Psychotic 20+ minute crazy temper tantrums

[UrbanPlanter]

Ok, so I am trying to figure out ds' food issues, which so far for the bulk of his life have manifested in sleeplessness and eczema.

But now, this year, something new has been brewing, like a huge storm. And it's getting worse and worse and worse.

Psychotic episodes is the best way I can think of to describe it.
DS is incredibly sweet and bright and fun and charming and creative...
"when he is good, he is very very good, but when he is bad, he is horrid"

Today was one of the worst episodes.
In the playground, he started to get cranky.
He didn't want to share the choo choo train (as usual).
We managed to work through some minor altercations - yelling, shoving; nothing that amounted to major issues so far.
But then he started going up to random kids and just stepping on them or kicking them or pushing them or yelling at them - storm is brewing now!
I decided that it was no longer safe for other kids for him to stay at the playground, and I gently explained to him that we had to be friendly and play nice, or we couldn't stay.
This suggested brought black clouds.
The situation was worsening quickly, so I said it seemed to me that maybe he was tired or hungry and we should go home and nurse and nap.
Now the tantrum starts.
He resists having me guide him out of the playground (and I had his bike with training wheels, too, so this was no small feat). He throws himself to the ground. He screams he doesn't want to go. I ask him if he can be friendly if we stay, and he yells "no!"
So I pick him up and drag his bike and leave the playground, but he starts punching me and kicking me, all the while screaming and shrieking (we're putting on quite a show now!)
My poor dh is home sick today but I called him for backup. I couldn't manage the bike and ds now.
I take ds and his bike to a bench just outside the playground, and (we're now at least five minutes into this) for the next 15 minutes or more we wait for dh while ds screams and yells while I try to hold him on my lap - he's kicking, punching, head butting - and if I let him go he flings himself to the ground which is hard cobble stone and sharp curb edges and wrought iron fence and the hard bench all around him; I had to protect his head from getting smashed while he was in the midst of this terrible tantrum. He would try to run away from me, but he was so out of sorts that that was not a safe thing to do, so I tried to hold him on my lap again. He yelled "you're choking me! you're hurting me!" when in fact I was just holding him around his middle and trying to keep his arms from flailing about. I was not holding him anywhere near his neck.

Finally dh showed up after 20 minutes or more of this episode. DS was just beginning to calm down, and agreed that maybe he did need to nurse. I think I did a pretty good job of remaining calm throughout this episode, but it was damn hard. I kept shushing him and talking calmly about trying to calm him down and asking him not to hit or kick.

DH carried him home and I pushed the bike; halfway we switched. DS was still protesting about leaving. When we got home he wanted books, so it took a while before he nursed to sleep (finally an hour and a half after this all started he is fast asleep).

What the heck do you think this is all about?
As far as food, I have already eliminated dairy, soy, corn, wheat, and berries (but sometimes these foods get into his diet bc it's so hard to avoid them). Today, he had sesame chicken from the chinese takeout, which I'm sure had corn syrup in the sauce, and maybe soy, which also contains wheat. It was a stupid move on my part, but his freakout happened within a half an hour of eating. It's gotta be more than just having eaten that food.

Also, he is in the second week of preschool and still adusting to the new schedule (3 1/2 hour days, five days a week) and seems to be transitioning to no nap, but now I think I will try to have him nap, anyway, even if he stays up until 10 pm, bc he just gets so overtired.

I don't know what else to do!

HELP!!

[alegna]

Artificial colors?

Also- you need someone to teach you a safe hold for him- now. There is a way to hold a child in your lap that you can keep both of you fairly safe. Do you have any friends nearby who work in special ed? I think the hold is called a basket hold- but it's been too long- I could be wrong.

Have you tried closely controling EVERYTHING he eats for a week or two to see if things improve?

Wish I had more advice.

-Angela

[UrbanPlanter]

MSG? I never go to this particular chinese takeout; don't know if they use it.

In general, I avoid artificial anything, along with the rest of the stuff on the list. Although there could have been artificial coloring in the sauce on the chicken, along with the corn syrup and soy.
We are now pretty much committed to groceries from the local organic food mart or Whole Foods.

I am so freaked out right now.

