Financial healing

[ladylee]

It seems like a very appropriate time of year to talk about this. I have some financial issues I'd very much like to let go of--is anyone else interested in forming an informal, but intensive support group?

For myself, I went through many years of very lean times (I lost my job back in the 80's recession and had many difficult years after,) and now that has changed a bit and I find myself faced with irrational fears about losing money again. I work on letting go of these fears, trusting the universe, and allowing myself to accept abundance without feeling guilty. But the season is triggering many emotions in me.

For example, I have been scared to go to the ATM for fear the money won't be there. I know.

Anyone interested?

[Envision]

I'm in!!

Hi Ladylee,

What a great idea.
I have so much work to do in this area...but am open to see what I can handle working through...

I stay home with ds and dh's salary only makes ends meet...my parents help us every month plus we usually get surprises (thankfully!!) so we are "making" it..

But I do want to change my thinking so that I can fully accept all the abundance that is rightfully mine and because of my guilt (of my parents help) and feeling like I should "toughen up" and go and get a job (leaving ds at a babysitter...gasp..)
I am not accepting what is truly meant for me.

All that to say, that I would love to hear and chat about this issue!!
You start such good threads!!

Oils

[Momtwice]

YES! YES! YES!

(Picture When Harry Met Sally...the diner scene...)

All you have to do is read my posts in the Manifesting thread to know this is a (the) major issue in my life.

I just read Kezia's thread about asking for help figuring things out...and the link to the definition of codependency threw me for a LOOP

It came from a book called Codependant No More? By Beattie?

It was a real eye opener for me. I answered yes to many of the questions.

I've had that worry at the ATM too lately...I agree the holidays bring garbage up...

[Elismama]

count me in

I grew up poor- single parent household, dad died at 7 so no child support, working class family. For a while Mike and I were both making decent salaries, we both have masters degrees. Life was pretty easy, albeit simple. Then we got pregnant. We paid out of pocket for a homebirth... and now we just get by on his salary and my consulting. I love being at home with Eli, but I hate worrying about finances.

If the car makes the slightest off noise I become convinced that it will break down in 2 minutes and cost $10,000 to fix. I also have home hypochondria- when we recently sprung a leak in a pipe I was sure the whole house would need new plumbing. In my mind the bill would total thousands, it actually cost $55.

I spend way too much energy worrying about how to pay next years bills, or what will happen if my consulting work dries up, or how we will ever afford to retire.

Please help me folks= I could use some inner peace in this area.

Oh, and Lee- I have done the ATM thing too.And your right, this time of year is always the most stressful for me, even when we don't overspend.

-jeanie

[ladylee]

Good! Let's do it. I'm tired of feeling this way. Just by focusing our attention it will happen. I'm of course more concerned about the spiritual/internal aspects than the external/materialistic aspects--what money/abundance symbolizes and how it's connected to one's sense of self-worth. I want to remove the fear I have placed around it--specifically the fear that it will be ripped out from under me. That is definitely a childhood dynamic that kept repeating itself--no longer do I manifest it in reality, but I still *feel* it inside.

I know Momtwice has some great affirmations in this area (yes, Melody Beattie is the author of CNM,) I have some as well from people like Caroline Myss, Suze Orman, etc. Maybe we can all bring things we discover and share them with each other to keep us inspired and motivated.

Good luck overcoming!

[Envision]

great!!

Self-worth...yeah!!

I know that I stuggle with the thoughts that people will accept me more if I have the right clothes, dishes, furniture...it borders on the ridiculous. I actually just went out and bought new cutlery so that I could stop feeling embarrased over our "everyday set"...I should be focusing on my trip to Cancun, x-mas and family and instead I am worried about what people are thinking about my cutlery...AND to make matters worse, we are not even having people over for x-mas this year...so who gets to see them????

I have been truly blessed, fulfilled, I don't know what you want to call it...yet I still have this poverty mentality...I really hate it and really try and realize that we are not poor, we just don't have extra money for things we don't really need, we just want.

I am going to go and get my Suze Orman book out right now to do a quick refresher..

I have also been reading The Power of Now and that has helped me tremendously look at my life in the now instead of "how am going to pay that bill two weeks from now.."
I am so pre-occupied with "what are we GOING to do" that I lose out on the moments that are happening right in front of me!! Which for me takes away much of my self worth because I don't feel like I am giving 100% to my family and that is an icky feeling...

