Nursing Mama's - week of 9/23- 9/30

[Autumn Breeze]

How's it going this week?

Kate is doing well, loves nursing (nak actually).

I think we caught the thrush early enough and are already getting better...keep you fingers crossed that this is true!

If only I coul get big brother to listen during nursing sessions!

[Shell_Ell]

Better, but only because we're supplementing. I HATE it. But he's so much more satisfied with a little more in his tummy. I am barely making .5 oz each feed. It sucks. I'm taking fenugreek in hopes to boost supply, and putting him on the breast almost constantly. I'm having to supplement 1 oz 10x a day. If this is a long term thing, I might consider doing a mom-to-mom milk bank type deal. I am not thrilled with giving my baby formula, in fact I've really had to get over my own bulls**t in order to give him the calories he needs.

Hopefully it won't be too long and my milk will be enough to get him where he needs to be. Right now it's just incredibly frustrating to know I'm not making enough.

[Autumn Breeze]

I'm sorry you are having to deal with supplementing.

Do you like oatmeal? how about beer? You can eat a bowl of oatmeal for breakfast, and drink a TON of water all day (keep a gallon jug near you and keep filling your glass)...and get dh to pick up some 'neer-beer' for you! Thoes also help boost supply. You can still take the fenugreek too. Oh ya, and mothers milk tea!

If you are pumping and figuring the .5 oz is all that Riley is getting, he's probably getting more than that (and right now he's probably only eatting about 2 oz at a time anyway) Mom's tend to perform worse for the pump. I bet he's getting a bit more than .5 oz at the breast. I'm not telling you this to make you feel bad, just trying to let you know. I think you mentioned talking to an LC about all this too, and that's good.

Oh ya, and, even though your nips may still be sore, let him use you as a pacifier, that will also only help your supply!!!!! ((hugs)) and congrats for sticking with it!!

[The Milk Bag]

((((Michelle)))), I'm so sorry you are having supply issues. That is probably the most stressful thing for a nursing mother.

Are you sure he is only getting half an ounce? If you are pumping to tell, that is not a good indicator. If you haven't already, try doing before and after weights on a medela babyweigh scale - most IBCLCs have this type of scale available. You can see exactly how much he took in this way.

There a lots of things you can do to boost supply. The best is to nurse, nurse, nurse, and nurse. Fenugreek is good, also try mother's milk tea. Oatmeal works for some women, some have had really good luck with wheatgrass juice. If none of those work, you could ask your health care provider for a prescription for Reglan.

How is your bleeding? If there was a bit of placenta retained from the birth, your milk supply will suffer. The biggest indicator of this other than low milk supply is prolonged bleeding and large clots. I actually had this problem after Eva's birth. I was passing extremely large clots and at one point what looked like placenta. I ended up having a secondary postpartum hemorrhage and uterine infection before the nurse at the OB's office actually believed that the bleeding I had been calling about for weeks was serious enough to be evaluated. *rolling eyes* My body ended up passing it all on its own and within 4-5 days my milk supply was wonderful. Sometimes you will need a D&C to take care of it if your body doesn't do it on its own. Retained placenta isn't terribly common, but it is worth mentioning.

I hope things improve soon.

[Shell_Ell]

Wow you guys are awesome.

The .5 oz was figured with a naked weigh, a feeding, and a naked weigh right after. Twice we've done it, twice he's gained .5 oz from my feed. (about 10-15 min) Although I must say, nursing in public isn't quite like nursing at home. He nurses better at home. I don't pump. I can't really afford one right now, even to rent. I'm thinking it might be a good idea, though. I could be pumping all the time then, between feeds, and giving him an ounce of breastmilk instead of an ounce of formula. We'll see what the next few days bring. I go to weigh him again Monday.

Mother's milk tea- been drinking it like it's going out of style. And we're currently out of oatmeal but going grocery shopping tomorrow. My mom actually suggested drinking a half a beer or so every day, too. I hadn't heard of that and thought she was nuts. :LOL O'Douls works though, huh?

