New Posts  All Forums:
 

Adoption Criticism - Page 5

post #81 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hells_Belle
TinkerBelle, I can't help looking at these two comments side by side:



vs.



...which certainly is not respectful.

I couldn't agree more that adoption laws need to change. But I've been respectful about expressing my view that it needs to change to protect the rights of the natural mother and the rights of the child. I could have come in to this exchange saying "Birth mothers are often treated like unglorified baby delivery machines", but I don't think that's constructive.


I see your point and I was not meaning to insult anyone. I understand there are instances where birth mothers have been forced to give up children. But, nowadays they are not. At least in the US. There is all kinds of help and resources for those wanting to keep children.

I just get my dander up in cases where the adoptive parent did nothing wrong, except adopt a child, and they are cut to the quick, as in my example in my post above.

You do not have to worry about the laws protecting the birth mothers and fathers: they already exist. Unless things have changed since the last time I looked, which has been awhile, birth parents have a whole year to take back their babies.

What I think should happen is not to place the babies with permnanent homes until the birth parent's time to make the final decision has been made and papers signed. That way, the birth parent gets to exercise their rights better and the adoptive parents do not get their hearts ripped out in the process.
post #82 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinkerBelle
birth parents have a whole year to take back their babies.
I have NEVER heard this. In many states, birthparents have as little as 72 hours to change their minds.

Quote:
What I think should happen is not to place the babies with permnanent homes until the birth parent's time to make the final decision has been made and papers signed.
This is not in the best interest of children. Assuming that kids go to only one foster home while waiting for the birthparents' right to reclaim their child expires, this would mean that the kids now have had three different families. That's not good for attachment.

Namaste!
post #83 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinkerBelle
I see your point and I was not meaning to insult anyone.
thank you

Quote:
I understand there are instances where birth mothers have been forced to give up children. But, nowadays they are not. At least in the US. There is all kinds of help and resources for those wanting to keep children.
I agree; I'm less concernd about domestic adoptions in the US, especially open adoptions. I'm still have concerns about international adoptions, where so many records are easily falsified, mothers can be culturally, financially and physically coerced, etc.

Just as a point of reference - in the UK, closed domestic adoptions are illegal. All domestic adoptions MUST be open adoptions. I'm a lot more comfortable with that, but while it's (for me) a desireable goal for international adoptions, I admit the implementation would be a complete nightmare.

Quote:
I just get my dander up in cases where the adoptive parent did nothing wrong, except adopt a child, and they are cut to the quick, as in my example in my post above.
Oh God, yes. I have tremendous sympathy for everyone in a situation like that. I agree that for the best interests of the child, those situations need to be avoided.

Quote:
What I think should happen is not to place the babies with permnanent homes until the birth parent's time to make the final decision has been made and papers signed. That way, the birth parent gets to exercise their rights better and the adoptive parents do not get their hearts ripped out in the process.
Well, if we're all agreed that the best interests of the child are first and foremost, then I myself would not be on board with that. Have you ever read The Primal Wound ? Six weeks seems to be a fairly critical transition point. If adoption is the best option for a given woman, and for a child, I'd prefer to see those placements take place as quickly as she can cope with. I completely recognise that that is my preference and an idealised scenario that can't be played out in every circumstance.

The truth is, I just don't think there are any solutions that work perfectly for everone. I'm also not sure how much more I contribute without getting into the nitty-gritty issues of adoption and I don't want to do that in a forum that exists to support adopting parents - I don't think that would be respectful.
post #84 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinkerBelle
I understand there are instances where birth mothers have been forced to give up children. But, nowadays they are not. At least in the US.
I don't agree with this at all. I think there are plenty of instances where young women/girls are pressured by their families to place their babies for adoption. Indeed, we saw that played out on national television when Barbara Walters did her "open adoption" show and the young girl, Jessica, wanted to keep her baby and her STEPFATHER said no.

In addition, although I know that open adoption is much, much better than closed adoption, I worry about birthmothers developing extremely close relationships with potential adoptive families before the baby is born and then feeling too much pressure and guilt to change their minds once the baby is born. I worry about birthmothers feeling obligated to give up their babies when a potential adoptive family has spent thousands of dollars on birthmother support and hospital bills.

