New here - need advice

[dyrud]

I currently use cloth diapers for my 4mo daughter and want to try making some myself. I've been lurking here for a while and have some idea of what I'm going to try but wanted to see what all of you with so much experience think about my ideas and would love to hear any other suggestions that I haven't thought of yet. I've only sewn a bit, but my mom is pretty experienced and is around to help me learn.

The main things I'm looking for are for the diapers to be trim looking like disposables and really simple to use (for my dh's sake!). Oh, and they need to be relatively inexpensive!

(BTW, right now we're using a variety of things left over from my boys. I have some prefolds with several types of covers and maybe 2 Bumkins. My dh really loves how easy the Bumkins are and would like more of that type of thing. Everything I've used is really bulky and now, with a daughter and girls' clothing, some things don't fit well over the diapers.)

I vetoed the basic AIO idea (like the Bumkins) because everyone says they take forever to dry. (The Bumkins are designed so the layers kind of open up for washing yet stay attached.) That made me start thinking along the lines of a pocket diaper? (sorry if some of my terminology is wrong.....I'm new to all this!) but I thought that would be pretty time consuming to have to insert the pockets and then remove them all for washing.

I saw Rowena's "brilliant" idea about just placing liners inside the diaper and really liked that. (If you're out there, Rowena, I'd love to hear exactly how you're making yours.) They're basically like the snap-in ones, though, right, except that the pockets aren't attached? I'm wondering about the disadvantage of just setting the pocket/liner inside a cover instead of actually inserting it into the pocket built into the cover. Could you just put some velcro (or aplix seems to be the preferred choice? - I don't have a machine for doing snaps) to lay liners right into the cover? (Would this cause leaking?) Then you could remove them or leave them in and there would be more airflow when drying? Basically, I could assemble them for my dh to use like an AIO but they could come apart for drying if I wanted (or not if I didn't want to mess with it). Or I could change the absorbency for nighttime, could reuse the cover for small pees, etc. What materials would be best for that liner? To keep it thin yet absorbent?

So I'm thinking of making a cover with a free online pattern. (Any recommendations about which pattern would make the trimmest diapers would be great!) That would just be two layers, right? Would PUL and microfleece be the thinnest choices for fabrics? Or is there a fabric that I could do with just one layer? And then adding velcro to the inside of the cover and making separate liners (shaped like doublers I've purchased before) to attach.

I was also eyeing the poquito pants online for how trim they are, but I'm not wanting to invest in the pattern and it seems that they would take a long time to dry, too. Plus you'd be washing for every little pee.

Whew! Can you tell from all the question marks that I'm rather uncertain about my ideas and not sure what I'm doing!

I'd appreciate any guidance so much!! Thank you!!!!

[rowena___.]

Originally Posted by dyrud

I vetoed the basic AIO idea (like the Bumkins) because everyone says they take forever to dry. (The Bumkins are designed so the layers kind of open up for washing yet stay attached.) That made me start thinking along the lines of a pocket diaper? (sorry if some of my terminology is wrong.....I'm new to all this!) but I thought that would be pretty time consuming to have to insert the pockets and then remove them all for washing.

it's not really--it's no more time consuming than folding other diapers.

I saw Rowena's "brilliant" idea about just placing liners inside the diaper and really liked that. (If you're out there, Rowena, I'd love to hear exactly how you're making yours.) They're basically like the snap-in ones, though, right, except that the pockets aren't attached? I'm wondering about the disadvantage of just setting the pocket/liner inside a cover instead of actually inserting it into the pocket built into the cover.

by "liners" i take it you mean the soakers. the difference between mine and the lay in kind are that i put mine in a sleeve made of wicking material so that it acts as a stay-dry layer. the disadvantage was that since there is no diaper per se, there is nothing to keep breastfed poop from going all over the cover. i solve that problem by laying a liner UNDER the soaker.