My bleeding is almost non-existant. *shrug* It's a little spotting here and there. Nipples aren't sore at all! I had a few rough days of scabby blisters, etc but they are just fine now. I've just been without a shirt as much as possible and wearing shells, too.

I've been in contact with an IBCLC and also close contact with my midwives and Riley's ped. We're all working together. I go for my 2 week appt on Monday, I'm going to the free BFing clinic run by that LC on Tuesday, and Riley has another appt on Thursday. I'm hoping that working really hard to feed him day and night... CONSTANTLY this weekend will get his weight up and get my supply up.

Thanks you guys for helping me, I don't mean to dump this here. It's just been pretty hard on me!

[The Milk Bag]

Michelle- another question - what have his weights been? What was his birthweight, how much did he lose after birth, and what has he weighed each time you've weighed him since? That's the best way to evaluate your milk supply.

Every time I've done before and after weights with Eva, she has only taken in 0.5 ounce. She's a tiny thing but growing very well - she was 5lb7oz at birth and is 8lb11oz now at 8 weeks old. But if I just looked at those before and after weights I would be a bit concerned.

If you have any questions, please ask. You aren't dumping on anyone here. I know there is a lot of experience here with moms nursing previous babies. I'm also a lactation counselor - nothing makes me happier than helping a mom succeed with nursing. So please, please ask if you have any other questions and let us know how you are doing. The breastfeeding board here at MDC is wonderful too.

[wendy1221]

I have a friend who is an IBCLC. Since I asked her about Liam's latching problems, she asked if I would do her a favor and meet her in the WIC office instead of her coming over or me going to her house so that she could test out the scale they bought and want her to use. She does NOT want to do weighs b/c she feels that the anxiety of a mom knowing that she is being tested will make it hard for her to let-down. Which makes perfect sense. SO I wouldn't go by the weighs. She did do a weigh on Liam, but he refused to nurse afterwards. So she decided to try out her idea of weighing a dirty diaper instead. Her plan is to ask moms who don't think they're producing enough to save 24 hours worth of dirty diapers, plus bring in a clean one (to multiply its weight times the # of dirties to subtract out to get the weight of the pee and poop.) She feels this will be much more accurate than weighing a baby before and after a feed when the mom is anxious and not likely to be relaxed enough to get good let-downs. Just a thought.

Btw, the diaper we weighed came in at 2 1/4 oz. He had been wearing it for about 3 hours (which is a pretty long time--for me anyway.) I thought it was pretty full, but he wets like that several times a day. I haven't been coping as well w/ laundry ad stuff, so I've switched to disposibles mainly this week. I figure by the time these bags are gone, I should have my act together a little more.

Oh, and also, Michelle, have you thought about going to LLL and explaining your situation? I wouldn't be surprised if someone offered to lend you a pump. I know I would if I lived close to you. THat's assuming you are OK w/ shared pumps. (If its Ameda and you sterilize the parts that touch the milk, there's no chance of contamination.) Also, do you qualify for WIC? If so, they will lend you a hospital grade pump and give you a new Hygienikit until you get this straightened out. It might be worth applying just for the pump. Call them up and get a list of stuff to bring. I know for sure you'll need recent pay stubs, driver's license, a utility bill (to prove address), and I think birth certificates for you and baby when you get his.

[meowee]

shell ell-- here is my advice for low supply

consider temporarily trying a vegan diet, becauser plant-based foods will increase your supply (meat and dairy don't have the same effect). Don't worry about whether it's health food or not-- white rice, french fries, even vegan cake-- whatever (but eat good stuff too!). I found that my supply doubled when I went on a vegan diet, and it wasn't all healthfood. Try it for a day or two to see if you see an increase. Do try to include wild rice and green salad stuff daily.

Think of cows, after all-- they just eat salad!

Drink blessed thistle tea or even just eat the dry tea.

Double your water intake-- at least double! Hydration is more important than calories for milk supply (IMO). At the very least, increasing your water won't hurt. Drink water instead of other drinks. Drink, drink, drink.

[phathui5]

Tandem nursing again is going well here. I have a little soreness on the right side, but am fine otherwise. James is growing like a weed. He went from 6.3 at birth to 7.10 on the 20th. And dd has gained a pound and a half on the new baby milk. This after her not gaining any weight for almost a year, so I am thrilled. I'm so glad she's "still" nursing.