I'm so excited about this thread...I love growing and changing!!

Oils

[ladylee]

So, I have a question. Have any of you internalized money as a symbol of power and freedom? Attached it to being needed for a sense of security? Does the lack of it prevent you from leading the life you really want? I know I can intellectually deny these because I "know" better, but on a subconscious level I know to a degree I'm still programmed that way. And I think the challenge to not believe these things has been put in front of me again when I became a sahm.

The lesson learned when I lost everything was that things *are* possible without money as long as one's sense of self-worth is intact. I need to reconnect to those things I learned.

[Lucky Charm]

I also have issues. i havent slept in what seems like years because i am so paranoid about money. and no, i didnt have some awful childhood where i ate pancakes for 2 weeks and had the house foreclosed.

i literally toss and turn at night going over figures in my head. we have enough to make the house and both car payments, utilities, credit cards etc. i live in a beutiful home in a great neighborhood and we have 2 new cars in the driveway (oh yeah now that i dont have the huge repair bill fear on the cars, i now am terrified of 2 carpayments). my youngest son goes to private school. i have so much to be thankful for, and yet all i do is worry. i work to days a week, and if i had to can work more to pick up the slack should the need arise. i do not use childcare, as my husband works m-f and i work weekends. i have never ever had to borrow money in the 16+ years dh and i have had a home together. the only thing i have ever gotten since i have been on my own, is this computer. when i decided i wanted to be a NP, my mom and brother built it and my mom bought it and had it shipped to me.
part of the reason i work is because i am so paranoid. dh and i have been together 21 years, and still the thought of being trapped in a relationship because of money and not having the ability to generate an income drives me. i mean, have you seen some of the threads on this issue? women in miserable relationships and they cant leave because they cant support themselves. my dear sil is the same. she hasnt worked in 17 yrs, had to get a job and all she could do is work in a grocery store for $6 an hour. now that gives me the shivers.....

i realize that i havent made a point at all, but then again, worrying about money tends to be pointless, right?

[Elismama]

Have any of you internalized money as a symbol of power and freedom?

Absolutely. I feel powerless when we are broke. I feel so secure when we the checking account is brimming over into the savings account and the IRAs have max contributions going in. And I know I have completely internalized money=freedom. The freedom to purchase things, things I need or don't need, feels like freedom at the time. But when I am done buying it feels hollow.

Attached it to being needed for a sense of security?

Absolutely again. But you know, even when the bills are paid and there is some left over, I worry that it will not always be that way. So while I think I will feel more secure with more $, it never works that way in real life. I am convinced I would feel even less secure if we were rich- more to lose I guess. Yet, I still cannot get over the insecurity I feel about our finances.

Does the lack of it prevent you from leading the life you really want?

Somewhat. I mean, I am living the life I want- I get to be home with Eli, we get loads of family time as Mike has a short commute (4 miles) and a lot of time off, we live in a beautiful place and get to spend time outdoors everyday.

BUT, I wish I didn't have to work. And I spend way too much time/energy worrying about money. And there are things we would do if we had more- go for a long road/camping trip to visit dear friends in Minnesota, fix up our house more quickly... in the grand scheme of things I suppose these things are trivial.

I am babbling at this point. thank you if you have read this.

Lee- I am really full of hope for this thread but need loads of guidance. I am afraid I have not really grown in this area at all and have little to offer and tons to gain.

Thank you,
jeanie

[MamaKoala]

I am interested--count me in--LONG

If any of you have read my posts on financial woes, I am sure you're not surprised to see me here..

Here's an introduction to me: my dh and I have been married 1.5 years. We have a wonderful 5 month old boy. My DH grew up lower middle class, and deprived of love, affection, toys, friends, etc. I grew up upper middle class, private school, lots of affection (from mom at least..haha), homemade dinners, homemade Halloween outfits, piano lessons, tennis lessons, the whole nine yards of over achieving parents etc.

A few years ago, I had a job on Wall Street, where I earned good money and the potential to earn more was huge. But I quit...to become an acupuncturist and herbalist (papa was not a happy man....lol). After 3.5 years of schooling, I opened my own practice p/t. It is growing slowly. I dont accept insurance so that's part of the reason.

