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Adoption Criticism - Page 3

post #41 of 152
I don't think it's anyone's business. If you want to educate them, go ahead and answer the questions. If you don't, then don't.

My dd1 is very dark like her father and I'm white. I've gotten the comments from people assuming she's adopted or that I'm her au pair. I've come up with some smart answers for them. With dd2 I got all the questions and lectures about her feeding tube and did I try this or that to help her? (Like oh darn! If I had just tried goat's milk then she wouldn't have needed the tube.)

People are just nosey. Why not start asking them some very personal questions and see how they react? Seriously. People need to get a clue sometimes.

----
BTW we are done having bio kids but if we have a desire for more, we will adopt from India. I have been a part of the foster system as a child and I would not want to go that route to adopt a child.
post #42 of 152
I am not saying the damage is worse but my daughter lived in the same city as I did, 10 minutes away. She has an attachment disorder and basically I think the foster care system here sucks!!! I think an orphanage may be beter than being shuffled around to different foster homes...
post #43 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopeland
I think an orphanage may be beter than being shuffled around to different foster homes...
It's not a contest of who has it worse, of course, but have you actually seen any orphanages??

Namaste!
post #44 of 152
sitara,
I think you were kidding but set my mind at ease would you?
post #45 of 152
artgirl,
I'm really not sure what you mean, I was in no way joking what so ever. I don't believe in adoption.
post #46 of 152
If you don't believe in adoption what would you do with homeless children?
post #47 of 152
I think the additional question is, Sitara, would you have prefered to grow up homeless, than in a family? I'm sorry that your childhood was so awful.
post #48 of 152
First of all, my childhood wasn't awful.
Second, Adoption isn't the only way to provide a child with a home. There are other ways of bringing children ( who need a home away from their natural families ) into your home to care for them without adopting them.

Adoption violates the civil rights of the adopted. My rights have been violated, in order to full-fill my now adoptive parents dreams of having a child. I am not here to full-fill others dreams. It is not right that they changed my name when I already had one, that I have a fake birth certificate that says my adoptive parents are my parents of live birth. Its not okay that the govt. stamped illegitamte across my real birth certificate and sealed it away from me. Its not okay that even after the age of 18 I had to get my adoptive parents "approval" to get my information from the courts.

If my natural mother had been given the amount of support to keep me, that she was to surrender me certainly we would have been together. I know this first hand because we are in contact on a regular basis.

I can't tell you how many times I have heard "i'm sorry you had such a bad childhood" from another adoptive parent, when they find out i don't believe in adoption. Instead of asking me why, they assume its because my adoptive parents were horrible people or my childhood was horrible. If its not this comment its "you should be greatful you know the alternative don't you? abortion, or being homeless."

my natural mother could have raised me, wanted to raise me, should have raised me. But instead was told that two parent families were better than one. That money meant more to raising a child than a mothers love. My aparents were divorced when i was very young so I was raised in a one parent household anyways. my natural mother was married shortly after my surrender, and is still married to this day. She has a stable job and is financially well off. Adoption in my case, was a permanent solution to a temporary problem. It was unecessary.

daughter calling, will write more later if necessary.
post #49 of 152
Sitara, I have done a lot of reading on "anti-adoption" websites, so I am familiar with the reasons you have given for being against adoption, and I understand them. One thing I have noticed, however, is that in the things I have read about being against adoption, the people who have written have based their opinion pretty much solely on the circumstances of their adoption and others similar to theirs, not on the very idea that that kids thrive best in permanent, loving homes.

I am well aware that there are abuses in adoption. I think (I hope!) you would be hard-pressed to find an adoptive family who honestly believes that adoption is better for a child than growing up in a biological family. But sometimes, adoption is the best option for a child, and I have a hard time understanding why people are against "adoption" rather than being against sealed records, coercion of birthmothers, lack of adequate financial assistance for poor and single-parent families, etc.

Namaste!
post #50 of 152
dharmamama, you are very eloquent. You expressed what I was thinking, but couldn't quite put the words too.
post #51 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sitara
First of all, my childhood wasn't awful.
Second, Adoption isn't the only way to provide a child with a home. There are other ways of bringing children ( who need a home away from their natural families ) into your home to care for them without adopting them..

Sitara I find your post very interesting and I thank you for sharing your views on this. I am really interested in your views on what alternatives you think are best for children in the long term besides adoption. In particular, a situation of a birth parent who cannot care for the child, or has been seriously neglectful or abusive to the child. I can truly see how unfair your situation feels since your birth mom did not have the resources to make an adequate choice. The whole older child adoption system functions on the premise that permanency is desirable when a child can't be with their birth parent. Do you think this is true?

