What is "an honest effort"?

[MarcyC]

Obviously I've gone to great lengths to nurse DD#2...herbs, prescription drugs, hours on end with LLL Leaders and LC's, hours on end with the ped and my ob. I even had lab work done to see if there was something I was doing wrong of if I had a medical/hormone problem. Now I nurse using an SNS with formula. I can hand express some bm and now that she's starting to take little bites of cereal here and there I am able to hand express enough milk to mix with it (think 'wow, how little cereal', not 'wow, how much milk!' kwim).

But I feel so frustrated when people say 'nursing didn't work out for me' because 'I didn't make enough milk' when they only tried for 2-3 days, kwim? Or when people say, "well, she was just hungry all the time so obviously she wasn't getting enough" when in reality the child was eating every 1 1/2 - 2 hours just like they were supposed to.

The hospital where I had DD#2 was GREAT with their advice. They even told me to expect cluster feeding and one nurse refused to give her formula even when I asked about it (after a long long day and not much to eat I knew she had to be hungry and I asked about syringe feeding or finger feeding and the nurse said NO WAY...wait 24 hours and if she's still crying and your colostrom isn't in yet, then we'll syringe feed...there's more to the story but that's another post all together). So I know there are hospitals, peds. and obs knowledgeable about bfing (I guess I just got lucky w/all 3).

Anyhow, I just cringe sometimes because people honestly think they "tried and it didn't work" when it seems like they really didn't even try. What can be done to help educate these women? Does it need to start with the health care professionals?

And...at what point would you tell someone, "you have done all that you can, you might need to supplement." BTW, when the LLL leader told me to supplement I cried all the way home from the meeting. I called DH from my car and said, "even the LLL leader told me to supplement!"

[a~...Mamacitaa~...]

I can't really offer advive only hugs and if you need a shoulder to cry onplease e-mail or Pm me. Just keep it up and pump lots and lots

[a~...Mamacitaa~...]

how is your babes weight? ahow much are you able to bf? Are you looking into milk donors? Have you try pumping? I know there are a lot of questions,please don't feel overwhelmed

[quaz]

I do think part of it starts with health care workers being educated, mainly b/c that is where many women first go to for advice. I think the other part is formula is just too easy to change to if there are problems.

With my first, my dd was exceedingly tired those first days, so was only nursing maybe 5 sucks before she fell asleep and was highly jaundiced. I was pumping, talked to a LC... the biggest problem was that I couldn't pump much of anything an ounce or two at most, and dd when she did wake would scream and freak when I tried to nurse her b/c she wanted more. This went on for a month and then I stopped.

The sad part is that she started freaking at bottles several weeks later... it took me a week to figure out I needed a faster nipple for her.... she was like this from the beginning... I just couldn't catch up to the supply she needed, at the speed she wanted despite many efforts. Was that an honest effort? I consider it to be. Others would not. My second child, though, is 19m and still nursing. Ironically we had the opposite issue with her... she refused bottles with bm.

So, I think the third part... it's hard to judge another person's "honest" efforts, and I don't think we are in the position to... it's why I think first and foremost the health care and laws on formula need to be worked on. Maybe more importantly, the science community needs to be engaged... if they came up with a 'smoking gun' on how bad formula was, that might be enough to wake people up.

(editted: oh, and I know that there is lots of science out there already, but I mean something that says OH, there is a 90% link between formula and autism, or OH, b/c we aren't extended bfing our children, they aren't getting the fat they need which is why the cholesterol/heart disease at an academic proportion...

Finally one other thought... STATES and GOVERNMENT have to join the band wagon... if people see people nursing it will become more normal...nursing begets nursing and people will 'try' harder.... hard to do when there are still states that don't protect the right to breastfeed, or when the government doesn't regulate formula ads, etc....

The climate needs to be set to help get folks on the band wagon... kinda a 'build it and they will come' mentality. Kwim??)


Tammy

Was that an 'honest' effort. Hard to say.

[wannabe]

I think it's both.

Unreal expectations - Giving formula to a six week old baby who's sleeping through except for one waking to try and eliminate that waking, unwillingness to feed as often as the baby needs to eat (but willing to then pump and feed EBM becasue she feels guilty), that sort of thing.

Also, bad info, or no info - I did a BFing class, but I knew more than the woman teaching it, after a couple of hours leafing through BF books at B&N. She spent longer trying to convince us to BF than teaching us how, and warning of issues (and this was a class of women who had PAID to do the class - hmmm, I think we're possibly PLANNING on BF - preaching to the converted, people!!).

You need to be warned BEFORE you have the baby about things like supplementing, and how to tell if your milk supply really IS low, etc. We were giving EBM during the fussy evenings for a week before I got onto google and Kellymom to find out it was the worst (well, almost the worst) thing we could do. And I'm a highly motivated, info-addict. Is it any wonder half the questions on BFing boards start with "we're supplementing" or "I have low supply", when they didn't have low supply to start with, they just had no idea.