When I met my DH, he had 3 good years of earnings behind him. He finally built up his business to where he was pullng in good money, low 6 figures. But this year, we had the baby, we opened an office space together (we are not in the same business though), and his business dropped off dramatically. now we are in the hole financially.

We pay the minimums on our cards, which to me is like stabbing myself in the chest every month (I told you I had issues!!) We have about 100 bucks cash right now. We just paid the nanny a bonus and a weeks pay in cash, and charged all our gift s to family (small gifts).

I feel so worried about money but in the last 3-4 days I have undergone something of a seismic shift in my mood. I have been trying to 'let go and let god', trust in Jesus (I am christian), and count my blessings that i do have--a beautiful son, a husband i love, our health, and i also feel strangely grateful that i could come up with all the cash i needed to to pay our nanny her bonus and salary. Weird but true (nannies are expensive in NYC, even p/t ones!)

I know somthing needs to change in our lives, financially, if we are going to be able to pay the rent on our new office space, pay our health insurance, pay our home rent, etc. But i need to be able to live my life without CONSTANTLY worrying about it. I need to be able to "put it on the shelf". Like I said, in the last few days I have been feeling strangely hopeful. Usually, when things are bad (and they've never been THIS bad), I am so depressed I can't get out of bed. I feel tired and sad and mad. But for some reason, maybe cuz thngs are SOOOO bad, I am not doing that?

TO answer some of red dirt girls' questions:
1. Have any of you internalized money as a symbol of power and freedom? Attached it to being needed for a sense of security?
YES YES YES!! I feel without money I am powerless, weak, worthless, tied down. Growing up in my house as a child, we were taught that money IS POWER. People without money were "weak-willed". My dad grew up lower middle class, and turned himself into a millionaire. He let it be known that if "he could do it, anyone could". And if you didn't make money, you were either stupid or well, stupid. And poor people were to be disdained. I worked in a soup kitchen as a teen, and when my dad found out he went ballistic. Because he thought i was heliping people who wouldn't help themselves.


2. Does the lack of it prevent you from leading the life you really want? Given our current financial situation, I find myself pre-occupied with money most of the day. Going to get groceries? don't have enough cash...should I charge it? cc bills already in the thousands. Should I take a job I hate and leave baby in childcare all day? I am trying so hard to be grateful each day to the small gifts that come our way....my grandfather sent us 500 for christms and now we will be able to pay our nanny her next pay period...I got 2 new patients this week, and I will be able to pay the minimum on my card...a local online grocer offered $50 of free food just to try their service...my father is visiting us on Monday and wants to "give us a check"....I don't mind at all being on a budget---i don't shop, I don't mind buying used clothes for DH, I don't mind not going out to dinner (although I do like it once in a while), I don't mind cleaning the house myself (we used to have a cleaner), Idon't mind watching for deals. What I do mind is being in debt. That scares me, and makes me feel worthless and crummy. It makes me feel like "how could I have gotten into this mess?" when i know that every move we made along the way this year was carefully thought out. Sometimes thigns like this just happen.

okay, very long message. i am looking fwd to this thread very very much.
Hillary

[ladylee]

it sounds like we all have a really good handle on the source of these distorted beliefs. Money was definitely the higher power in my house growing up. I'm planning to concentrate on doing some cognitive repatterning through affirmation work, etc. With more strength from that what I would ultimately like to achieve is accepting more of what's intended for me!! I feel like I can do that if I just clear this other stuff out of the way, and that this process is necessary for me to truly be spiritually mature.

But I do want to acknowledge the progress I've made, and I hope everyone here gives themselves a huge pat on the back for that, too. For myself, I feel like it's a miracle that I broke away from the distorted views of my family of origin. Do you ever feel that way?

So. for now I'll end with a quote from Caroline Myss:

"Faith that transcends money frees a person to follow his or her intuitive guidance without giving over unnecessary authority to financial concerns."

Thanks for your input, everyone .

[MamaKoala]

Some other questions for y'all

How do you believe in yourself when things are tough? How do you make sure that "belief" is still grounded in practical reality?

For example, I am trying hard to believe that renting my own office space was the right thing to do. But maybe it wasn't. Maybe, from an objective point of view, my clinical practice wasn't big enough to warrant renting my own office yet. Plus, I have a newborn, so my business can't get the attention it needs.

