Cesaren Section Support Thread October 2005 - Page 7

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

I agree with trusting our instincts, except for one thing. When everyone around you is pushing and pushing in one direction and/or employing scare tactics, it's very difficult to separate your intuitive feelings from the external stuff being pushed down your throat.

AMEN! There are scare tactics about everything to be found at MDC-- God help you if you give birth in a hospital, put your kid in a bassinet or crib *ever*, vaccinate them, send them to public school or just can't afford a 100% organic, vegan diet.

Wow, that could easily turn into a huge rant, so I'm gonna stop now.

I am planning to VBAC #3. I even want to catch him by myself, and that's what I'm planning to do. My dr is entirely supportive of the VBAC, doesn't know a thing about the solo birth and never will. It may not happen, because my water tends to break without labor starting and quite frankly I think that after 48 hours, I'm not going to be willing to wait. If that's what happens, if my water breaks and 48 hours I have no signs of impending labor at all, I will likely go to the hospital and have a c-section. They won't want to give me pitocin because I had a section with BooBah, and they probably won't want to wait terribly long (though I will ask for the same doctor who did my section before, because he did a kick-ass job all the way around). I may be able to get some waiting in by agreeing to CFHM, which won't be a problem as far as I'm concerned. And I definately need to get my ass over to the Ceserian Goddess site to print out that birth plan, and work up my own but I can't do that until the weekend (at the ILs house where they have a lovely high speed connection).

[Peppermint]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

I agree with trusting our instincts, except for one thing. When everyone around you is pushing and pushing in one direction and/or employing scare tactics, it's very difficult to separate your intuitive feelings from the external stuff being pushed down your throat.

I wanted to say on this whole "trust your instincts" thing too, that as I planned my last c-section, I was just doing what seemed best based on my situation, the waiting for full-on labor was based on research I had done, I wansn't "listening to my instincts" b/c they weren't saying anything clear, it was when I suddenly had a strong feeling that my plan was not good, but had no real "research" reason why that I had to trust that gut feeling. The gut feeling won't happen to everyone(didn't happen with my first 2), I think it mainly happens when your plans are wrong, we rarely get that feeling in our gut when all is right with these decisions, yk?

[mamabeth]

Yes, I just wanted to say that I totally agree with listening to *your* instincts. When dh and I had to decide what to do about this birth (less than 2 weeks ago) I forced myself to not check the MDC boards, to block out the doc's scare stuff, and to pray and talk with dh and my friends and family about what *we* wanted to do. I think since we did that, I am pretty much at peace (at least for now...of course stuff may come up later) with our decision to schedule this c-section. It ended up being a great birth and a healthy kid and it just felt right at the time. Also, since I know that I totally made the decision, I'm not bitter or angry at anybody this time (as opposed to last time with dd). Makes a huge difference.

So....if there is a next time I will do the same, listen to what my instincts are telling me and what feels like the right thing to do.

[OnTheFence]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

I agree with trusting our instincts, except for one thing. When everyone around you is pushing and pushing in one direction and/or employing scare tactics, it's very difficult to separate your intuitive feelings from the external stuff being pushed down your throat.

I think that goes for anything. Didn't you feel pressure to VBAC? I mean you were reading everything you could about it, coming here, talking to people in various forums about it and had this overall feeling that your cesareans were just this terrible god awful thing. Couldn't you say you fed that? I mean how many times have I read in these very forums the horrors of csections and how the risks are way over exagerrated. For the most part cesareans are safe, but if you go to ICAN or a VBAC site you may think that a cesareans could be equated with cutting a limb off or rape.

Many of us have CHOSEN not to trust our instincts and actually try to do something that we know that our bodies or ourselves or even our babies should not be doing. Example: With my first birth I wanted a natural vaginal birth, I decided to have an ECV even though I felt it was not going to work -- but I did it because I wanted to avoid a csection. It was more important to me to have that vaginal birth and prove something than what was really best for mine and my babies health.

Just wanting to throw that out there....