[circlemama]

SESAME SEEDS ARE A HUGE ALLERGEN! I take it you've already read
Is this my child? by Doris Rapp?

[UrbanPlanter]

I do have that book, and am reading it - but I haven't read it all yet.

[pammysue]

Maybe he also has environmental allergies. My brother would get "psychotic" also at certain times of the year because of environmental allergies, especially mold. He would just be soooo angry, yelling and throwing things. My mother would remind him to take some Benadryl and 1/2 hour later he would be fine.

Since, you were outside, I would definitely check into environmental allergies also. I think that the weather channel's website www.weather.com has a chart which shows the level of allergens in the air each day. I have heard that the fall allergens are very bad this year.

I second the recommendation for Dr. Rapp. We were lucky enough to be seen by her when we were little (lots of allergies in our family!!) and she helped us so much.

One more thought, were there any animals around where he was playing at the park? Any dogs?

[UrbanPlanter]

no dogs at the playground.

[TalkToMeNow]

I followed your link from my thread in GD... wow, the situation you described with your son sounds almost exactly like what my daughter can be like. The only difference is that she doesn't hit kids other than her sister... yet, anyway. Today she attacked dd2 and me and then rolled around on the floor screaming hysterically for 15 minutes (on and off, when she got away from me as I was trying to hold her to comfort her), all because I wouldn't get up immediately during lunch to get her a piece of tape. Anyway, I'm posting this for a reason-- can this behaviour actually be caused by food alleregies?? Please, everyone, excuse my ignorance. I just assumed that if she had a food allergy, I'd see some more traditional symptoms: upset stomach, frequent illness, etc. Can behavior be the sole symptom? If so, I need to do some serious research into this.

UrbanPlanter. Good luck to you. Wish I had some advice.

[ShellyK]

I want to say that YES these symptoms could be from food allergies. My DD is probably much younger than your son, and her actual behavior was slightly different at the peak of it, but not much, especially considering her age at the time. In our case, she would wake up screaming at night and scream for 2-3 hours straight, flopping away from us and inconsolable - wanting us there but not wanting us there, crying and flailing if we tried to hold her, but if we left her on the bed, she'd end up in our laps crying and flailing again.

This was pretty much the only symptom we had to work from - other than occasional diaper rashes and a teeny bit of eczema behind her ears. She was generally very needy from day one - I literally held her about 23/7 for the first six months because she would scream if I put her down or if someone else tried to take her. And she'd wake up the moment she was put down even if she was in a very deep sleep.

I would strongly recommend a STRICT elimination diet for at least a few weeks and see how things go. Dairy, soy, and wheat are good places to start. While you're at it, keep a detailed food diary of every crumb that goes into his mouth - and yours too if you're nursing. Julie's problems started with whatever she was getting through my milk. In that food diary, not behavioral patterns, and I also had a column in mine to track what we did that day so that I could look for patterns in activities vs. behavior.

I'd also recommend finding an allergist and having skin-prick testing done. The tests are not 100% accurate - my DD definitely is allergic to wheat and her skin test showed up clear. But if you ask to have the big 8 allergens tested, you've got a good chance of pinpointing at least one problem food. Once we figured out and eliminated dairy, soy and wheat, the food diary started turning up the other problem foods.

You may have problems getting some doctors to acknowledge that these symptoms could be food related. I had my daughter in the clinic about 3 times a month on average for the first year and a half of her life and the ped flat-out refused to do allergy testing because the tests are expensive and she didn't think kids that small got food allergies and there were no other symptoms....and about a million other excuses including implying that I was a neurotic first-time mom. In the end, I had to go behind her back to have the allergy testing done.

Best wishes!

[Oh the Irony]

Originally Posted by UrbanPlanter

I do have that book, and am reading it - but I haven't read it all yet.

seriously think about getting an enviromental med. person who can do the provocation/neutralization testing. i think it would be very worthwhile for you.

i think you are an awesome mom.

[UrbanPlanter]

Thanks wolfmama! and everyone who has posted here

ok, I'm a little calmer now. DS took a long nap, and was very agreeable this evening. Oh, and I went out to a professional function, which was a lot of fun and a nice relief from home-life. But even tho I got back late, ds was still as pleasant as can be, and was great about getting ready for bed.