But the info also needs to be given carefully. A friend of mine just had a baby, and was planning on scheduling her the first thing the nurse said to her was "you can't schedule, you have to feed on demand, don't be stupid", which totally put my friend's back up. If she'd handled it more like the other friend and I did when we were visitng her "well, you do realise they can feed very often" "yes, and erratically, too - the first time she fed again within ten mintues of finishing.." "you know the road to failed breastfeeding is litterred with comp bottles" "oh, yes, she nursed all day for the first two days - but it brought my milk in super quick! She'll slow down then". And my not-so-subtle "I know you want to have a predictable baby, but you're not going to live or die on this hill, are you? If you feed her when she's hungry, she'll cry less - if you try to stretch her between feeds you'll spend the whole time trying to calm her".

I just think lots of exposure to what's NORMAL, and what the common pitfalls are is the key.

[MarcyC]

Mamacita - Oh, we're doing fine now! She's 5 months old and at her 4 months check up she weight just over 15 pounds! We're using formula in the SNS, and I've looked into donor milk but it's actually way way more expensive than formula. I'm still producing enough milk that AF hasn't showed up so at least I know she's getting some. The ped. asked how much she was taking through the SNS and I told him 2-4 oz. per feeding and he commented, "well, then she's getting plenty of breastmilk." I was reading a book by Dr. Newman the other day and even he said breastmilk is NOT "all or nothing." So despite the fact that my skin is torn up and bleeding from the use of surgical tape (my poor gals), we continue on.

quaz - funny thing. DD#1 was a lot like your first. In hindsight, I shouldn't have put the effort into it that I did. She's 5 1/2 and still can't get food fast enough. She wakes in the morning and I say, "good morning." And she says, "grrr....breakfast." One night I had made rice krispie treats, but DH wanted brownies so I decided to fix some. Well, DD wanted brownies, but they were in the oven. After the 10th time asking about the brownies and being told they were in the oven and she'd have to wait, she finally said, "oh I will just have a rice krispie treat and I'll have a brownie tomorrow." I thought of our nursing struggles (I just didn't let down and flow fast enough for her) and chuckled. (By about a month old she was on fast-flow nipples!)

[quaz]

Ya know the funny part... dd was like that for the first 6-7m. She was sooo easy going, and then all of the sudden... "WAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!".

That meant she needed to eat, and needed to eat NOW!!! Or 30 minutes earlier. LOL. Everyone that saw it, just couldn't believe it, b/c she gave no, no signs at all that she was hungry until she started screaming. Even now, she still guzzles down 2 full glasses of milk each morning when she wakes... she'd probably take 3 in a row if I didn't put a kabosh on it.

Tammy

[Sharlla]

After 3 weeks of trying to feed (no latching on) and pumping with minimal result (about 1 ounc for 1 hour of pumping) I was no longer producing milk and the DS#1 was losing weight rather than gaining. I think if the WIC office were more BF friendly at that time (access to a hospital grade pump, support from a lactation consultant) or I had been told about LLL and had a way to contact them, maybe it would have turned out differently.

I feel really bad that I didn't get to BF DS#1 and some people may say I didn't try hard enough, but at the time, being 19 and having no support, I feel that I did the best that I could.

[sarahwebb]

Originally Posted by MarcyC

So despite the fact that my skin is torn up and bleeding from the use of surgical tape (my poor gals), we continue on.

Mary, you might do much better with paper tape than surgical tape, and if you practice, you may be able to quit using the tape altogether. I had a hard time quitting the tape, but then once I got the hang of it, it was oh, so very much easier to position the tubing and get going without it. Also, if yo are planning on continuing to use a supplementer, you might prefer a Lact-Aid. Women who use a supplementer long term and can afford the Lact-Aid supplies generally prefer the Lact-Aid. I did, and my cousin who nursed her adopted son preferred the Lact-Aid and actually washed and reused her bags some to save money.

As for your original post, I know that there's some lack of tolerance for the "whatever works for you and your family response" here at MDC, but I honestly believe that one woman's giving up too soon might be another woman's honest effort. I used a supplementer, I pumped for a year, I took herbs and drugs. I saw LCs and OTs and ENTs and LLL leaders and talked to and emailed people all over the country for help. So many people told me it was amazing how hard I worked to nurse my son. For me it was just what I had to do. No matter how upset or tired or overwhelmed I was, I always knew I'd feel worse if I quit trying and went to formula. But I know that many women couldn't do what I did and stay sane or have it be a good thing for them or their family. I would never blame anyone for quitting sooner than I did. I quit pumping when my son was a year, and at eighteen months, he's finally gotten the hang of nursing...but as grateful as I am for our success, I know the early months of my son's life and my family's would have been much better if I had gone to formula...

Sarah