Namaste!
post #85 of 152
Quote:
I think there are plenty of instances where young women/girls are pressured by their families to place their babies for adoption.
I agree. It definitely happens. The opposite is also true--women and girls can be pressured to parent babies that they don't feel prepared to parent. That is the one thing that would concern me about doing away with adoption.

Quote:
In addition, although I know that open adoption is much, much better than closed adoption, I worry about birthmothers developing extremely close relationships with potential adoptive families before the baby is born and then feeling too much pressure and guilt to change their minds once the baby is born.
I think this is possible too. Although I think that after birth, a mother's drive to remain with her baby is so strong that even this would be rare. I think a birth mom must generally *know* deep within herself that placing is the right thing to do in her situation, otherwise she would never ever have strength to do it. I have numerous friends who have pursued open adoptions and have had relationships with birthparents prior to the baby's birth, only to have the birth mother change her mind, which is her right.

In mentioning these examples, I am of course keeping in mind the need for a birth mother to *freely* choose adoption. The adoptive parents involved, the agency, her own family and friends--all of these people must tread extremely carefully and make sure that she is allowed to make and carry out her own decision.

With our son's birthmother, we didn't meet her or know her in any way until 3 weeks before her due date. Because she lived in another state and our contact was only through letters, I don't think our relationship was close enough that it would have influenced her decision. With the birthmother we just finished working with, our relationship was extremely close. She was a member of our son's birthfamily and we knew her prior to her asking us to adopt her baby. Our relationship was far more open and more intense than it was in the case of our son. But this young woman still had the courage to tell us that she felt she should choose a different family. I can only hope that it was in part because we were careful to never infringe on her choices. But I also know from what she has told us that she knew in her heart she would never have the strength to place her baby unless she was totally certain it was the right family.
post #86 of 152
" Unless things have changed since the last time I looked, which has been awhile, birth parents have a whole year to take back their babies."

Agreeing with Dharmamama--I don't know of any state where this is the case. In my state, once her rights are terminated, the decision is irrevocable. In the state from which our ds was adopted, his birth mom had 30 days to change her mind, and that is one of the longer time periods that I've heard about.

"What I think should happen is not to place the babies with permnanent homes until the birth parent's time to make the final decision has been made and papers signed. "

I'm not sure this is in the best interests of babies either. As an adoptive parent, I'm willing to take the risk of getting hurt, but when my ds's birthmom had 30 days to change her mind and his birthfather's rights weren't terminated until he was 3 months old, I still didn't want this little baby to have to be in foster care. I wanted to get him home and get the attachment process started as quickly as possible. I was willing to take the legal and emotional risk. The risk of getting hurt is just part of adoption. In saying that, I don't minimize how much it can hurt. I've just been through a failed adoption, and I have friends who have been through some that were far more traumatic than mine. But I recognize and accept the risk. I think if adoptive parents do their best to make ethically and morally sound decisions, know their legal rights and the birth parents legal rights and respect them, then in virtually all cases the outcome will be alright. Of course there are a very few cases in which this doesn't happen, but I don't spend time worrying about that. If it happened, I would deal with it. It's not something I worry about, though, because I know that I haven't tried to shove aside anybody else's rights or to sneak around the legal system.
post #87 of 152
Well, I will definitely check into the adoption laws, but I do know that about 6 yrs ago, FL did have a law that gave birth mothers up to a year to change their minds.
post #88 of 152
I decided to delete my former post because I am not going to go round and round on this issue.

God bless moms who gave life to babies and then gave the most special gift to a mom who might not have been able to have her own children. God bless adoptive parents as well.

Last but definitely not least, God bless the children.
post #89 of 152
I don't think you should have to defend yourself against criticism of any kind. It really is none of their business what your decisions or reasons are. Some people are just so rude!
post #90 of 152
I have been reading this thread with great interest and a lot of respect for everyone involved. Warning, this is long. I have been trying to put my thoughts together on this for a while, and there is a lot on my mind.

Having foster parented for the last several years, I have seen this issue from a number of different perspectives.

The first child I foster parented was fifteen years old. His parents had seven children, and he was in the middle. Due to severe abuse and neglect that started in-utero (it is very likely his birth mother was drinking alcohol throughout her pregnancies), he was finally after five torturous years, removed from his parents' home along with the rest of his siblings. He suffered through another six years of intense effort by the state to reunite his family. During that time he was bounced around from home to home (by the time he came to live with us at 15, we were his twenty-third home), while the process dragged on and his parents were offered services and visitations to which they often didn't show. Preparing for visitations and then living through the betrayal of parents who didn't show was among many facets of his trauma. In the end, his parents simply did not have the ability to parent without abusing their children at least in the timeframe of his childhood, for whatever very tragic reason, and when he was eleven years old, his parents' rights were terminated.