YOu've caused me to do some thinking....
post #52 of 152
If you use the idea of adoptive parents adopt children in order to become parents and fullfill their dreams then that is true of all mothers and fathers. In a way becoming a parent in any manner is selfish. I have guardianship of a 6 year old...she is not adopted which is a legal issue. I often wonder if I keep things the way they are if she will feel less than or somethign because I ddidnt adopt her. I have to explain to almost everyone why I have guardianship rather than adoption. Then they ask am I going to keep her as if just because I dont have a finalized adoption piece of paper I do not intend to be her mother forever. She had a birth mother who was 15 years old, neglectful, on drugs, and who abandoned her at a laundramat when she was 18 months old. She then had a foster mother who adopted her at the age of 3 then decided when she was 5 that she didnt want her anymore. So now I am basically her third mother and she is left with deep scars of abandonment.
post #53 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by dharmamama
Sitara, I have done a lot of reading on "anti-adoption" websites, so I am familiar with the reasons you have given for being against adoption, and I understand them. One thing I have noticed, however, is that in the things I have read about being against adoption, the people who have written have based their opinion pretty much solely on the circumstances of their adoption and others similar to theirs, not on the very idea that that kids thrive best in permanent, loving homes.
I'm not adopted, but my father and DH are, and I'm against adoption.

Quote:
But sometimes, adoption is the best option for a child,
No. As you said, a "permanent, loving home" is the best option for a child. That doesn't have to be obtained through the legal instrument we call adoption.

Quote:
I have a hard time understanding why people are against "adoption" rather than being against sealed records, coercion of birthmothers, lack of adequate financial assistance for poor and single-parent families, etc.
This is a very fair question, and you'd get many different answers from different people. My answer: Adoption requires termination of parental rights. It terminates the legal relationship between natural mother and child without the child's consent. (In many cases where children are taken into foster care by DFS, it's without the birth parent(s) consent as well.) I am treading very carefully here because I am both new and in a forum that is setup as a pro-adoption space, so I think I'll just say that I would prefer to see a revised system of guardianships, or even permanent guardianships.
post #54 of 152
wow, a civil discussion on adoption, where my views are actually heard...AMAZING.

I agree that children thrive best in permanent loving homes, I don't feel that it takes adoption to provide that.

To me, coersion of pregnant mothers, lack of assistance to parents in poverty, violation of the adopteds rights etc. THAT is adoption. Adoption to me is an industry built on money. I've seen quotes where the adoption industry made over a billion dollars off of the sales of children. I was sold. I was bought. and I was cheaper than another baby because I'm only 1/4 white. An agency, who I have no ties with other than my natural mother chose them to work with, profitted off of my adoption. THAT was their incentive.

If my parents truly wanted to give me a loving home, why didn't they adopt my natural mother too? She has never been a danger to me, she has never neglected me, I was born a healthy loved child. Why wasn't she welcome? Why couldn't she have become the adoptee, and they could help raise their new adopted grandchild? Why? because it wasn't about me, it was about them and their dreams. When it should ALWAYS be about the childs needs. What is best for the child, even if it means, its not what you dreamed of, how can we provide for the children what they truly need.

Some children who are adopted, don't get permanence or love, but have still been adopted. Its not the act of adoption that gives the child this (permanence and loving homes), its the act of caretaking and honoring the childs real needs.

Just like another poster here, my amother has told me that she thought her love would be enough to move me on from my adoption. She doesn't understand it fully. Only in adoption are people expected to move on from the loss of not only a mother, but an entire life really.

If I tell someone who doesn't know me " i lost my mother at birth " they assume she died in labor, and immediately people understand what a great loss that is or would be. Immediately I am given a sense of empathy and great compassion for what I have endured. Now when I tell someone I was adopted as an infant and seperated from my mother at 3 days old suddenly the understanding has left, and immediately I'm told "OH how lucky you are. How WONDERFUL" Its as if society expects me to be greatful, that I endured a severe loss. Just sweep the bad under the carpet and smile with the rest of us, because, you helped build a family and make an infertile couples dreams come true. :

I do infact have a friend who's mother died when she was very young. Her and I share many issues that are so similar. The major differences are, she has been allowed to grieve her loss, and remain the person she was when she was in her mothers arms. And her family doesn't expect their love towards my friend to get her to move on from the loss of her mother. Only support her through whatever trials she is going through. THAT is love to me. That is providing someone with a loving home. That is honesty about what happened to her, to allow her to heal, and deal with the reality of her situation, and that is family.