[Galatea]

Good luck, Michelle. I know you can do it!

I figured out Miles' latch problem - he is a lazy boy and wants me to sandwich my nipple all the time, throughout the entire feed. So he is not really lazy - he must have some issue with his mouth shape and my flat nipples. I think he is a little tongue-tied or his tongue is short. But now he eats just fine. I hate going to the ped, so I can't weigh him, but I can tell he is eating so much better, and quicker. How would I recognize tongue-tie?

[Full Heart]

michelle, you have gotten some great advice. I just wanted to add that you can get a free pump from WIC. Blessed thistle worked great for me, and yes drink lots of water, a glass at every nursing.

As for Ian and I. Hes still figuring out that he needs to open his mouth to eat. So it takes a few min to latch on, after that hes good to go. I went to my parents last night for my dads birthday and it was the first time I have nursed him somewhere other than home and he did great. Wasn't bothered at all by the new surrondings. And hes gotten much better about keeping his hands out of the way.

Michelle

[gr8tfulmom]

Are any of your babes frequently falling asleep at the nipple after only a short time (5 min or less)? Taite is a great little nurser while he can stay awake, but during the day we are in this cycle of nurse a few mins..fall asleep..wake after a 10 min cat nap...and freak out because we are just starving. Any ideas on keeping em awake?

nak is qite a bit harder than I imagined

[wendy1221]

Originally Posted by Galatea

Good luck, Michelle. I know you can do it!

I figured out Miles' latch problem - he is a lazy boy and wants me to sandwich my nipple all the time, throughout the entire feed. So he is not really lazy - he must have some issue with his mouth shape and my flat nipples. I think he is a little tongue-tied or his tongue is short. But now he eats just fine. I hate going to the ped, so I can't weigh him, but I can tell he is eating so much better, and quicker. How would I recognize tongue-tie?

I should have posted this, but w/ my sleep deprivation, I wasn't thinking straight. When I saw my LC friend, she had me demonstrate w/ a doll how I nurse Liam and I mimed latching him on, and then letting go of my breast and she said Aha! You have big breasts and need to hold them up for him for a few more weks. No more slipping off.

My 2nd ds was severely tongue-tied. He couldn't stick his tongue out past his lips and when he did stick it out, it wasn't round at hte end it was shaped more like a w, except rounded instead of pointy of course (so nrmal tongue = U, tongue-tie =W.) That's the big indicator, I think. Do a search on tongue-tie and you should find some pics. Maybe kellymom. I'm naking my toddler right now , so I can't post links.

[Galatea]

Originally Posted by wendy1221

I should have posted this, but w/ my sleep deprivation, I wasn't thinking straight. When I saw my LC friend, she had me demonstrate w/ a doll how I nurse Liam and I mimed latching him on, and then letting go of my breast and she said Aha! You have big breasts and need to hold them up for him for a few more weks. No more slipping off.

My 2nd ds was severely tongue-tied. He couldn't stick his tongue out past his lips and when he did stick it out, it wasn't round at hte end it was shaped more like a w, except rounded instead of pointy of course (so nrmal tongue = U, tongue-tie =W.) That's the big indicator, I think. Do a search on tongue-tie and you should find some pics. Maybe kellymom. I'm naking my toddler right now , so I can't post links.

I guess I do have big, floppy breasts. They were fimer and smaller with ds1.

Thanks - I'll go look for the pictures.

[sarahloughmiller]

We are doing surprisingly well. The babies are nursing so good and at 2 weeks Miles has gained 1lb over his birth weight and Byron has gained 10oz over his birth weight. It is not as hard as I thought it would be to nurse twins. They are starting latch on without help now which is nice also.

to all of you having a hard time. With ds I had a really hard time the 1st 2 weeks, but we ended up nursing over 2 years in the end. Hang in there, once you get past that first little while it is so easy.

Michelle - I know it was already suggested, but go to WIC and see if you qualify. They will loan you a hospital grade pump and they have lots of info and other stuff to help also. They may even have a lactation consultant that can help you.