That legal event was but a footprint of a very, very profound loss that had been occurring for him for years. That marker, that legal event, did have one positive effect. Rather than having parents in and out of his life (more out than in), making promises to get him back-- promises they must have known on some level they wouldn't keep-- handing him their own dramas and giving him their adult issues, even blaming him for his getting taken into foster care...because they had a legal right to access him, to come in and out of his life...he finally was able to have "birth parents." He could be told that his parents weren't able to parent him, that they tried but couldn't learn how to parent, that they just didn't have the ability. He could be told the honest-to-goodness truth. And he had the opportunity to free himself-- as much as humanly possible (which is never entirely)-- from what proved to be the fantasy that somehow they would get it together and make it work and give him the life he dreamed of, so that he could begin grieving his whole loss.

His parents had made themselves utterly unavailable, starting before their parental rights were terminated, but we tried to give him what information we could and sought as many more answers (and photos) as we could through connections that we did have. We encouraged him to put up the two pictures he had of his mother around the house, when he talked about wanting to. We were honest with him and compassionate toward his parents, who I have no doubt loved him despite their inability to gain the skills to parent safely and to engage in treatment. At one point we went with him to his childhood town for a court hearing to review his case plan. We had lunch in town and he told us about what he could remember. We listened and were there for him to hear his grief. He cried hard afterward, on the way home, moaning for his mommy. Telling us how badly he wanted her. His pain wasn't from the termination of parental rights. His pain was there long before his parental rights had been terminated. I know this wasn't his first time crying on the way back from his hometown. He talked about crying himself to sleep for as long as he could remember, from as early as five or six.

His pain was from his mother not having the ability to parent him. His pain was from wanting her so badly and knowing that she would never make herself available to him because after all these years she hadn't. His pain was from the fact that for years he was in the foster care system, sometimes in abusive group homes, and no one-- not his parents of birth, not other biological family members, not adoptive parents-- came to save him.

It seems to me that termination of parental rights, in foster care, at least, is often the humane thing to do in a tragic and sad situation. As foster parents, we have become accustomed to what happens when termination doesn't happen for years even when it is inevitable: which is the ongoing, painful, constant "rejection" a child feels when the parents hang on tooth and nail to rights that they are only willing or able to access without commitment to the longterm. That the parents have the right to visits, but can choose to show up or not. Can make the effort to show up or not. Can be successful or unsucessful at showing up. And still the child thinks, "if they love me, they will show up." And each time the parent doesn't show up, doesn't follow through with services offered to them, etc. etc., the child's sense of self is diminished. Sometimes biological connection doesn't empower a child to develop a sense of self. It only is a wounding to their sense of self.

When this child was placed in our home, we made the agreement to be a permanent placement for him. The therapeutic foster care agency he was in at that time did not do adoption, though we asked and would have been open to it. We knew that our "permanent placement" commitment extended through his lifetime, and we accepted that he would need assisted living services and our constant support and advocacy even in adulthood. We were a family. We bonded in our relationships. We cared for one another. We functioned in every way as a family does. No, we weren't his birth family, and never did we think of ourselves as replacements of his birth parents. He called his birth parents "mom" and "dad" and he also called us moms. The human heart does not have a finite ability to love and experience family. His concept of family included the parents who had given him life biologically and raised him (to the extent they were capable) for his first five years. He has much love for them, and a great sense of pride in many things he remembers about them. He bonded with them, even as they abused him, and they will always be two of the most important people in his life, if not the most important people. It also included us, who had accepted him as our child, and who he was in the process of accepting as "adoptive" parents. Was it "picture perfect." No! No family is picture perfect.

He did crave adoption, and I don't think it was just because foster children are "conditioned" to think of adoption as "the answer." I think having a family, having parents, is a very primal, human need. It is why children, including infants, can attach to-- even through their grief-- any person who becomes their primary caregiver so long as they don't develop an attachment disorder waiting for that person. In our society, for good or bad, there is a legal aspect to being family, and even kids "get this." That legal commitment, that "sealing of the deal of forever" seemed important to our first dfs. I really don't think a legal guardianship would have satisfied. Because it is not equivilant-- in terms of legalities and social aspects-- to other families who happen to be birth families, whereas adoption is. Of course, there is always an emotional difference to being adopted vs. being raised in ones birth family. But legal guardianship creates other differences too.