And there are some adopted people who are happy to carry their adoptive parents last names, I however, believe it should be their choice not somebody else's because they "dreamed" their child would have that name.

A friend of mine was raised by his stepfather, he chose to take his stepfathers last name when he was a teenager, because he grew to love him as a father, he wanted to carry his last name. But do you see the difference, that came second to the love. It was his choice. It wasn't forced upon him. Sometimes in my situation, i feel that the love came second. My aparents were encouraged to do this, told this was the procedure, they never questioned it, because it was as close to having their own child as they would ever get. I may have been 6 months old, but they could still re-name me, have a birth certificate with their names on it, and call themselves mom and dad the day we met face to face. And as long as I kept up with that reality, things went fine.

Creating judgement on a system like adoption soley on your own experience is common with alot of people involved in adoption. Adoptive parents, natural parents, and adopted people. How many times have you heard adoptive parents say "adoption is wonderful" because they essentially built their family by adopting. I've heard it from many people involved in adoption by many different ways.

I have spoken to soooo many adoptees in person and online. I have a private online support group for adopted people only, and the things that are said behind those closed doors, its as if we're all writing from the same body and mind. Yet these same individuals, come out onto public message boards, and write a less open post. Maybe it stems from the adoptees need to please or insecurity or indebt feelings towards our adopters for taking us in, when nobody else was. So many factors can play into why this happens, i'm really not able to make a clear enough judgement, but all I know is when you get to the physical support groups, or online private groups for adoptees only, its a whole different world. One where there isn't much disagreement on core issues stemming from adoption at all. Where for the first time, these groups of people who have felt alone their entire life, suddenly are surrounded by people who understand and have the courage to speak their mind.

geeez where was I going from this, I don't know... I'm just trying to say I guess, that permanency, and a loving home can be offered to a child along with the truth and reality of their situation. That to me, adoption is the legalities that violated my rights. I'm a mature adult who can handle the truth of the circumstances to my beginnings, I am not a threat to my mother nor was she to me, i'm not in the witness protection program, therefore, i don't need a name change, a fake birth certificate, or my aparents signatures to obtain MY documents. I am not for sale, and never should have been financially profitted off of. And my race never should have played a factor into how much I could be obtained for then sealed away from me shortly after.

Betty Jean Lifton has written a great book that I connect with as do many other adopted people I have talked with. Its called Journey of the Adopted Self. There is also Primal Wound, and Coming home to self ( which I haven't read, but heard is good, and revealing ) by Nancy Verrier an adoptive mother.

Also an online friend of mine Joe Soll has written and co wrote 2 books "adoption healing a path to recovery for adoptees" and "adoption healing for natural mothers" ( haven't read the one for mothers but the first one was very healing for me)

I told myself I wouldn't do this, and I apologize for barging in on this thread, which wasn't even originally started for the topic I have clearly just type/rambled on for well over an hour here at my house. I hope I answered your questions, if anyone made it this far to the end of my post kuddos to you.

I need to get some zzzzzzz's.

namaste'
post #55 of 152
Sitara,
Thank you.

Its funny because I have been considering adoption. I've been doing a little research and some reading and have been coming around to a similar conclusion. By that I mean that it's become clear to me that our system is out of whack. I agree with what you are saying about supporting the bio moms instead of *taking* their children and placing them in other families. It really struck me when I contacted an international adoption agency and they suggested that I agree to sponsor a child as well as adopt one. Hmmm... If I sponsor a child does that mean that in theory they could remain with their birth family? Probably not in this case, but why not make a program like that?

The book I've been reading is written by an adoptee and she writes so eloquently about the loss of a birth mom. I am in tears through the whole thing. She advocates open adoption though, instead of being opposed to all adoption. Because, although it may not have been true in your case, there are some bio moms that do NOT want their babies. There are some cases where the bio parents die... what then? Are we splitting hairs here with the terminology? Is it the WORD adoption and what it *historically* meant that bothers you?

The author of this book advises adoptive mothers (parents) to facilitate grieving, to always be honest with the child, to give all information, to celebrate the uniqueness of the child, to meet the child in their sorrow and let them know it's okay, to freely talk about the child's birth family, etc. How do you feel about that?