Could you just put some velcro (or aplix seems to be the preferred choice? - I don't have a machine for doing snaps) to lay liners right into the cover? (Would this cause leaking?) Then you could remove them or leave them in and there would be more airflow when drying?

i think you could definitely do this, but you'd have to put loop tabs on them so that you could keep the hook part from snagging in the laundry. most people use snaps instead. but instead of going to all that trouble, i'd just stitch the soakers directly into a lining layer, just on one end, so they could still be folded inside the diaper but they could open flat for washing, i think the goodness gracious pattern does this.

Basically, I could assemble them for my dh to use like an AIO but they could come apart for drying if I wanted (or not if I didn't want to mess with it). Or I could change the absorbency for nighttime, could reuse the cover for small pees, etc. What materials would be best for that liner? To keep it thin yet absorbent?

again, i'm assuming that you mean the soaker. anything cotton works well, but i use microfiber towels which hold 7 times their own weight in water.

i was actually thinking on this just this morning--i started out using all cellulose materials for diapers, and have come to the point where i use ONLY synthetics. and i have diapers that don't leak, my child's skin stays dry, and all my diapers wash and dry in one cycle. plus, i can make a pocket diaper in 30 minutes, i can make two dozen soaker sleeves in less than that time.

So I'm thinking of making a cover with a free online pattern. (Any recommendations about which pattern would make the trimmest diapers would be great!) That would just be two layers, right? Would PUL and microfleece be the thinnest choices for fabrics? Or is there a fabric that I could do with just one layer? And then adding velcro to the inside of the cover and making separate liners (shaped like doublers I've purchased before) to attach.

so are you talking about a lined diaper with a flap soaker? or a pocket diaper? for pockets i like PUL and powerdry, that is the trimmest for me, but second is PUL and suedecloth, then PUL and microfleece (i had a brief love affair with athletic poly mesh and i still like it but i'm not in love any more). if you want to make a one-layer cover, you have to choose something that is not plastic on the inside, such as wool, fleece, or sandwiched PUL.

I was also eyeing the poquito pants online for how trim they are, but I'm not wanting to invest in the pattern and it seems that they would take a long time to dry, too. Plus you'd be washing for every little pee.

poquito pants are really for EC and potty training, but FWIW, i change after every pee anyway.

have you seen the album of my soaker sleeves in use?
http://rowena.typepad.com/photos/soaker_sleeves/

these are really trim, ella can wear RTW clothing with them on. most people are very surprised when they see that she is in cloth, they assume since she doesn't have a bubble bottom that she must be in paper.

Whew! Can you tell from all the question marks that I'm rather uncertain about my ideas and not sure what I'm doing!

I'd appreciate any guidance so much!! Thank you!!!!

i fear that i am often not as much help as people want, because i don't do things by the book and i don't spend a whole lot of time working out details--i do things on the fly, and if it doesn't work out, i consider it a cheap education. i have made more diapers than i can count, and i would guess that half of them have not been what i hoped for, but each one taught me something valuable which i don't think i could have learned any other way.

i finally have a system that i am happy with and i credit a lot of that to the help of some friends on the nursing mothers sewing list, because between us all we've made a lot of diapers and have tried out a lot of ideas and we are getting pretty good at working out these kinds of things. robin of the mama bird pattern is originally from the NMSL list, as is catharine who frequents the diaper sewing lists at yahoo. they both have done some excellent research and experimentation and i have benefitted greatly by their experience.

[dyrud]

Thanks Rowena!

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer in such detail!! You've helped clarify a lot of things. It sounds like I just need to jump in and try it out to experiment with what works for us. Count it as a cheap education, as you said.

I appreciate you sticking with me and my lack of good terminology! Yes, the soaker is what I was referring to. Some type of really thin cover with a good soaker set inside (as you said, no diaper per se). I think I will try not attaching the soaker at all and just laying it in like you describe. That way the cover won't have to be washed every single time like an AIO.

I had seen your pictures and how trim your diapers looked, which is why I wanted to hear exactly what you did. The aplix idea for attaching the soaker (which is the only thing I'd want to change from your system) was just so my dh wouldn't have to lay in the soaker himself and it could already be attached. (I know, it's not tough to just set it in there but there's something that just *feels* more like the simplicity of a disposable......) I guess I could stitch some in and leave some out to save on laundry.