[Heavenly]

That is so true! I don't know WHAT my instincts are telling me. I have prayed about it and haven't seemed to get a clear answer but I know I am probably blocking it. A part of me is really scared to go for a VBAC and just worried about how I will react if it doesn't work out. I have bipolar and I REALLY don't do well when my plans get messed up. I had severe depression and anxiety after Olivia and I really feel it was because of the obsession over planning a VBAC that ended up a c-section that did it. I don't think it was so much the c-section itself as I seem to heal really quickly. Within the first week I was out shopping, it was uncomfortable but not really a big deal. I don't know whether I want a VBAC because "I" want a VBAC or because Mothering and ICAN push it so much. More Mothering..I have a hard time with these boards because you don't know what is fact and what is their own agenda. Like for example I have bipolar as I mentioned and this baby will be getting supplementary formula and bottle feedings at night (every other feeding or something) so I can get rest. I go severely manic (rage) when I am sleep deprived. But with Olivia I would not give her bottles - it will ruin the breastfeeding relationship, it is just wrong and evil - at least that is what you believe reading on here. We need to truly do what is best for our families not what someon else says is best. When I picture a VBAC I picture this wonderful perfect birth with minimal pain and short labour and no tearing. yeah right! How often does that really happen? I had 22 hours of unmedicated labour with Olivia and I wanted to die! I still remember it, it was the most pain in my life! I gave up and headed to the hospital for an epidural and you know what? I would probably want an epidural again. Is it a vaginal birth I want or is the the PERFECT vaginal birth? The chances I would end up with this perfect birth no problems is really not that high. A part of me keeps coming back to really wanting to plan a c-section. I am a real type A personality, I like to plan everything. And with the bipolar, it just helps me feel in control of my life. We don't really have anyone to watch the kids here. My sister will but she has two autistic children and they would have to come with her. She wouldn't be able to stay for hours and hours. And if we ended up with a c-section I'd be at a hospital over an hour from home and DH would have to go home to be with the kids. If we planned a c-section we would have DH's family (parents and teen SIL) come up. They are so awesome with the kids and the kids love them. I trust them completely. They would have the kids outside building snowman, and making cookies, and drinking hot chocolate while reading stories. They would make the kids feel completely at ease. I could go to a spa the day before and have a nice massage (ahhhhhh) and get my nails done. I could take a nice big sleeping pill and have a good nights sleep the night before. I could go in prepared and have my kids prepared, special new toys and colouring books at home and what not. I could deliver in the small town hospital which is 4 minutes from my home. The doctor who delivered Elijah would deliver this one and he is amazing. He is so respectful. Even though Elijah was an emergency because I was soooo sick with pre-e he sat down with me and read over my c-section birth plan and when we in the OR he said "okay everybody she wants it quiet when the baby comes out" and everybody was quiet so Elijah heard our voices first. He ended up having real troubles and was airlifted to Ottawa but I know Dr. Lee would have done everything we preferred had he stayed. They only have private birthing and recovery rooms there and they are really nice so I would have a private room with out having to pay. I could have all my stuff ready in my room and have gifts for the kids "from the baby" and big sister and big brother t-shirts. And I know how I recover from c-sections. Even though with Elijah I hemoraged and ended up wit 3 blood transfusions I still recovered quickly. With both kids I was shopping within a week, took the babes to the chiropractor by 3 days old or so, and within 2-3 weeks I was a bit sore but pretty much back to normal. We were having sex within 4 weeks of the births (pretty much as soon as the bleeding stopped! ). After Olivia I only took advil and tylenol (staggered) and I was fine. I think after writing all this my heart really wants to plan a c-birth. It sure sounds like it huh? I'll have to do a lot of thinking on this. I know this is probably my last child (because of health issues) and I don't want to end up regretting never having a vaginal birth. But DH said maybe its not the vaginal birth I want but the calm and happy birth. I think a c-birth could do that for me. Also I loved what someone said on another board I am on. People talk about the "I am woman, hear me roar!" feeling after a vaginal birth, well "I am Mom, hear me roar," is a lot more important. The birth is just one day and we shouldn't lose our focus on that. Anyhoo now that your eyes are crossing from me writing so much I will sign off for now!

[greenmansions]

Heavenly, you & I seem to be going through some of the same "stuff" with VBAC vs. scheduling a c/s. I have still not decided what to do! But it's nice to hear someone else questioning whether VBAC is the best thing for them.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by OnTheFence

I think that goes for anything. Didn't you feel pressure to VBAC? I mean you were reading everything you could about it, coming here, talking to people in various forums about it and had this overall feeling that your cesareans were just this terrible god awful thing. Couldn't you say you fed that? I mean how many times have I read in these very forums the horrors of csections and how the risks are way over exagerrated. For the most part cesareans are safe, but if you go to ICAN or a VBAC site you may think that a cesareans could be equated with cutting a limb off or rape.