To be clearer in my question, how do you seperate "Belief in yourself" from being impractical and irresponsible? I want to believe in myself, but I also want to be realistic in what I am capable of. For example, to "believe" that I will make 100,000 dollars this year would be silly. ANd to put my energies toward such a goal would be silly. But is 40,000 more realistic? Or maybe it's not? Is even setting goals for yourself (whether to pay off cc by a certain date, or make a certain amt of money or whatever) wrong-headed? How do you know when your desires and beliefs in yourself are still realistically grounded in reality?

[susan61]

count me in too!

I just discovered this thread. Nice to have found it.

I have been working hard and quietly on my financial beliefs as well. For years, since having kids, I've lived so close to the edge, believing we haven't been able to afford much for our kids. I really want to stop this line of thinking, conscious of how our beliefs are passed down to our children. I've seen in my older kids as they begin to figure out what 'being able to afford it' is all about. They motivate me to get my financial act together.

With this fairly new relationship, seems most of our problems stem from the sense of 'lack of abundance'. It's a false sense, a belief we have chosen to believe in. When I add up the numbers, we really 'should' have enough. There's just no room for unexpecteds - which there always are - and not much room for fun.

Yes, I am incredibly grateful for all I do have, none of us would deny our gratitude, I'm sure. Yes, there is much to be done for free - this just isn't the issue right now. Don't want any practical 'advice', thanks.

I'm working on internal changes, too. Letting go of the need to have money as the centre of our lives, as the reason for our problems. Sometimes I think we put the money in the middle there because it gives us something common to talk about, anguish about, plan with etc. It is easier to believe we have 'not enough' than to have to come to an agreement or plan on what to do with what we have. And as long as we believe we don't have enough, WE WON'T!!!! I know this. I am working on changing it.

MamaKoala, much of your last post can be answered with Caroline Myss' quote by ladylee. Belief in ourselves and our choices comes before the decisions and goal making. It's a subtle thing, listening and then TRUSTING our intuition. Scary, but it's possible to take baby steps to nurture that trust.

I'd better stop. I could go on and on today! Have much to say.

Question: In a partnership, what if one person maintains that belief in lack of abundance while the other moves beyond it? Do both have to change? Cuz I can't change him!!!! Is it my responsibility to teach/explain what I've learned to him for the benefit of our family's financial health? Cuz he says he's been here, done that - is more than a little jaded in this talk of manifesting, etc. I've got quite a job on my hands:

[3boys4us]

Cool thread. It has been a learning experience for us. Both dh and I have/had money issues esp. dh. He grew up in a very frugal family where everything was reused and reused etc... He strongly equated money = happiness and we racked up some incrdible debt together. We are mostly debt free now and pay cash for everything but now I do all the bills and everything and it worries me tremendousy. I often thought of going back to work part time to "help" out yet the amount of time I have available to work is limited due to kids and dh's schedule. I worry about our retirement and how the kids are going to go to college. I worry about the roof and the well.

The fights dh and I have over $ tend to be vicious. I blame him for bad decisions in our past. He feels I never give him enough credit for overcoming it.

I have been trying very hard for the past year to "get over" money issues. Dh took a new job at less pay and we have been very tight. Every little thing turns into a financial crisis. We've read Suze Orman and the Millionare Next Door. We pay cash for everything and limit our recreational spending to a bare minimum. I have also tried revamping the way I present no $ issues to kids. But that is hard and I think they are aware on some level of our financial limitations esp. since we live in a upper middle class/wealthy town. It seems as they get older the limitations on what we can afford are becoming more pronounced. And how will I handle this? I have no idea.

I'm working on internal changes, too. Letting go of the need to have money as the centre of our lives, as the reason for our problems. Sometimes I think we put the money in the middle there because it gives us something common to talk about, anguish about, plan with etc. It is easier to believe we have 'not enough' than to have to come to an agreement or plan on what to do with what we have. And as long as we believe we don't have enough, WE WON'T!!!! I know this. I am working on changing it

This is very true. It tends to consume me when I start planning for an event like xmas, or piano lessons for the boys or whatever. In my heart I have a feeling we will be fine, not Bill Gates rich or even Millionare Next Door rich but okay. And yet I just read a quote in our local paper from a guy who works with homeless familes to the effect of "All middle class families are only a paycheck or two away from being homeless themselves (in RI which is a very expensive state)". He was talking about unemployment or major crisis in one's life. This quote terrified me.

