Some questions from a future father. - Page 6

[ericisbacchus]

Originally Posted by Frankly Speaking

Or, another thought . . . Are you reluctant to send her here because of this thread? If so, I think we can convince Karen to pull this thread so she won't see it and won't know you've been conspiring with us.

The thought had crossed my mind. Don't close it yet. More in a second...

[ericisbacchus]

Well everyone, more new info...

I don't think the argument last night was so much about circumcision, but more about me always having final say. I should confess, I can tend to always want final say on things...
She overheard me having a phone conversation with one of my best friends (who happens to be pretty pro-circ) and I told him "There's no way our son is getting circumcised. I won't let it happen."
Well, that made my wife feel like she had no say on things. That, and she also seems pretty frustrated with my waffling on our son's name. I just don't feel the need to decide right now. One day I like a name, she falls in love with it, and then the next day I don't like it anymore and she's mad.

So, before we went to sleep last night, and after my post, she relented again. Thankfully.

Also - I found out why her cousin who is now about 25 was circumcised at about 10. Apparently, his friends saw him and made fun of him. I refuted that with the obvious retorts.
Another thing. Apparently her father is intact, but he told her he wishes he had had it done. Her father is a whole different issue (he's basically homeless), but I said to her "if he wishes it was done so bad, why didn't he just go in and have it done?"
So, long story short, I think I got her back in the intact field. It's shaky ground though. I'm positive if anything looks even remotely wrong in the future, I'll never hear the end of it. Oh well, it's worth it to keep our son intact to me.

[nd_deadhead]

Eric, usually it's the Mom who insists that her son stay intact, and the Dad who fights for circumcision! Congratulations to you for breaking out of that mold.

In some of those cases, the wife gives her husband naming rights in exchange for a promise to keep the baby intact. Would you be willing to go that far?


And I agree with you that "locker room teasing" is a pretty lame excuse to circumcise any kid, much less an infant. What if the locker room bully at your son's school happens to be intact, and beats up the circ'ed kids? How can one possibly predict?

When my sons were in first grade, there were two older kids who picked on them for being identical twins. We could have moved one of them to a different elementary school, or gotten one cosmetic surgery so they didn't look so much alike. Instead we help them find ways to deal with bullies (a skill they can use all through school), and reported the bullies to the school, to ensure better adult supervision of that area after school.

It would have been pretty silly for us to start them out in different schools, or have one of them surgically altered at birth to prevent a little teasing (which turned out to be a pretty good learning experience).

[Quirky]

Trade her for the name.

Seriously. Whatever she might choose, it would be a win-win for all three of you.

I can totally relate, BTW - my dh and I have had very similar arguments where my dh is frustrated not so much with my opinion but my insistence at having the last word/final say/whatever.

Just trade her for the name - tell her you trust her judgment on this one and you know you will like whatever she picks.

ETA: I traded my son's name for the granite we picked for our kitchen remodel. I got the name I wanted, he got the granite. We're both fine with the name and the kitchen!

[zak]

oops didn't see your new update!!

[Frankly Speaking]

Originally Posted by ericisbacchus

Also - I found out why her cousin who is now about 25 was circumcised at about 10. Apparently, his friends saw him and made fun of him. I refuted that with the obvious retorts.

Yeah, that sounds more like weak parenting than a real problem. Surgery instead of a round of reason and logic that would have left a far more valuable impression on a child's mind.

Another thing. Apparently her father is intact, but he told her he wishes he had had it done. Her father is a whole different issue (he's basically homeless), but I said to her "if he wishes it was done so bad, why didn't he just go in and have it done?"

Good response! If he had wanted a tattoo, would he still be wanting a tattoo or would he have a tattoo? I suspect that in reality, he may wish he was circumcised because of the cultural influences of his time but I also suspect that it really never was that much of an issue and he didn't really want it that badly. The cultural influences have gone topsy turvy in just the last few years with more and more men not wanting the circumcision that was "generously given" to them and you can expect that trend to continue to grow as the men realize what happened to their sexuality. Her father has options. On the other hand, me and millions of other men have had our options taken away permanently.



Frank

[Paddington]

Originally Posted by Quirky

I can totally relate, BTW - my dh and I have had very similar arguments where my dh is frustrated not so much with my opinion but my insistence at having the last word/final say/whatever.

my dh and i have this too. what can i say? i like to be right....

maybe you should keep this pretty low key for now. keep it on the you win side and maybe not say much about it for a while--but get your arguments and info together just in case, she changes her mind again.

congrats again....

[ericisbacchus]

Yeah, I'd trade the name for leaving him intact.

[PuppyFluffer]

I am glad you are getting to the bones of the arguement. Often, the topic at hand is not the end of the issue. We often don't argue about what we are arguing about if you know what I mean. In this case, it sounds like a control issue. I am glad she has been able to talk to you about what the issue was with her reconsidering the circ you had both decided not to do.

And should you need this thread removed from the board please send me a private message.