I've never been raped, but I understand why people here make that equation. I have been sexually abused, and my section felt worse than that. I'd go back to being a 12-year-old girl being groped by the school janitor in a second if it would somehow guarantee that I'd never be in the OR having my belly and uterus cut open. That's not because of pressure here - that's why I came here. I needed to talk to people who understand feeling that way.

The kind of pressure I was talking about in my other post wasn't the "VBAC is best" or even the "c-section is best" kind of thing. With my first section, I knew as soon as I'd regained enough consciousness to know my own name that I never, ever, ever wanted to go through that again. I don't really care if other people agree or disagree (although I could easily do without the "oh, that's the easy way" and "that's cheating" comments). I didn't want to ever have another section. I still don't...I tend to try to forget how Emma and Evan got here - almost like they magically appeared as part of my family.

The pressure I meant is much, much more subtle, and definitely messed with me. When I had Evan, I was living at my mom's (long story involving immigration screw-ups, my mom's astronomical mortgage, a couple of lay-offs, etc.). All through the pregnancy, an old family friend who lives upstairs (has part ownership of the house) kept expressing concern about what I was going to do, and whether I would agree to a section under any circumstances. She doesn't have kids, and doesn't know anything about pregnancy or childbirth, as she freely admits. She was just concerned. My mom, who I love and like dearly, commented that I was obsessed with the c-sections...while still agreeing totally that a VBA2C was the way to go. And, then...when I was about 38 weeks...my mom, my sister, the friend upstairs were all asking me several times a day "no baby yet?". The friend started with "I'm concerned. How long would you let this go...what will you do if you're late?". By the time my original EDD (u/s date was a week earlier) arrived, people had already behaving as though I was in the middle of an obstetrical crisis. On a gut level, I don't think I had any concerns. But, it's very difficult to live with people who are worrying about you constantly and voicing their concerns constantly without feeling as though something has gone horribly wrong. I have no doubt whatsoever that all that nonsense really weakened my resolve when my OB threatened to withdraw. They had me half-convinced that the baby really was in trouble. How can you pin down what your gut is telling you in a situation like that?

err...didn't mean for that to be an essay.

[ChattyCat]

Well, on this topic. Yes, I do feel judged around here for choosing a repeat csec. I'm so sick of hearing that if I'd gone off into the woods to birth my first baby that I wouldn't be in this situation. They're right, I'd probably be dead.

On a slightly different note, I'm feeling much better about my decision. Because I am the super anal obsessive type, I took in a birth plan to my 12 week prenatal visit today! Anyway, everything that I'd written down about my choices, my OB said ok. The only thing is that I need to contact the hospital about getting a mirror in the OR, but it shouldn't be a problem. I'm getting my choice of anesthesia, my arms won't be strapped down, I can have a pillow, I can see the placenta, dh and babe can stay with me, I'm getting stapled, etc. So, I'm much calmer now that I know that I still get to control a lot about what's going to happen. It somehow seems a little less scary.

Also, I had been leaning towards waiting for labor to start, but then I did some more research and read an article from the NEJM from last year. And, now I'm leaning more towards scheduling. My OB mentioned last visit that she'd like to schedule me at 39 weeks, but today she said if I decided that I do want to schedule I can wait until 40. Again, I feel like I'm getting more control, and I'm able to relax a bit more.

Maybe this all seems silly, but I'm excited by small victories!

[its_our_family]

Small victories are a lot to be excited about! (especially in the OR!)

My hospital didn't have a mirror They forgot to order it for me We also forgot about the placenta. My OB thought it was an odd request but she didn't care one way or the other.

[ChattyCat]

Originally Posted by its_our_family

We also forgot about the placenta. My OB thought it was an odd request but she didn't care one way or the other.

My OB looked at me a little funny about that. She said "It's disgusting, but okay."

On the mirror, I'm assuming the hospital has one. They remodeled their birthing area last year. While not truly crunchy, they seem really big on getting your business. Meaning, they seem to want to do whatever they can to make their *guests* happy. So, considering the tour I took. I'm thinking that they probably have them for the vaginal LDR rooms, if people request them. I hope I'm not wrong.

[mamabeth]

small victories are good! And I think that as long as anyone is informed, it's your body and your choice. My problem is when I hear that "they" made someone schedule a c-sec and they didn't know they had other options, you know?

The doc was a little weirded out by the placenta request but people keep them all the time after vaginal deliveries, so they just packed it up for us.

I didn't want a mirror, but it was great to see the baby right after delivery as requested and to hold him ASAP. It made all the difference to me between this c-sec and the last. Also to not have fentanyl in my IV before the delivery, so I was totally "there" and knew what was going on.

