Question for those who are NOT ok with your child saying the pledge of allegiance

[Satori]

How do you handle it when they are teaching it in schools? I wasn't much older then dd when I realized I did not believe in what it meant and stopped saying it (and got in trouble for it). I have talked to dd about why I don't believe it but she’s very susceptible to peer pressure and believes everything the teacher says. How do you handle it? The pledge is not said first thing so it’s not like I can just bring her in late every day. I had totally forgotten they make the kids say that thing

[Pigpen]

Can she stand respectfully with her classmates but not say the pledge, or would that bother you? I doubt she'll be the only one either...Maybe you could both go in and speak with her teacher about it, so it won't be an issue that she could potentially get in trouble for.

[Sisyphus]

How old is your dd?? If she's old enough to choose for herself,I'd explain my POV and let her decide on her own.

My ds is 5 and just started K this year. Whenever I volunteer, when they say the pledge, I LOUDLY join in and VERY LOUDLY (LOLOL!) skip the "under god" bit... I'm not big on the pledge, but I don't mind my child saying it... as long as he understands my objection to the "under god" bit.

So, that's how I handle it with my little one and *my* beliefs. I think a lot depends on the age of the child.

Lo

[lisalou]

We were watching the news last night talking about the recent decision and someone said, "Well if they don't like the student could just stand there and not say anything." And my dh shook his head no. When he was in elementary school he was sort of peer pressured into saying the pledge and a big deal was made out of it, etc. Which was hard on him b/c he's an introvert. He not only has problems with "God" being in it but also the idea of pledging allegiance to a flag or country period.

So it will be interesting when dd enters school. I will probably give her the choice after explaining my views and also going through exactly what saying the pledge means. And then let her know I'll support her in whatever she chooses. I think I would be more worried if I knew following the pledge was a 30 minute discussion on who was a patriot and who wasn't as defined by the current administration. But I think I'd like to believe that an on-going discussion at home about this issue and maybe even not directly about the pledge but nationalism overall would help to form and reinforce her values so that if she were too shy to not say the pledge in class underneath it wouldn't really matter. I think I'm a little more prepared to be not too worried about it since both dh and I are introverts and I know I've recited the pledge to just not stand out.

[EFmom]

My 8 yo responds much like the OP's dc. She knows we don't say the pledge and we don't think she should, either. She has heard our explanation of why we don't say it. But it all comes down to peer pressure. I'm not going to forbid her to say it. But I do bring up the subject periodically, and I will continue to do so and I suspect that as she gets older, she probably won't say it.

When I have been in the classroom when it is said, I do not say it, which I think weirds out the teacher a bit.

[flyingspaghettimama]

I agree with others have said - explain your POV and let her make up her mind, even if she doesn't do the same. The reasons you give will sink in at some point...

I was lucky - I didn't say it, but neither did all the Jehovah's Witnesses, and there were a lot of them in my school. While I had my own (unerudite, quasi-socialist, angry teen) reasons, they had religious objections. So there would always be 3-5 students sitting it out in any given classroom.

[bobandjess99]

there was just a court ruling, like a day ago, in which a judge ruled the Pledge unconstitutional, and they are no longer allowed to say it inthe school from which the plaintiffs sued..and if the appellate court upholds it, the ruling will take effect in the entire area where they are from, like 4 or 5 states.....i think this was in CA maybe?, In the west I remember that much....oh my gosh..youll have to google it, i am exhausted and going to drop any minute.....But regardless, she doesn't Have to say it, she can just stand there quietly....and the lawyer who brought the matter up to the supreme court last year, but was turned down on a technicallity, has a new family that is suing, no technicality, and they are pursuing it again, and he is expected to win, which would make it unconstitutional nationally......although with the new changes on the SC, who knows what will happen??

[jordmoder]

this is somewhat of an x post but I didn't see this until now. Our ds started kindergarten this fall, and spontaneously has refused to stand up or say the pledge of allegience. I don't believe he even knew what it was, and was instead showing that he doesn't want to "do what he's told" without his imput, but the fact that he chose the pledge has escalated the situation into something different.

His teacher is awesome. She is not threatened by his independence; however he did have to chose between standing with his class (but not having to say anything) or sitting in the "think about it" place, and I do feel kind of funny about that choice - DS and I did end up having a discussion about intellectual honesty, as he was refusing to do something not because he was making a true choice, but rather a reaction to a situation with which he was uncomfortable. I offered for us to do a study on the pledge and find out why it IS important to some people, but he really didn't want to budge from his stance ... and it WAS right before he went to sleep!

I didn't even know they DID the pledge in kindergarten - but public school is public school, I suppose.

We moved back to this small town (5000+) because it was small and actually open to difference; but I don't know if public school is where we'll end up.

thanks for listening!

Barbara

[applejuice]

How odd.

When I was in high school I was peer pressured into NOT saying the Pledge of Allegiance. It was during the Vietnam War.

In Elementary School, we never said the Pledge, we recited the Declaration of Independence. The monsignior was an old guy who thought the Pledge was too Protestant; he had been a chaplin during the WWI.

[lab]

Cool topic.

Applejuice, the original pledge was written by a minister. It seems the "under God" part was added in 1954, about 60 years or so after it was written. Just FYI, I thought it made sense to share in light of your recitation

Here is an interesting change idea that, according to this web page, may happen in this decade.

'I pledge allegiance to my Flag, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with equality, liberty and justice for all.'

I just edumacated myself some more and realized the author may not be the author.

