Two Towers - SPOILER Thread

[Goosefeather]

Ok, I thought we should have a separate thread for discussing in more details our enjoyment of the movie without spoiling it for others who haven't seen it yet.

So if you haven't seen the movie and don't want to know what happens DON'T READ FURTHER !! CLOSE THIS THREAD !!!

[Nankay]

I know I posted this on the 1st Two Towers thread, but...I was sooo disappointed in the movie. I KNOW books get changed when made into movies, but they did a good job not doing too much with the 1st movie I had high hopes witht he 2nd one. What's with Frodo going with Faramir (?) and the scene with him and the Nazdul?? The book wasn't exciting enough initself? They better have the spider scene, not to mention the showdown between Gandalf and Sauraman at the beginning of the 3rd book.

Grrrr...

[Goosefeather]

oK. so here it goes : I went to see the movie last night in a very
full theater and the movie starts. I'm munching on my popcorn, NOT drinking the pop my dh bought cause I don't wanna leave that seat until the movie finishes :LOL

So after very annoying and stupid ads, the previews that told me I would not be returning to the movies for a while, the movie starts.

So I'm there, enjoying until I come to a scene that po's me :

- Aragorn goes over the cliff !!! My dh and I look at eachother is disbelief...but not too much, we know he's gonna live :LOL
- Then, po'ed again cause I miss the part that he wakes on the beach cause I had to leave my seat to go to the bathroom, full of the pop I DIDN'T drink. ...

- After that, I'm annoyed the King Theoden is such a whimp. In the book, he is a brave King, full of grace and determination and I thought it was important to the story.
:

- Then the army of Elves arrives and I hear my dh go "what the H....!?!?" I pretty much have the same reaction :LOL

- And finally, what angers me the most is Faramir personnality change. Faramir is a good man ! He is not is brother Boromir. He let Frodo and friends go, he didn't bring them to Osgiliath in the book. I think it is important, and whatever you do to a movie version of a book, you can change the length of certain scene, change little details that don't really serve the story but you should never change a character's heart, his wisdom, his personnality.

So I'm angry. And disappointed. Of course, I will buy the DVD, and I will watch it a zillion times at home when it comes out...I just wish I could feel the same kind of excitement I felt after seeing the first one.

Is something wrong with me ?? DON'T ANSWER THAT !! :LOL:LOL
I KNOW the answer

[Nankay]

oh, I soooo hear ya baby! I agree on every point!!!

[Goosefeather]

You do ?!?
aaaaaahhhhh !
I suddenly feel so normal :LOL (but I know it shall pass )

[Goosefeather]

I know what you mean...
That's why some people I know never read the book if they know a movie will be made about it. The read it after.
When you read the book after, the things that weren't included in the movie are like bonuses. So that's cool.

But I love to read and the way we imagine and build the book in our head is a very big part of the pleasure I think...

[Greenfrogs]

The only part I did not like is why they did the detour to Osigorath. It was an unnecessary change. I remember in the book that King Theodan was a bit wavering although brave. There were a few other inconsistancy that I did not like. However, I separate the book and the movie. Books by their very nature have more time and can have many more digressions and details. It is difficult to capture the digressions and details in a movie. Dispite these obstacle I think Jackson did a very good job giving you the feeling or point of the second book. With that the details are less important. I really like to way the gollum is portrayed the animation is spectacular and the dialogue he has with him self is done very well. That seen is not specically in the book, but the idea is there gollum struggle with smegal and finally gollum winning. I also like the scenes of the woman in the caves, the fear on their faces. This is something that is not in the book in any great detail. Especially the scene where the young boy is taken from his mother to go and fight the orcs. The expression on his face is heart wrenching and brought me to tears. As for the spider scence I suspect that will be in the next movie. Jackson is not exactly following the beginning and ending of each book. I do not mind this because Tolkien himself want the book published as one novel rather than a trilogy. Having read it, it definintely is not like most series book in structure where each book can stand on its own. The entire trilogy is one story.

In summary, I really enjoyed the movie. I do not believe in the movie is never as good as the book arrogance. The two are different medium and need to be evaluated on there own merits.

Flame away

[mirlee]

Originally posted by Nankay
I know I posted this on the 1st Two Towers thread, but...I was sooo disappointed in the movie. I KNOW books get changed when made into movies, but they did a good job not doing too much with the 1st movie I had high hopes witht he 2nd one. What's with Frodo going with Faramir (?) and the scene with him and the Nazdul?? The book wasn't exciting enough initself? They better have the spider scene, not to mention the showdown between Gandalf and Sauraman at the beginning of the 3rd book.

Grrrr...

For a second there I thought you had channelled my dh! That is exactly what he said.

Mir

[JessicaS]

I was pretty shocked when I heard about what they did to Faramir. That is completely out of character for him. He knew what Frodo had and wanted no part of it and was sad his brother had fallen to it...

What a bunch of crap!!

The split into three novels was made by the publisher, Tolkien never really liked them splitting it up and he didn't get why the second one was called The Two Towers anyways..