Question...when did your steri-strips come off? I couldn't remember from last time and mine are starting to be loose but I think it would hurt to peel them off now (2 weeks pp).

[ChattyCat]

They took out my staples and put on steri strips on day 3 after the surgery. They told me that they should fall off after about a week, and if they didn't I could take them off. I think I waited almost a whole week longer. They were stuck on there really well. Even then, I had to get in the shower and soak them first. But, by then it really didn't hurt to pull them off. Less than a bandaid.

Honestly, I had a really horrible labor. But, the csec itself really went well. I felt like crap for a long time. But, I really wonder how much of that was from the insane labor I had and not a direct result of the csec.

I'm hoping that this one goes better emotionally and physically. At least, this time I'll be mentally prepared for it. I went into my first one under the misguided view that since I had prepared myself so well for the natural, vaginal birth that there was no way I would have a csec. And, then the labor just beat my body up. So, I'm thinking this time, I've had a while to accept the birth in advance. And, even if I go into labor first, I don't plan on laboring for days and pushing for almost 7 hours. So, I think that should help speed up my recovery.

[Ben's Mommy]

momma2emerson - Congrats on the small victories! I'm trying to negotiate my own future c-sec (not currently pg, but ttc). My question is who makes the decisions about whether or not you get to have the baby in recovery, and whether or not you can recover in your own room? Is it the hospital or the OB?? I asked my OB and he said that we couldn't. I'd have to recover in a seperate room, and wouldn't have the baby till after I was after recovery. I'm hoping I can wear him down over the term of my future pregnancy, or maybe override his decision in the hospital. Any advice or suggestions would be much appreciated.

[ChattyCat]

Oh, I don't know. I think those things are usually hospital rules. At least, that's been my experience. Luckily, the hospital ds was born at was super crunchy. And, here they just want our business. The only thing here that bugs me is that for morning rounds the pediatricians prefer that the babes go to the nursery to get checked, but dh just plans on telling them no. As far as recovery though, it's standard here to let the baby stay unless you have general anesthesia or the baby is in trouble. Which in either of those circumstances, I could understand the baby leaving the room. I hope you get some better answers or can go elsewhere to birth. I would be very disappointed with those rules.

Ben's Mommy- Oh, I just noticed your sig. How tragic! I am so very sorry for your loss.

[Heavenly]

I swear I am going to flip my lid. Of all the arrogant...

This is written by someone else but I figure since it is about me then I have the right to post it. This is from someone on ICAN.

"I LOVE WATCHING M try and educate Shawna about hospital births. I remember being in M's shoes, when I tried to educate her, to draw her out regarding her choice to hospital vbac. I didn't convince M, and she probably won't convince Shawna. (Have to
admit I did chuckle a bit) But M convinced herself. And that is the
big piece here. Really it wasn't me. If you notice, I don't even think I
said a word to Shawna. AT some point, for many women, this goes beyond
opinion. There is a very deep truth, that is deeper than most of us can
express. M went on and had that hospital VBAC even though I tried to
convince her to STAY OPEN. . It wasn't until afterwards that the light went
on for her...glaring at her was her sil's uterine rupture...and she's
thinking out of hospital birth. NOw does that make sense? Wouldn't you
think, if her sil had a uterine rupture she'd be MORE likely to BIRTH AGAIN
in a hosptial?" It goes on (and on) about the ultimate goal being a homebirth (at all costs it seems).

I am ready to b!tch slap someone, I swear. And I am not a violent person. how incredibly arrogant that this person finds it amusing that someone is trying to "educate" me. Because I obviously must be stupid to choose to birth in a hospital or maybe even schedule a c-section. I couldn't possibly have my own reasons and know more about my life that this person. Oh no, of course not! Who made this person the authority on birth? Why do they get to decide who is educated and who isn't? I am so glad she can get a chuckle out of someone trying to "educate" dumb little ol' me. Because of course unless I come to the ultimate conclusion that a homebirth is the only good choice then I am uneducated and unenlightened. No they won't convince me to do what they want. I have done the research and have come to my own conclusions. I am a smart woman, I have a genius level IQ for crying out loud! Why is it assumed that because after doing TONS of research that I didn't come to the same conclusion as them and therefore I must be uneducated? See, this is what I am talking about. This is the attitude that makes me think people like this aren't educated. They are certainly not enlightened. How small your world must be when only one possible way of doing things is seen as the supreme (and only REAL) choice? They can continue to feel sorry for me, that is their perogative. But at the same time I am feeling sorry for them that their is so much hostility in them regarding their births. I find that truly sad. That a home vaginal birth is seen as the ultimate experience that they are obsessed with to the point that they have to believe anyone choosing another choice in uneducated, well that is just sad. If that is what they need to believe to feel safe and right in their world then that's just fine. I don't mind being fodder for discussion, especially when I know my own heart and I know the path I have travelled. Carry on ICAN people...