I understand better now about covering the soaker with a wicking material. So then you have a "soaker sleeve" that sets inside a cover. So what is your favorite combination of materials for the cover for that? You said what you liked for pockets but I don't think that's what I'm wanting. I'd like some type of cover for your soaker sleeves. Would something single-layer like a sandwiched PUL not be the thinnest? You apparently use two layers and are quite pleased with how trim they turn out. And then I guess the other piece is the liner that you lay under the soaker. I saw your description of that in another thread.

I'm going to get some cheap fabric and play around to find a pattern I like. Then hopefully order some material and get started! Thanks again!

[LeosMama]

Just wanted to make sure you understand that PUL is waterproof, so if you lay it against the baby, the pee will run right off and nothing will flow into the soaker. This will be messy. :LOL
I sew a layer of cheap microfleece (whatever is on sale at JoAnn's) onto my soaker, which is usually two or three layers of microfiber. But if you want to do it cheap, cut three layers of an old towel to soaker size and shape, zig zag around all layers so they won't unravel, stitch cheap fleece onto one layer, then serge (or zig zag) all layers together on one long side. This is like making a book.
This should be fairly absorbant (I have a boy, so I stitched an extra square of flannel into one end of one of these 'pages', b/c boys wet more up front, girls wet more in the middle.) I hope that made sense. So when you lay it in the diaper cover, you just make sure the fleece-topped layer is on top, so the fleece is against baby. This helps her stay dry. You want to make sure the soaker is almost (just a smidge narrower) than your cover, or you will have poopies all over the cover! I also like to make the fanny end wide, like wonderfulls ,to help catch bf poopies.

My microfiber inserts are all 3-layer and they dry fine in the machine or on a line. My 3-layer terry takes a long time, so does 3-layer hemp.

For my toddler (I didn't start doing my own cloth diapering until he was 6 months old, long story), I'm happy with pocket dipes (PUL outer, suedecloth inner) and 4-6 layers of microfiber or hemp. I can use the same inserts (soakers) in the pocket as I do in a regular cover (when all my pocket dipes are dirty), I just lay the fleece toward the baby in a regular cover, and away from the baby in a pocket dipe, as the combo of the fleece and suedecloth makes the pee run off and not get absorbed.

Hope that wasn't too much info!
HTH
-Lindsay

[JLav]

I just wanted to say that I love the Poquito Pants pattern...it is a great shape. It was a little expensive, but I'm glad that I bought it. I've made diapers as directed, and I've made some to my own specifications. I've made flannel fitteds and PUL/suedecloth pocket diapers from the pattern with pretty good luck.

[peekyboo]

I have actually tried just about every style (except wool) of diaper and have come to the conclusion that I AIO's. Mainly b/c my dh never remembers to unstuff the pocket diaper, so I have to dig through the stinky diaper pail one by one to make sure all pockets are unstuffed. Not fun.

Pockets, with the right insert, are really easy. A Joeybunz or microfiber insert, where you have several layers sergered together, are the best in my opinion b/c you don't have to fold or fit, just stick it in there and go. Then when you're done, you just open it up, hold it at the front part and shake the insert out into the diaper pail (which apparently is too technical for my hubby to figure out ) They're traditionally made with a PUL outer and fleece or suedecloth inner. Suedecloth is a lot trimmer than fleece, so if you're looking for trim, you'll want to use that. A free pattern for a pocket diaper can be found here... - it is really simple to follow and easy to make.

AIO's come in all different forms. You have lay in inserts which is self-explainitory. They aren't attached anywhere to the diaper. The downside to this is that my dh always forgets and shakes the insert into the toilet when shaking off poop then comes in to tell me how much he hates that diaper, lol! Then there are AIO's with sewn-in inserts - the insert is sewn in just the back or the front. My husband loves this b/c he doesn't have to find the insert ever. It also makes for quick drying and thorough washing. Then you have snap-in inserts that can unsnap out for washing or changing just the insert if the baby just wets a bit (which means you can re-use the shell part of the diaper, which means less diapers - great for outings.) Then you have AIO's with sewn in tri-folds, where the soaker part unfolds like a prefold, making dry time less. I have no personal experience with those.
Then you have true AIO's, where it's all together, no inserts or soakers that detach in any way.