He did, however, tell me how he didn't like the way I was holding him at the playground and asked me not to do it again. I asked him what hurt him about the way I was holding him, and he said "my stomach" I didn't mean to do that!

[alegna]

Glad things were better tonight.

I wish I remembered the hold better- I know that you sit crosslegged with your legs over theirs, and then there is a way to hug them where you can keep them from hitting you. It's not the most comfortable position, but it should keep you both from getting hurt. Maybe try asking over in special needs....

hope things get better soon,

-Angela

[UrbanPlanter]

Thanks alegna - I copied my OP in an email to two local people I know IRL who have SNK who might be able to help me.

[Oh the Irony]

sometimes it feels so hard to find answers.

is is an allergy? sensitivity as a trait? spirited? a difference in the way the brain functions? or some combo that is bound and determined to drive you nuts?

this was a doc i took my son to.

www.coem.com

[JaneS]

Sounds like my son. His behavioral reactions seem to be a combination of poor sleep and poor digestion (the gut is the second brain).

Stool tests confirmed too many bad bacteria and too little good ones... which result in allergies/food reactions b/c the food is not being digested properly. The good bacteria, probiotics, in the gut take care of the intestinal villi and produce enzymes, both of which are integral in breaking down food.

The toxins produced by bad bacteria/yeast are chemically structured like alcohol and are shown to produce behavioral problems as such. Whole food molecules, especially gluten, have been implicated in seizure disorders and behavioral problems. So if the food proteins are not being broken down by the gut, they enter the bloodstream and cause reactions, including auto immune conditions such as eczema.

Also if food is not being broken down properly, nutrients are not being absorbed, which can also lead to a host of other issues.

Therefore it is not a food allergy per se but a functional problem of the digestive system. Aka "leaky gut".

I have personally experienced this as when my digestion was bad I had insomnia, buzzing anxiety and became very short tempered.

[wendy1221]

Several people in my family, including myself and my ds, get psychotic from red dye #40. In fact, when I was in college and would say no thanks to alcohol at parties, my friends would joke that "Wendy doesn't need alcohol or drugs, just slip her some red Kool-Aid and she's crazy for half an hour!" They thought it was hilarious, but I wasn't very happy w/ the headaches when the red dye wore off when they actually did slip me some red 40 (only happened once and after realizing tht yeah, it made me crazy for 20 min or so, which was probably funny, but that I had a headache and general fuzziness for a whole day afterwards, they felt bad and never did it again.)

ANyway, there's often red 40 on reddish clored chinese foods. Stay away from the General Tsao's! And some places just throw sesame seeds on mild General Tsao's and call it sesame chicken. ALtough it could be any of the other things mentioned above, including outdoor allergies at the playground. It's damp fall weather now, and I know all those mushrooms give me headaches.

MSG wouldn't cause this type of reaction. The body produces glutamate on its own, getting a big dose doesn't affect most people, and the people it does effect generally have a different kind of reaction, and it's not behavioral.

[LaLa]

I don't think it's stupid to think it could have been the take out food.
I would be VERY strict about the gluten and other foods you know bother him!

Bean used to react within 2 hours of eating a trace of gluten. She would get cramping and diarrhea and feel miserable. Of course we didn't know all of what was going on, so she felt miserable for 3 years a lot of the time.
It took us too long to figure out, but when we did figure it out, she felt better, was less tense, MUCH more social.

Just imagine how you would feel inside if the foods you eat were making you sick, but you are too little to understand and articulate that.


Poor sweetie. I hope he feels better today!

Be STRICT about the diet! And I would avoid the corn syrup and soy, dies, and msg too!
I post this all the time, so sorry to be annoying if I have already recommended it, but we find this helpful
www.thegardenofeatingdiet.com
As a way to look at all the foods we can eat and not focus on what we can't.

I have some recipes too, that I'd be happy to share, for allergen free baked goods.

[greencat]

My DD's crying fit faded when I took wheat out of our diet. I recommend writing a food diary. The easy thing to do is cut out the labels, or omit packaged food. I have isolated which foods caused cry outs by keeping the records of what we ate. Good luck.