I have a book of letters written by him and he names at least four seperate towers which are involved in the plot at some point..and then wonders about which two it could mean..LOL

[Goosefeather]

That seen is not specically in the book, but the idea is there gollum struggle with smegal and finally gollum winning. I also like the scenes of the woman in the caves, the fear on their faces. This is something that is not in the book in any great detail. Especially the scene where the young boy is taken from his mother to go and fight the orcs. The expression on his face is heart wrenching and brought me to tears

Yes, that was great...
Although it made me think of something else I noticed :LOL

Isn't Hamma and his son from Gondor ? Not Rohirims... I mean to look it up but keep forgetting.
I understand they need to change things in order for the movie to
work but I just wish I could understand the nature of some of
them...That's why I didn't critize the first movie, I understood every reason behind them...maybe the third one will explain more of their nature....

[JessicaS]

??? Hama is from Rohan but the guy with the son is Beregond and they are from Gondor..

I haven't seen the movie yet but Hama is listed in my Tolkein encyclopedia (nerd check) as being from Rohan and dying at Helm's Deep.

[Goosefeather]

aaaaahhhhhh !! that's it !
Thanks abimommy

[Viola]

ROFL, the sounds coming from my husband's seat when Aragorn went over the cliff and when the elves appeared was priceless. The elves was my husband's least favorite part. That honestly didn't bother me, because I had always hoped in the book that elves and especially dwarves would show up to kick some butt.

The portrayal of the Ents as idiots that had to be tricked into helping bugged me.

Gimli was used as comic relief a bit much. It was funny when he was up on the wall, but when he was tossed, well, yeah, that seemed hokey.

My husband felt like the elves coming was completely ludicrous and pointless to the plot, especially since they came from Rivendell isntead of Lorien. There should have been more than 300 men there, but since there weren't the elves did serve a purpose in the film, in my opinion. But the fact that there were so few people in Theoden's kingdom, what was the point of that? The women and children, instead of being sent to Dunharrow were sent to Helm's Deep. They were facing 10,000 Orc with only 300 men, but that just drew attention to how the full grown women were sending their young sons and doddering old dads out to fight while they were hiding. I know that Tolkien didn't have any women other than Eowyn fighting, and they weren't trained in combat, but this visual bugged me. At least in the book they weren't there, so it wasn't an issue. That didn't bother hubby at all, but then they only showed like 20 women and a few kids--Theoden was a king of a ragtag bunch. But I guess you can't make those films with 50 thousand extras anymore.

The secondary characters all just seemed spineless. Treebeard, Theoden, Faramir. Faramir was not supposed to be as weak as his brother, but that's exactly what happened. Plus, he wasn't as good looking at Boromir, doggone it!

Our friends like the movie, and liked the fact that Sam and Frodo ended up at Osgiliath because it was a way to introduce the men of Gondor in a different way, and have some different scenery. But they mostly seemed to be manhandling Hobbits and hiding from the Nazgul under their shields.

Shelob will be in the next movie, but I guess they decided to leave that part out and do it all in the third installment which isn't a bad idea, I don't think.

The part with Arwen was kind of boring to me, so I didn't really see the need of it. I assume that the reason that the whole attack with the Wargs was so that Aragorn could have this sort of dream sequence thing with Arwen. And I guess it made the movie more exciting, to those who aren't familiar with the book. I tried to keep an open mind about the plot stuff, but I really didn't like the way some of the characterization of the people was changed.

Then when Sam was saying "We don't belong here" my husband blurted out, "No, you don't!" ROFL

[Viola]

Originally posted by Greenfrogs
I also like the scenes of the woman in the caves, the fear on their faces. This is something that is not in the book in any great detail.

Interesting, because this was what I didn't like. I felt like they just looked like sheep waiting to be slaughtered.

Especially the scene where the young boy is taken from his mother to go and fight the orcs. The expression on his face is heart wrenching and brought me to tears.

Yes, the scared children did touch me, I will admit. But I was thinking how I'd want to have some sort of weapon so I could take my own life and that of my child instead of letting the orcs come down and dismember them and me.

The fighting in general, well, that is about par for the course with the book, but Aragorn jumping off the wall into the Orcs, then showing up later back on the wall--I dunno--a bit of stretch. Those pikes looked like nothing I'd want to jump into. There seemed to be a lot of those scenes, but what I remember from the books (and I will admit I remember very little even though I read it only 8 months ago), Legolas, Gimli and Aragorn were getting into various battles and then comparing kill counts later. I remember even then thinking it was luck they weren't killed themselves, so I can deal with it in the film.

[Viola]

Also, I've been wondering, why couldn't the American actors just use their American accents? They seemed to need to fake a British one, but didn't necessarily do a great job of it. I mean, they weren't bad, I suppose, but they sounded nothing like Merry or Pippin. I figure in Middle Earth, who knows what kind of accent you would have anyway, but I guess they needed to blend in with others better.

