Then I'd sit and count the seconds til they asked me to please, nurse without a coverup!! :LOL
post #14 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by velcromom
I still say I wish I'd had a nursing coverup to pull out if I was ever asked to cover my nursling... a big huge one with a couple of huge, natural, bare breasts printed on it. Then I'd sit and count the seconds til they asked me to please, nurse without a coverup!! :LOL
OMG! That is the funniest thing I have ever read! I would buy one of those in a heartbeat, just for that one chance to do just that! I bet my ILs would be the first recipients of "boobs in their face". :LOL
post #15 of 50
I understand and agree that we need to focus on educating people so we are not as uncomfortable with seeing womens breasts as food and not as sexual but I also know my hubby is still adjusting to seeing women breastfeed, as this wasn't his norm and gets uncomfortable. I know that he wouldn't stop going to the library because of it but he might move away and I breastfed. I know we have discussed a similiar issue with a mom at our center. We didn't tell her where to nurse or anything but instead asked her if there was anything she wanted us to do...we had a dad that (single dad btw who had raised his duaghter from 6weeks when mom took off) mentioned it was uncomfortable to him. This mom would completely undress her top half and one breast would be feeding and the other was out...I mean no bras or shirt covering it. it was actually uncomfortable to me to see her without her shirt. Mom said she was fine and then we did ask her if she could try and keep the oppossite breast covered. I know some people aren't going to agree with what we said but it seemed to be o.k with her and she admitted that when at home they are very free and tend not where much.
post #16 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by velcromom

I still say I wish I'd had a nursing coverup to pull out if I was ever asked to cover my nursling... a big huge one with a couple of huge, natural, bare breasts printed on it. Then I'd sit and count the seconds til they asked me to please, nurse without a coverup!! :LOL
:LOL Omg, I want one of those.
post #17 of 50
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo : I can't believe that was the response - I'm assuming that these are all people who would be aware of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms? Oh, and the provincial laws that are in place too. Poor you. I would be so offended to be treated like that at a library's 'Family Drop In'. What's family friendly about treating a nursing mother and her children like second class, obscene citizens?
post #18 of 50
Geez, they're just asking for a human rights complaint or a lawsuit, aren't they? Maybe your next education session session needs to be not about literacy, but about the Charter of Rights!
post #19 of 50
That was an awfule experience. Sometimes event he best advocate can find it hard to find their voice in monments like that. Just continue to stan dup for your postion now.

My own personal experience with this-Once i was nursing dd at a resturaunt and (I don't cover up but I do keep my shirt over the boob up to her mouth so you see nothing untill she pops off) and the manager came up to me and said "I know what you're doing here you go." and laid a cloth napkin over dd'd head. I just smiled said thanks and remvoed it as she walked away. I think she actually thought she was helping me b/c i think some people are so uncomfortable with NIP they assume you must be too and you are just being forced to do it by a starving baby.
post #20 of 50
Do they know that that email would be in violation of the Human Rights Code.

You cannot ask or suggest that someone, move, be descreet, use a blanket no matter how politely you do so. It's against the code. I would have taken the opportunity to educate them on the Human Rights Code.

A lot of people just don't know how that works..too bad.
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