I love AIO's but I hate how most inserts slide down in the front, where my dd wets the most, so the ones I make will somehow snap or attach in the front or have something extra up there.

Here is a free two-size pattern for an AIO (actually, it's for a fitted, but I'm using it for an AIO pattern) - ottobre pattern - apparently the most recent copy of the Ottobre magazine (which has yet to hit my Joann's) has a pattern for another style diaper that seems to be more of an AIO with an insert of some sort (I can't tell from the very small picture on the site.) Anyway, the diaper pattern I linked is the one I'm trying tonight, with a few little modifications.

I hear the Very Baby pattern is very easy to use and follow, and once you have the pattern, you can go to the site and get add ons to make it trimmer, a pocket diaper, etc. It might be worth checking out.

The other thing to keep in mind is that dry time depends on fabric. Hemp takes for-e-ver to dry, but microcloth dries quickly.

Hope this helps - can you tell I've thought a lot about diaper making? Dh and I actually discuss it - luckily he told me he hates side snapping diapers before I made them.

[musicmaj]

One little tip that I have found.....covers with a microfleece inner will hold a laid in diaper/liner/sleeve etc. very well without them sliding around. Unfortunately I don't have any right now but I have found bummis sww covers to work great with a laid in soaker too.

Here is a little no sew variation on the microfiber sleeve for my toddler. I take a microfiber towel folded in thirds or fourths (depending on how big the towel is) and wrap a gerber flat diaper around it. The flat diaper doesn't add bulk at all, it just covers the towel so that the microfiber is not against ds skin. Since the birdseye flat has a little bit of texture it keeps the insert from sliding around inside the bummis cover.

[dyrud]

Wow, lots of great advice! Thank you all so much.

I like the idea of making the fanny end wider to help catch bf poop. The info about drying times of the various materials is helpful too.

I'm tempted again by the Poquito Pants pattern. Maybe I'll experiment with my own and see how I do. If I have a tough time, then that's maybe the pattern I'll go with. I do like how trim that one looks. I change her so regularly anyway and usually know when she's going to poop, so I'm not as concerned about super full coverage at this point. That might change as she gets bigger.....

peekyboo, that's exactly my concern with the pocket diapers. I'm sure that the inserts will be too much of a headache to pull out each time. My dh works from home and helps out on a regular basis, so I'm trying to keep it really simple. Thanks for the pocket diaper link, though, I hadn't seen that pattern yet and I think anything could be improvised for laying the soakers inside instead. That's nice that you and your dh can discuss diaper making. My dh doesn't care too much as long as we have simple diapers to use!! And I'm going for trim-looking and haven't ever made a diaper before, so I'm just trying to gather as much info as I can.

I really like the idea of using the gerber birdseye flats as the sleeve for the soaker. I already have some of those that I was getting ready to get rid of! I like being able to use things I already have although I think I'll have to invest in some of the materials.

One thing that continues to stump me, though, is how you all find the time! I'm looking for little open windows for sewing and it's tough to find them!!!

[LeosMama]

Musicmaj, This is a good point, about keeping the microfiber away from baby's skin. I always put a layer of fleece or terry cloth between, b/c microfiber will dry out the skin.

[peekyboo]

I keep trying to find time to sew - usually after kids go to bed is my best bet - if I'm not tired at that point :LOL

Yesterday, I thought I had the perfect daytime window of opportunity. Boys were playing Lego Star Wars, Miriam was up in my room watching a Barbie movie, Maura was napping. So I am there, cutting out fabric, la di da...and I think "Weird, this fabric smells like baby powder."

Then I realize it wasn't the fabric.

Apparently the Barbie movie ended, Miriam needed something to do, so baby powdered my ENTIRE room - and herself.