I would strongly advise your wife to join the board. The breastfeeding help here is wonderful! And the birth stories are very empowering. Best wishes to you on the arrival of your baby!

[TigerTail]

Originally Posted by ericisbacchus

Yeah, I'd trade the name for leaving him intact.

you are going to be a good dad. and congrats!

susan, mama of two happily intact jewish boys

[Paddington]

Originally Posted by suseyblue

susan, mama of two happily intact jewish boys

OT: Susan, is is possible to send me your story? I would love to know how you came to the decision to leave your boys intact.

[TigerTail]

acp, there was no decision involved. i was one of those dictionary-reading kids in grade school, read the definition, said, 'holy %$#@!' (or more likely 'oh my gosh!' at that age, lol) & that was that. it was quite obviously a horrific procedure that i knew i would never inflict upon anyone & would fight till the day i died.

(though it was nice to come across 'mothering' twenty years ago & find more official support for my position than experimenting as a teen & finding out, 'oh. ok. that works better.' )

marrying a jewish man- well, he is an intelligent man. once we discussed having children & what circumcision entailed, he agreed that the cycle would end HERE. we don't hurt babies in our house; god gave them to us to protect.

(a 'what if' to throw out there- what if i had been afraid of offending his cultural sensibilities by bringing it up? i am glad that our babies' health & penile prosperity were more important than say, worrying about freaking out grandma. who, incidentally, is too busy being a loving great-grandma to dwell on the state of their genitals.)

hope that helps (i wish for the sake of a good story there was more drama than my being a born intactivist- i might be more understanding of my friends here that came by their knowledge the hard way, though i try- but i suppose there is a place for in intactivism for those of us who first heard about it & . hmmn, then again maybe it was reading 'black beauty' and being appalled at the ear-cropping... )

susan

[Paddington]

as this has been a recent argument i have been having with a friend--who won't consider not doing it--i am happy to know you susan!

[jenP]

Originally Posted by suseyblue

then again maybe it was reading 'black beauty' and being appalled at the ear-cropping... )

susan

...saw a puppy at the park the other day with bandages on his ears. DD was appalled when I told her why. What hope is there for dogs if people won't even consider not cutting their own son?

Jen

[birthdancedoula]

Originally Posted by ericisbacchus

Yeah, I'd trade the name for leaving him intact.

I just want to say, way to go for taking a stand to protect your child.

In all honesty, I wish I did not have to say 'way to go' to anyone choosing to spare their child the knife. I wish that one day all circ'd expectant fathers find the courage, as you have, to stop the cycle of performing surgery on the smallest, unconsenting patients just so "he'll look like daddy." I wish that men will one day find their voice and have the balls (pardon my reference) to protect their sons, their bodies, and their sexualtity, and no longer allow needless surgery to be done for no other reason except ignornace.

I sincerely hope you won't stop your intactivism w/ your son. Keep talking about the harm circumcision causes and what men are missing. I think it goes a long way when men hear it from other men.

Best of luck to you and your wife for the birth of your precious baby.

[trmpetplaya]

Great thread! Ya know... I just thought of something. Maybe all the circ'd fathers of intact sons should get together and write a book about why they are glad that they have intact sons and how they were convinced to leave their boys intact.

I mean... how many mamas here have circ'd dhs? Most, right? It's a book that could help a lot of Fathers who are on the fence about the issue. Just other dads' reasons for not mutilating their babies. It could be pretty powerful...

Eric, I'm really glad that your wife seems to be coming around again and definitely way to go for protecting your son! You're already a great dad

love and peace.

[No2Circ]

Originally Posted by trmpetplaya

Great thread! Ya know... I just thought of something. Maybe all the circ'd fathers of intact sons should get together and write a book about why they are glad that they have intact sons and how they were convinced to leave their boys intact.

I think my dh would be willing to participate in that.

[ramlita]

Mine too!
We had such a touching series of conversations about circing when we were expecting our first...He hadn't thought much about the subject until then, and his thoughts and feelings about what happened to him and how it may have affected him were very moving.
I'm getting teary-eyed thinking about our baby boy growing up and hearing about circumcision for the first time- and hearing that his own Papa went through it.

Originally Posted by suseyblue

we don't hurt babies in our house; god gave them to us to protect.

I love the way you said that.

[TigerTail]

thank you

it just seems so obvious to me. why cut pieces off a perfectly good baby?

susan

[BethSLP]

Since she had that experience of a cousin being made fun of, I think she'd also benefit from hearing that very few people do it now.

Its not like when we were young and EVERYONE was circ'ed. There will be intact boys in your child's playgroups, locker rooms, etc.

To me, this is important. Clearly being ridiculed is not a reason to mutilate genitals, but people DO worry about this. And it was a big load off my mind to find out that times are changing! YAY!!

Congratulations on your DS!
XOXO
Beth

P.S. I dont like THE KNOT and the THE NEST because they are so disorganized. Here you can have an actual coherent conversation over a period of days. Those message boards are a MESS.