His extended biological family members, during his ten years of foster care, were not willing to raise him. His paternal grandmother and grandfather at one point stepped forward (he was about 13 I think). Now I have to say here that I do think sometimes even if biological family members are willing, sometimes they carry the underlying patterns that caused the abuse within the family in the first place. So I don't think that biological family placements are always healthy. And I do think that children can have very meaningful ties with biological family without being raised by a bio family member. Parenting a child isn't the only way to have a connection with them. And with his paternal family, I believe that to be the case. That it wasn't a healthy environment. But despite great reservations, the state put in immense efforts to make it work, to try to have biological family member raise him. And ultimately, his grandparents rejected him and denied the placement because of something about who he was. I still wonder why he had to go through with that. Why bio family members are allowed to carry so much weight that they do that to children, when there are other legitimate ways they can be involved.

Anyway, after almost a year of being with us, dfs started to really attach to us. He became very stable. His behavior, which had at times been totally out of control, calmed down immeasurably. He was doing beautifully in school and actually enjoying himself. He was involved in extra curricular activities that he enjoyed, and found a community for himself in our neighborhood and church. Stability is a very frightening thing to a child who has never had it. Our dfs was used to moving from family to family, never calling one his own for too long. He had several years when he moved multiple times during the year (remember, during just ten years in foster care, he moved from family to family twenty-three times).

So one day, he just decided he needed to move. I know in the intimate way that I came to bond with this child, that he was just scared of standing still and being loved by a family for too long. He told the director of the agency that he wanted to move, and the director came to the decision three weeks later that he needed to "have a voice" in the system and that this was the way to give him a voice. Nevermind that he was severely developmentally delayed, with a developmental level ranging from three to eleven, depending on the area of development and his level of stress. On "average" he was maybe 7 or 8 developmentally. This is a big philosophical stand that I take here: I don't think kids are developmentally capable, or should be allowed, to choose their parents at 7 or 8 years old (or an infant or any child). I think there are other developmentally appropriate ways to give kids a voice in the system. Ultimately, this is one major reason we left that agency.

Since that time, we have foster parented many other children on a temporary basis. I've learned how wonderful it can be for a child to live with their bio parents when it can be done safely...when services can be provided over the longterm (which takes a lot of state resources but is worth it in my opinion), and parents are willing and able to engage in those services. And I think those kids do have a right to be parented by their bio parents, if the bio parents are willing to parent in all the meanings of the word. Even when there are imperfections. Even when the child might suffer some limitations as a result. For instance, we parented one child on a very short term basis who loved her mother beyond words and whose mother loved her. Her mother was slightly developmentally delayed and had multiple mental health issues and did some damaging things that wouldn't warrant removal of the child-- such as telling an entire roomfull of parents and students in her child's school class during back-to-school night that her daughter sometimes poops in her pants-- but that would certainly cause ill-effects because of their repitition overtime.

I've learned that when children successfully bond with their parents as babies, which they usually can do in spite of abuse but often don't do when there is neglect, that bond is lifelong. And even if their parents do horrible things to them, the children will love them fiercly because they have made that bond.

I've also learned that in-utero bonding is not the be-all-end-all, and I believe theories about such bonding have validity to some point but after that point become almost mystical, as I've heard people describe it. Because I've parented children who just never bonded with their birth parents at all, in cases of very severe neglect, and the nine months in the womb really didn't change that. In fact, a while back I had been looking at The Primal Wound, which one of you mentioned, and read this in an Amazon review and it has stuck with me since, so I went and hunted it down now: "I, and I imagine many other adoptees, feel that the wounds inflicted by spending my first 9 months in the body of an unwilling host finally began to heal in the loving arms of my adoptive parents. More time with my overburdened biological parents may have damaged me beyond repair." I have seen that. I have seen severe neglect in which the children have never bonded until being placed in a permanent home. I have seen severe neglect that caused an inability to bond. I have seen severe neglect that caused brain damage.

I've learned to have a lot of respect for the grief caused by the loss of a parent, even when it is in the child's and sometimes the parent's best interest to change the child-parent diad into a non-parenting diad.