[PrincessCass]

Milk came in on wednesday night and I have been painfully engorged ever since I have had to pump the past two nights to relieve some pressure. Both times I got four ounces in ten minutes holy cow I am full. Still a little sore from the afterbirth nursing marathon and tomorrow we are gonna try and get her to nurse more during the day and actually sleep at night. My boys were very predictable but this little princess has us all upsidedown :LOL
Well thats about it for us our first week as a nursing couple.

Hang in there Michele I am very impressed with your determination.

[curlyfry]

My milk came in about four days ago and I've been waiting for those "hard as bricks, engorged breasts" that you hear so much about, but it hasn't happened. I find that the first feeding in the morning is kind of hard, because she usually sleeps about 3 hours before that and my nipple gets kind of flat so it's hard for her to latch. Maybe I can bypass the engorgement, or maybe it's yet to come?

She's kind of a lazy latcher still...doesn't want to really OPEN her mouth, and then once she does, she'll slip half of the breast out of there and THEN decide to start sucking on my nipple(ouch!) I'm going to try the holding my breast up thing. Maybe it's just a little too heavy for her to keep in there once she latches.

Sorry Michele, for what you're going through. Hang in there, ok? A lot of moms would just give up, but because of your determination, I KNOW you're going to make it work. I know your baby can sense that you want to do what's best for him.

[Shell_Ell]

Does anyone know anything about nipple confusion? I was thinking about giving Riley his supplements in a bottle. It's been harder and harder dealing with a syringe. I mean, I can definately do it, but it's tough. I had it break on me twice today- the little rubber stopper would come off and get stuck in the shaft of the syringe. My husband had to dig it out! Anyway, Chad went to Walgreens to get my prenatal vitamins and I asked him to pick up an Avent bottle. The LC I've been working with said something about it being okay to give him one but I was so closed minded at the time I didn't listen to her. I didn't want to give a bottle. I read a bit in the LLL book and of course they say NOT to give formula, period. So I don't know what to think!

Such great advice here. Addressing some of it... WIC- we don't qualify. My husband makes almost twice the income limit (if it is what the website says) it's one of those things. We make enough to pay the bills but don't make enough for many extras. Since he took off work when Riley was born we've fallen behind a bit, even with savings. So I'm trying to avoid spending the money on a pump. Is it worth it, though? The LC I've been meeting with talked about it as well. I will have to ask her on Tuesday. Might be good to pump between feeds, get my supply up that way- and then be able to give him EBM in the syringe or a bottle.

I'm not sure what his weights have been. I think that the day he was dehydrated his weight had gone down to 6 lb 3 oz. He was 6 lb 11 oz at birth. It's gone back up now to 6 lb 8 oz as of Friday.

I'm still battling back and forth about this. I still wonder if giving him the formula is really best. He's started to get frustrated with how slow my milk lets down, I think because the syringe is that much faster. He pulls off a few times with each feed. He was also quite fussy last night and didn't sleep any substantial stretch.

I have so much I want to say but limited time and can't find the words to type it all. Any and all input is very much apprieciated, and thank you for the "you can do it" type attitude here. You'd be suprised how many people have told me just to quit and do formula. *roll eyes here* It's not even an option for me. Unless I'm bone dry, I'm not going to give up on the notion that I might be able to 100% nurse my baby one day!

[curlyfry]

nak

Michele...I asked my LC about nipple confusion (wanted to know about using a pacifier to calm her down since she wants to suck all the time!) said that after we get a good latch consistently, theres no problem giving her a pacifier. Of course the difference is that she doesn't get food out of the pacifier. I remember in my Bradley class she said that giving them a bottle early on might make it harder to nurse because, although it's a different latch with a bottle, it's easier for them so it makes it harder for them to bf. Talk to your LC again with an open mind and see what she says. HTH!

[Galatea]

A bottle makes me very nervous, esp. since he isn't satisfied with you. But I am not an LC, so I don't have professional advice. I know you can breastfeed successfully and you should continue to fight and work at it so that you don't have regrets later. I would spend the money on a pump. It is worth it.