[AmandasMom]

I have yet to see any movie that is exactly like the book. I'm so tired of hearing people complain about how the movie didn't do this or didn't do that when compare to the book. Forget about the books for a moment and look at the movie!! The movies are brilliant and they come alive, they captivate you! Yes, there are parts that are changed, parts left out, parts that just don't go with the movie you have in your imagination from reading the book. Take a look at the movie!!!

Honestly, the books are so intense, so full of intricate detail, so full of history, that if someone did put all of that into a movie, it would bore and would confuse the average movie-goer.

The job Jackson has done making these movies deserves the Acadamy Award this year, as he did last year but was looked over for some forgotten movie that no one talks about or thinks about anymore.

And really, what is better then a 20ft high Viggo in your face for 3 hours???

[Viola]

I usually wait to read a book before I've seen a movie, and I actually didn't read the LOTR series until after I saw the movie last year. I sat back and tried to enjoy this movie for what it was, but it's harder now. Maybe we can rename this the "bitch about how the movie differed from the book" thread since we need to get it all out. :LOL

[Viola]

Originally posted by AmandasMom
Forget about the books for a moment and look at the movie!!

I think it is almost impossible to separate the two at times. I know movies are a different art form and have to do things differently, but there will be the inevitable comparison when the movie seems to deviate only for the purpose of making the movie more financially successful based on what the filmmakers think will draw viewers into the theater. Of course, getting people to come to the theater just so they can see what has been changed might be one tactic. My husband has always felt like Arwen's role was expanded because the filmakers felt the movie needed more of a love interest angle. I don't necessarily think it was a bad idea, although in this movie I felt myself watching Liv Tyler and thinking distracting thoughts. Along the lines of, Wow, her nose seems short, did they shorten it for the movie? OK, she's got big, pointy ears, but her nose looks like it has no swoop to it. No, they wouldn't have truncated her nose just for effect. Is it just me, or does her nose seem weird to everyone? I don't even think she could wear glasses, they'd just slide right off her face. Of course she'd probably just wear contacts anyway. Oh, from that angle it looks better, but look at Viggo's nose--it seems like a real nose. OK, I thought other stuff too, and actually turned to look at my friend's nose and my husband's nose while thinking all this stuff.

Sorry for getting off track here. Anyway, I do wonder when things are changed is it for cinematic effect and trying to convey something, or is it because the film makers want a chance to rewrite things a bit. Hey, if it were up to me, I'd have had the dwarves there fighting.

The film version of Jurassic Park deviated from the book, but I didn't mind the changes and felt like the movie was almost better in some ways. I did mind some of the changes here because I felt like they detracted from the story, and I guess I'm mostly thinking of Faramir here.

As far as the movie for itself goes, I'm having a hard time judging. There were things I didn't really care for, but I enjoyed a lot of it, even things that were clearly different from the book. I didn't have the same feeling of excitement I had when I saw the first one, and I'm not sure why. I remember reading the book and just loving it, but part of what I loved so much was Tolkien's way of turning a phrase.

I did like the way things were rendered with the Sam, Frodo and Gollum scenes up until the time they were taken hostage by the men of Gondor. Gollum/Smeagol reminded me of someone, I don't know who--maybe one of my old aunts. There was just something familiar about him. There were some young children (2 or 3 years old) right behind us and they seemed to really like the Gollum character.

Helm's Deep, I'm not so sure. I think part of it is seeing the movie in trailers and anticipating it, then when I see the whole thing it is just not as charged. The battle scene just didn't excite me all that much. I'm not sure what I would have liked to have seen, however. Anyone else have any thoughts regarding the battle?

[Viola]

Oh, and I loved seeing the Ents destroy Isingard!!!

[Goosefeather]

Originally posted by AmandasMom :
The job Jackson has done making these movies deserves the Acadamy Award this year, as he did last year but was looked over for some forgotten movie that no one talks about or thinks about anymore.

I totally agree with you. The oscars last year really po'ed me...

Originally posted by Amywillo :
I felt myself watching Liv Tyler and thinking distracting thoughts. Along the lines of, Wow, her nose seems short, did they shorten it for the movie? OK, she's got big, pointy ears, but her nose looks like it has no swoop to it. No, they wouldn't have truncated her nose just for effect. Is it just me, or does her nose seem weird to everyone? I don't even think she could wear glasses, they'd just slide right off her face. Of course she'd probably just wear contacts anyway. Oh, from that angle it looks better, but look at Viggo's nose--it seems like a real nose. OK, I thought other stuff too, and actually turned to look at my friend's nose and my husband's nose while thinking all this stuff.
.
Gollum/Smeagol reminded me of someone, I don't know who--maybe one of my old aunts.

:LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL

That is soooo funny !!!!!

I did mind some of the changes here because I felt like they detracted from the story, and I guess I'm mostly thinking of Faramir here.

Yes, for me, that is the biggy. I thought that Faramir was so decent and honest...it would have been nice to see that in the movie. The third book explains why the two brothers are so different...I hope the writers will include that in some way.

And for my part, Faramir is better looking than Boromir
:LOL:LOL