This web page looks better in terms of factual history.

[cozzensclan]

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I have never saluted the flag. The only way for children to resist the pressure of others is for them to know why they will or won't do something, not just "My mom said not to" or "We don't believe in that." They need to know why you don't support the belief that the flag should be saluted. I went to public school and never really had a problem with my decision not to salute the flag because I was ready to explain my reasons to anyone that asked why I stayed in my seat when everyone else stood and recited the pledge. So I guess my point is that preparation is the key. You must help a child to be ready to answer the questions that will inevitably come whenever they take a stand against something that is generally accepted by all without question. It's a good way to help them learn that everything in life needs to be examined in the light of our personal values, and we should not just accept that if everyone else does something that we should too. If you view it as a positive thing, so will your child.

[Satori]

Meghan,

If your willing to share i'd love to know why JW's don't salute the flag, you can post here or pm me

[lorijds]

In my school, my dds don't say the pledge, either. Weeeellll, one of them has made up her own pledge (and before you all say, ohhh, how sweet or anything, it is a completely crazy, Lord of the Rings pledge that has nothing to do with anything outside of Middlearth; she and her friend say it). My youngest (7) *does* feel somewhat pressured, and we've discussed it. She doesn't feel peer pressure; she wants to do what the teacher tells her. I've explained to her why I don't say the pledge, and why my dh (also a teacher) doesn't say the pledge. I told her I owuld help her speak to her teacher if she wished, but she doesn't want to at this point.

It's her deal; she knows how to get help to solve the problem, but right now she doesn't want to do anything else right now. I'm thinking that when she decides, she'll take care of it herself. I would prefer she let me come to her class and be ther to talk to her teacher, but that's not want she wants right now. Oh well.

I kind of feel like it is a traditional thing, and so I personally wish for my kids to stand quietly with their hands behind their backs, respectfully. That is what *I* do. My oldest dd is 10, and has decided this is not what *she* wants to do. I have told her I disapprove, but that I will let the school discipline her if she gets caught doing her New York Orc Pledge to Sauron and the White Hand . At 10 she is old enough to make that decision and bear the responsibility, I think. If my kids were making some sort of protest, then I wouldn't have a problem with them sitting, or leaving during the pledge. But with a philosophical difference, I think that this is something that, for our family, we just decline to do, rather than protest.

[zinemama]

My ds just started kindergarten and I don't even know if they say it or not. I don't think so. But if it ever comes up, I will certainly explain why I don't think he should be part of it.

When I taught in public school (hs), the pledge used to come over the PA system, and everyone was supposed to stand up and recite along. I stood, but never said it. No one gave me any flack about it, and most of the students thought it was a joke, anyway. (HS students saying the pledge? Can you say UNCOOL?)

Hm...will have to look into this.

[mirlee]

DS is too busy working on his nomination for class clown to even say the darned thing correctly. He makes up his own words and that is just find by me :grin

"I pledge alleigance to the alligator of the united snakes of america..."

[Carolinamidwife]

I have a tremendous problem with minor children pledging their allegiance to anything, especially when it is not presented as a choice. Smacks of brainwashing to me. The "under God" bit just fuels my dislike of the pledge.

What I decided was that I would wait until my kids are old enough to understand my objections. Ds is way too little to understand at this point and if I made a point of telling his teacher I didn't want him to say it he might feel ostracized or awkward about it.

I hope (really hope) I raise the kind of kids who are confident enough to rail against policies they disagree with.

[PikkuMyy]

I'm not into it but don't have children yet. When I do, if it is still legal, then I will speak to them about it, and to their school if the school has a problem with it (the school cannot legally require it of any student.)

The ruling was by the CA courts, and do not apply to anywhere outside of several California districts.

JWs do not salute or celebrate anything but God. That's it in a nutshell, I believe.

[Dechen]

Originally Posted by mirlee

DS is too busy working on his nomination for class clown to even say the darned thing correctly. He makes up his own words and that is just find by me :grin

"I pledge alleigance to the alligator of the united snakes of america..."

Good kid you've got there. :LOL

[cozzensclan]

Originally Posted by Satori

Meghan,

If your willing to share i'd love to know why JW's don't salute the flag, you can post here or pm me

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you! The reason Jehovah's Witnesses don't salute the flag is very simple; we worship Jehovah, not the flag and not the United States or any other country. The Bible says in Exodus 20:5 that God expects our "exclusive devotion". That leaves no room for worship of anything or anyone else.

We also want to acknowledge that the entire earth was created by God, not just the United States, and all people have value in his eyes. Would Jesus take sides in nationalistic ceremonies; would he raise one group of people above another based on where they happen to live? Pride of race or nation has no place in a Christian's life.

Hope that helps explain our stand on the flag salute. Thanks for taking an interest!

[Satori]

Originally Posted by cozzensclan

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you! The reason Jehovah's Witnesses don't salute the flag is very simple; we worship Jehovah, not the flag and not the United States or any other country. The Bible says in Exodus 20:5 that God expects our "exclusive devotion". That leaves no room for worship of anything or anyone else.

We also want to acknowledge that the entire earth was created by God, not just the United States, and all people have value in his eyes. Would Jesus take sides in nationalistic ceremonies; would he raise one group of people above another based on where they happen to live? Pride of race or nation has no place in a Christian's life.

Hope that helps explain our stand on the flag salute. Thanks for taking an interest!

Thank you for explaining, that makes perfect sense to me