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by momma2emerson

They took out my staples and put on steri strips on day 3 after the surgery. They told me that they should fall off after about a week, and if they didn't I could take them off. I think I waited almost a whole week longer. They were stuck on there really well. Even then, I had to get in the shower and soak them first. But, by then it really didn't hurt to pull them off. Less than a bandaid.

First section: Steri-strips were almost impossible to get off. I just tugged at them a little after each bath (they were starting to annoy me), and gradually they came off, one at a time. I think the last one was about three weeks pp!

Second section: I'm not sure, but it seems that they started to come off after about five or six days...last one came off at about 1.5 weeks pp.

Third section: They were a joke. I had to baby them to keep them on at all. I was sitting directly in the hot sun in the hospital and pouring sweat the whole three days, then my incision didn't close properly and became infected. I don't think the strips ever did stick properly, because my skin was so soaked with sweat.

The staples don't bother me at all. But, I'm not that fond of the strips - they itch.

[mommy2girlies]

heavenly~im sorry that you're having so much trouble w/ some of the ladies at ICAN. i've never been to that website, so im pretty much "uneducated" sorry, i just had to! im glad that you aren't that bothered by that lady. she obviously has problems if she thinks her way is the only and right way for every single woman. very egocentric!!

mommy2emerson~im glad you got some things pre-planned. that must feel like a huge weight has been lifted! w/ carson, i got to hold her the minute they were done suturing me. but my arm was strapped down during the section and that i would change if i have to do it again!! i hated that! made me feel claustrophobic if that makes sense..

i've chosen to vbac this little one we're having in june. for me, it seems my best option. i had kya vaginally w/ no problems and carson was sectioned cuz the cord was around her neck twice and tight and didn't let her descend into the birth canal and her kept decelerating. my ob thinks that a vbac is a good option for me and so do i. i'd be very miffed at someone if they judged my reason to birth the way i want to. just like i wouldn't judge someone else. birthing a baby is a very personal thing and i can't imagine someone telling me that my way was wrong!!

[Ben's Mommy]

momma2emerson - Thanks for the advice. I'm not too worried yet, since I'm not pg right now. I think I'll wait till after the "hospital tour" and see how that goes. I will be birthing at a different hospital, which I think is more crunchy than my previous one. I'm hoping that if I tell them the circumstances of my last birth, that they may be "nicer" to me and let me have my baby in recovery. I think my OB might just be "quoting" the rules, but hopefully they can be broken or at least bent.

heavenly - I am so sorry everyone is giving you such a hard time! When it comes time for me to birth my second baby I don't think I'll be advertising my decision, just so I won't get slack from anyone. It's hard enough researching and deciding what is best for you, to then have someone judge what you feel is best for you and your family. I'd just try and stay away from the people who are bringing you down.

[chantald]

Shawna: for you. How truly egocentric of that person. How to birth is such a personal decision.. yet so many others feel they have the right to push their ideas/ideals on others. I am so sorry. I would be very angry too.
I truly wish that all women had the right to choose how to birth (sadly many don't).. I don't think that everyone should birth the same way.. does that make sense?
I agree with Sandy, surround yourself with support and don't listen to others who are not willing to respect your choices. No one should judge someone else for the choices that they make.. they are not in the other person's shoes..

s

Chantal

[Heavenly]

Well I am about 90% at the decision to schedule a c-birth (changing the terminology in my brain). I am so thankful to have this thread because it is very difficult to find any support in this issue. There are many issues which I have written about (extensively ) on here. I just think it will be best for everyone involved. I am just not willing to risk the uterine rupture at a hospital without 24/7 emergency services. 1% sounds so small but to me it sounds huge. Like I always say if someone gave me a gun with 100 chambers and only put 1 bullet in would I hold the gun to Olivia's head or Elijah's head knowing there was a 1 in 100 chance I could kill them? Not on your life. I just can't take the risk. I am not cutting up anyone who feels differently, this is just how I feel. Ugh gotta run, I'll finish this message in a minute (potty accident....no, not me!! )