Now, we currently have a baby in our home who we are fostering and hoping to adopt. His parents can't take care of themselves, due to mental retardation, and he would suffer terrible abuse and neglect in his parents custody. I am thankful they didn't have the opportunity to do any of this to him (other than when his mother, in the time she would visit him just in the NICU just after his birth, when she was confused and held him upside down and didn't support his head and let it flop all around and even rested it on the arm of the rocking chair) and that we got dfs straight from the hospital before he could have suffered from abuse and neglect. His mother did parent dfs's older brother for his first two years, and even though it was in the home of her parents, she was able to cause incredible damage to this dear boy's brain (not to mention his emotional state). I also don't think she ever bonded with dfs. She is offered three two-hour visitations during the week. In his six months of life, she has come to a total of three visits (late I might add). During these visits, she would hold him for a moment and then pass him off and start chit-chatting with others in the room, and she would keep it up for the entire length of the visitation. She doesn't show any signs of attachment to him at all. The only reason she ever gets interested in him is when she is playing mental games with his dad.

His maternal extended family is not able and willing to parent him, and they support our adoption plans. His paternal family seems like they might support our adoption plans. If they were to try to seek custody, I think this *may* be worse for him than adoption, even if they could slip by in a homestudy. They are a violent family, to the extent that the police and courts are involved in their lives. And if they are violent as is, I can't imagine what having a baby in the house, with all the stress that accompanies that, would do. Their family legacy of dysfunction, from what I have heard, spans through generations.

We want to honor any grief that our dfs may experience as the result of his early loss. From our first days with him, we would whisper to him how sorry we were that he wasn't able to be with his "Mommy *******." We talk with him about his bio family, we keep in touch with his bio family members and intend for any adoption (if we are so blessed) be an open one. We want to keep photos of bio family out for him (we need them), even though he is too small to really appreciate them. We plan to be open and honest to him about his family, both bio and adoptive, and his life story. We believe that adoption is a beautiful thing, but that it also will represent a very real loss our dfs experienced early in his life.

I also want to say that no one will be financially profiting from his adoption. If we get to adopt, the state will pay an attorneys fees (actually, we pay it and then get reimbursed). In order to practice law, the attorney must charge for his/her services so that they can make a living, feed and cloth themselves and their families, and afford to practice law. The fee is relatively small, around $1000, which includes many hours of working on putting together the paperwork and attending court. Adoption hasn't simply developed for economic purposes because it exists even in the absence of profit.

I agree with an above poster that all parents have children for selfish reasons. That parents, if they have children, ultimately have them because they want them (even when that desire is a generous desire, such as "to share the love we have"). But I also think that dfs needs parents just as we need to parent. Those are basic human urges (and perhaps needs), that are primal and on a gut level. And we both have a right to have those things. dfs isn't an object that acheives our dreams, though we are grateful for the opportunity to raise a child through adoption. Adoption is a process of mutual fulfillment of human needs.

I realize that my experience is very specifically related to foster care, which may be considered in a different light than private adoption. However, I really relate to the poster earlier who spoke of a connection between a birth family and adoptive family that can happen in a voluntary adoption. Mothers don't always decide that adoption is best because of reasons that could simply be "fixed" if they had enough of this resource or that resource. I certainly think that more support for birth parents is wonderful, and when they can and are willing to parent, that support can offer the birth family the beautiful experience of remaining intact. Sometimes it is about money or having family support or whatever. But sometimes there are other reasons entirely.

One of the people who has influenced me most deeply has been a birth mother. She works at the infertility clinic I have gone to. After our baby dfs was placed into our home, she was so incredibly supportive and happy for us, and we got to talking and she shared with me the story of when she got pregnant as a teen and just felt in her heart of hearts that it wasn't her time to parent. It couldn't be pinned down to any one reason. It just was. She couldn't bring herself to parent. She just didn't have it in her, and neither did the baby's father. And then she met this couple who wanted to adopt, and she was struck immediately by this intense, spiritual, gut-level sense that these were her child's parents. And they connected right away. Not to say that it wasn't hard, to make that decision. But she knew, even through the tears and grief, that adoption was the right decision at that time. Now, many years later, she has given birth to another child and felt that it was her time. Still, she maintains a relationship with her first son, who even spends the night at her house sometimes. She loves her children both dearly, and it was her love for her first child that brought her to that incredibly difficult decision to choose an adoptive family for him.