In a partnership, what if one person maintains that belief in lack of abundance while the other moves beyond it? Do both have to change? Cuz I can't change him!!!!

One of the things that happened with us was I had to sit down with him and write EVRYTHING he spent and charged to show him where all that money went. And it took years and doing this. It hasn't been until this year that he truly scaled back his expectations of money and happiness.

"Faith that transcends money frees a person to follow his or her intuitive guidance without giving over unnecessary authority to financial concerns."

That is lovely.

[Mollie]

I LOVE this topic!!! For too many years my self-worth was tied up in my salary. Finally, I let go of it, depended more on DH and God, and things are OK! We are finally out of debt, have only our mortgage, and it is a wonderful feeling. very liberating.

[ladylee]

I'm getting so much from what everyone is contributing here (don't worry jeanie--I highly doubt there are any gurus here and we're all trying to figure it out as we go along . MamaKoala--you bring up advanced concepts and I'm still in the intro course , but I don't think there's any right answer to what you question. I think on one hand, it's very impt to have a handle on the realities and to develop pragmatic skills about what risks to take and when. Then on the other hand there's a lot to be said about taking a leap of faith and demonstrating one's commitment to their passion by getting that office and setting a salary goal, even though it might be like "no way!" :LOL Best of luck to you.
I have to work hard on being grounded in practicality--it does not come naturally.

Congratulations to everyone who worked hard to be debt free, and to those who are working toward that, you can do it! I never thought we could do it, but we did. It makes all the difference.

[MamaKoala]

more thoughts

i have never had a problem maintaining a budget. why then (you might ask!) do we have cc debt? well, we opened a new office and construction was expensive. that's it. I am trying not to beat myself up over the cc debt because it was for a REASON, and we did the construction as frugally as we could (nyc is EXPENSIVE). We thought it through, and we did alot of the work ourselves.
I am trying hard to not beat myself up over the debt. And trying hard too to convince myself that our businesses will pick up and we will be able to cut the debt down.

my dad wants to write us a check to help us out. But money has been such a dificult topic in our family (he uses money to substitute for emotions) that I am wary. OTOH, wouldn't it be nice to be "saved", at least in part? Should I aid and abet my dad's tendency to buy his way out of things? Many people would say "HECK YEA--you need the money, and he wants to give it to you..." but it's more complicated than that.

okay.
that's it for now. thanks ladylee for your insights! eveyone has so much to offer!

[ladylee]

And I just want to latch on to Mollie's enthusiasm--for me, everything to do with money was to be dreaded and feared!!!! How awful that is! Why can't things associated with dough be happy and joyous--I want to enjoy opening the bank statement or paying bills. Ok, that's going a little far, but you know whut I mean?

[MamaKoala]

hmmm

when we had money, my dh loved paying his bills--he was so used to not being able to pay them, that he relished being ABLE to pay them. I personally use an online bill paying service to avoid even having the bills contaminate my house. blech. but i am like you ladylee, wary about anything to do with money--unless i am flush, then i am happy. i stay on my budget and am grateful to have enough for savings.

my sis is a BIG BIG spender--prada bags, gucci things, etc--yet she goes on and on about how she has no money. it's so hard for me to relate, I just get mad at her. She takes cabs everywhere, and i just get so mad at her for saying she's "broke". Does anyone else have that kind of dysfunction in their family---it's hard to talk to family members because they just don't "get it"?

[susan61]

I wanted to share what appears to be a change I have made :LOL

I have my own account - small, but mine and we have a joint account. I have been struggling forever trying to keep control of the joint account but that meant being a 'dollar cop' to my partner. I didn't feel like asking him everyday "what did you spend? what on?" etc. So I decided to just start by controlling my own spending.

I write everything down in my register now and keep track of cc spending (we had to buy new brakes for the car for Christmas: ).

I am happy to say I am honoring myself by taking the time, wherever I am, to record my spending. I now know exactly how much I have in my teeny tiny account.

This may seem like nothing, but it isn't to me, and I just wanted to toot my own horn!