I did find some time to sew later that evening after the kids were in bed and I was waiting on my sheets to dry :LOL

[dyrud]

Okay, probably wasn't funny to you at the time, but that's a hilarious story.

Yeah, I think when my dd gets a little older, I'll have some time to myself again. Right now, she still tends to sleep ON me, so it's a better time for doing things like typing at my laptop, reading, etc. I haven't found a sling yet that I have mastered that allows her to sleep on my back. She's done it once or twice, but not consistently. If I lay her down, we inevitably only get about half an hour before she's up again, and sometimes won't go back to sleep!

[rowena___.]

Originally Posted by dyrud

I understand better now about covering the soaker with a wicking material. So then you have a "soaker sleeve" that sets inside a cover. So what is your favorite combination of materials for the cover for that? You said what you liked for pockets but I don't think that's what I'm wanting.

yes, the whole point of the soaker sleeve was that i wanted to have the stay-dry performance of a pocket, while still being able to use my non-pocket diaper covers. i like powerdry best, it is light and thin and wicks beautifully. next i waffle between microfleece, suedecloth, and athletic poly mesh. all of them do ok but none is as good, to me, as powerdry.

the powerdry sleeves do not slip, bunch, or otherwise move around inside the covers.

(edit: i realized after i went back and read my post that you were asking about the covers--what i wrote above applies to the sleeves.)

I'd like some type of cover for your soaker sleeves. Would something single-layer like a sandwiched PUL not be the thinnest? You apparently use two layers and are quite pleased with how trim they turn out.

actually, the sandwiched PUL is the MOST trim of them all, followed by my wools. i don't use ordinary PUL covers with these soakers because i don't like the feel of the PUL next to the skin, and the soakers leave a lot of skin exposed. the sandwiched PUL is the same knit on the inside as the outside.

the only time i use two layers is when i'm making a pocket diaper.

[dyrud]

Rowena, sorry to keep pestering you.....I think I have it all figured out and then I get lost again. I'm confident now that I understand what you do for the soakers, but I need to clarify on the covers a bit. Sorry to just take all your experimenting and go with it, but I suppose there's no point in repeating it all for myself if you've found what works.....

So you don't use 2 layers for these covers.? You just take one layer of either sandwiched PUL or wool (BTW, what kind of wool?) and then....what I'm thinking seems too simple. You could just cut the shape you want, serge the edges, add elastic and aplix or snaps. Is that it?? Do you make a casing to put the elastic in? Or do I totally have the wrong thing pictured in my mind?

And finally, I'm thinking if it could be so simple, what are the drawbacks? Or why do it any other way? What am I missing here.....??

[rowena___.]

Originally Posted by dyrud

Rowena, sorry to keep pestering you.....I think I have it all figured out and then I get lost again. I'm confident now that I understand what you do for the soakers, but I need to clarify on the covers a bit. Sorry to just take all your experimenting and go with it, but I suppose there's no point in repeating it all for myself if you've found what works.....

So you don't use 2 layers for these covers.? You just take one layer of either sandwiched PUL or wool (BTW, what kind of wool?) and then....what I'm thinking seems too simple. You could just cut the shape you want, serge the edges, add elastic and aplix or snaps. Is that it?? Do you make a casing to put the elastic in? Or do I totally have the wrong thing pictured in my mind?

for single layer covers, i bind with FOE. for pockets, i bind with FOE. and lastly, for covers that have an extra layer in just the wet zone, i bind with FOE.

And finally, I'm thinking if it could be so simple, what are the drawbacks? Or why do it any other way? What am I missing here.....??

i'm not sure--there are always drawbacks to any system, it is just a question of what works for your particular child, laundry set-up, child care givers, etc.

i use all sorts of things--i don't have one system, although i greatly prefer the soaker sleeves above all others. but i am not the only person who changes diapers, and my baby wears diapers in all sorts of situations, so i have different things to suit different needs.

my advice is always to just try something and see how it works out.

you are not pestering me!--i feel bad that i am not explaining things well enough for you. but keep asking, and i'll try really hard to get some pictures online.