I agree with what you're saying about changing a child's name, falsifying birth certificates, keeping information hidden. I don't think it's right. I think it's sad. But, that being said, what if I want to bring another child into my home (and I already have two bio kids so it's not an issue of wanting to "make MY dreams come true") because I have a big, huge, warm, soft spot for children and I want to give what I have? What if I did it in the way I spoke of above? Openly, freely, honestly? Would you be against that? Because that's what I'm calling adoption. Should I rename what I'd like to do? I have a loving family, a warm house, and enough food. I am not abusive. I have a college education and can provide all of these things for a child that would have none of it otherwise? Plus, I think I have the spiritual/philosophical strength to creatively, openly parent an adopted child.

For me, part of considering adoption was to consider WHY I want to adopt and what I expected from the adoption. I quickly realized that I'd better be willing and able to *give*, no strings attached. I had better want to do it for the sake of the child, not for any gains that I may get and that if I couldn't, then not to adopt. I'd better go into it knowing that the child I adopt may never love me, that I may provide for them and then have them leave when they are of age. I'd better be ready for heartbreak. I'd better be able to give my heart freely without any return. Hopefully that would not be the case but I know that it could be.

I look at my bio children and hope that if they had no one, a loving mother would *adopt* them and have the strength to give them what they need. I'd hate to think of them in an orphanage or shuffled from home to home. It also breaks my heart to think of them missing their bio mom. I think how lucky they are that they were born and stayed with, the mother they were *expecting*. They hear the heartbeat and voice, smell the smell they were used to in the womb. I can understand how adopted children mourn that loss, even if they were adopted when they were infants.

AND I do have a problem with people making money off the sale of infants. And that there are price differences for different types of kids. And I do wonder, especially internationally, how many babies are taken from mothers, or coherced away from mothers who have nothing. But how do we fix that?

I'm really rambling here. I hope you don't mind. I just really have some questions. I am good intentioned... but so, I'm sure, was your adoptive mom and I can see that good intentions don't always cut it.

There ARE babies out there that could benefit from the home I have to offer (and many other adoptive moms). Do you not see what a blessing that is? Is there a way to do it? I'm open. I really am.
post #56 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by artgirl
If I sponsor a child does that mean that in theory they could remain with their birth family? Probably not in this case, but why not make a program like that?
There are at least two programs out there that do this: World Vision and Blue Nile Children's Fund. Save the Children might offer this as well.

Sitara, thanks for your long and thoughtful response. I do disagree with some of the things that you said, but I respect your well-considered opinion and your willingness to share it.

I do want to point out that one of the reasons that adoption as it exists today evolved (just one of the many reasons) is to ensure that adopted children are treated equally under the law in matters of inheritance and entitlement, something that doesn't automatically happen in guardianship.

Namaste!
post #57 of 152
I also would like to thank everyone who has posted so thoughtfully. It's nice to have a civil discussion about this; I know it's hard because of all the emotion involved.

I will just say that as an adoptive mom, I am trying my best to remain open to ALL the possible ways my daughter might react to her situation. I have encountered adult adoptees that would express very similar views to Sitara, as well as those who feel very positive about their adoption experience, and many who are somewhere in between. I feel like it's important to not force or expect my daughter to always feel positive about being adopted, regardless of how good my intentions were, or how I feel about it.
post #58 of 152
I think that the adoption community is working to address many of the issues that you are concerned about, Sitara, but there is the small matter of funding and people needing to give a shit about social issues when they go to vote. I appreciate what you have written (don't agree with all of it)and you are giving me lots to think about. I have to pick my son up from school......



L.
post #59 of 152
Thank you for your thoughts, Sitara! You write beautifully, thoughtfully and understandably, and have offered us all much to consider and think about.

I am planning to adopt a daughter, and yes, it is because I want to be a mother and this feels like the "right" way to go about it for me - selfish reasons, I admit. I am SO thankful to have your words and experience to help prepare me for the experience - I know that no matter how much I love my daughter and how much I want her life to be wonderful, she may be very angry with me some day for adopting her and taking her from her home country and culture. There will be money involved, and she may feel "bought", understandably. She may end up opposing adoption. She may end up adopting a child herself. She may feel conflicted, and not really know what she thinks about it.

I can only follow the path I feel led to take, support and love my daughter, acknowledge her loss, allow her to grieve, and accept her for who she is, no matter what. And never, ever expect her to feel "grateful". Nothing that will happen to her involving adoption is her decision in any way. They are MY decisions, and my responsibility.

So much to think about...
post #60 of 152
Sitara, thank you.
This thread started out with crazy rude things that ignorant people say to adoptive parents. And I feel like the ignorant one because I didn't know people could be against adoption at all.

You are so right about needing to grieve and being allowed to grieve and the name changing, and companies profiting from the buying and selling of infants. It is terrible.

Thank you.