I guess in summary, I feel that adoption has its time and place. And I feel that adoption isn't really the loss in a lot of cases. In a lot of cases, the loss is the birth parent not being a parent. And that loss can happen whether or not the birth parent retains their rights or even tries to parent when they are not able. But I also think the grief is real and should be honored.
post #91 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by vermonttaylors

I truly wish for humanity's sake that adoption was not necessary. I wish we lived in a world that that gave women more power over their own reproductive choices. I wish we lived in a world that supported poor families in a way that allowed them to care for their unplanned, but not unwanted, children. I wish we lived in a world where racism doesn't exist and where a mother of one race didn't have to fear her family's wrath if she got pregnant by a man of a different race/religion etc. These are things we need to work towards.

I wanted children. I've seen the orphanages. I don't think the children in those orphanages should have to wait while the powers that be decide on the global politics and economics that determine their lives. They will be waiting forever because the world is currently being run by war mongers and people of such staggeringly greedy natures that it beggars belief. I think it is better to be raised by a family than in an institution.
Thank you. I think about this all the time, and you expressed it beautifully. I hope that one day, women in Guatemala will have more education, more control over their fertility, more equality to men, more economic opportunity, and tthat there will be less discrimination against children with Mayan heritage. I hope that in some small way, now that my family is forever connected with this country, we can be a part of helping Guatemalans improve their lives and can find ways to give back to this beautiful country and people.
post #92 of 152
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sitara
Of course people want a mommy, but that doesn't mean that anyone should be allowed to just pay money, and call themselves a mommy. These people have a mother.

This part really disturbed me to be honest. Everything until this point was kept fairly respectable. Yes, I can understand that adoption isn't perfect and that you may have had a bad experience, but this is just cruel to us adoptive mothers. As the OP if you are going to express your opinion keep it respectful.
post #93 of 152
I agree with Starr. The aforementioned quote is very disrespectful on a number of levels. However, I am looking at it as a difference of opinion and not an attempt to be hurtful.

The idea that "just anybody" can pay money to become a mother definately hits a nerve, but remember that there are women who are carelessly and thoughtlessly becoming birthmothers too. Anybody (who doesn't face infertility) can become a mother but that doesn't make them a parent. There are people out there deliberately and willfully harming their children, the ones they gave birth too. Those kids would be better off with adoptive parents who love them and respect them simply because they exist. (Again, my opinion )

Also, I couldn't disagree more with the idea that people only have one mother. I was raised by 2 women in a loving and comitted relationship. They are both my mothers. Are you suggesting that the woman who didn't actually give birth to me loves me less or has less of a right to parent me? (I don't think that is what you are saying, by the way). There is a reason that there are different adjectives used to describe the different mothers in adoption "birth mother" and "adoptive mother" and that is because people can absolutelty have more than one mother!

I am so used to the public thinking that we are not a "real" family because I have 2 moms (and a much beloved dad too ) that I didn't even flinch when I read the quote about there only being one mother. But upon closer inspection, I do have to say that I strongly, and respectfully, disagree with that sentiment. I am Kai and Grace's mom. They also have birthmoms and dads who were unable to parent them. We honor them and think of them daily and try to live our lives in a way that brings more equality to the world, not less.

Oh and by the way, EVERYBODY pays for babies. The actual cost of giving birth in a hospital is between $10K and $20K, and that's if nothing goes wrong. Of course, insurance covers most of it. (Of course I can't remember where I read that statistic)


I agree that we need to keep this important thread respectful and remember that we are treading on some delicate nerves here. It is OK to disagree, but let's not be cruel.

Cheers!
post #94 of 152
Sierra, as usual you have expressed things so thoughtfully and eloquently! Thanks for sharing your feelings!
post #95 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by vermonttaylors
Also, I couldn't disagree more with the idea that people only have one mother. I was raised by 2 women in a loving and comitted relationship. They are both my mothers. Are you suggesting that the woman who didn't actually give birth to me loves me less or has less of a right to parent me? (I don't think that is what you are saying, by the way). There is a reason that there are different adjectives used to describe the different mothers in adoption "birth mother" and "adoptive mother" and that is because people can absolutelty have more than one mother!
Cheers!
Thank you! That one went by me too the first time, and here I am with a daughter that has FOUR mothers! (Her birth mother, her foster mother, and two adoptive mothers.)
post #96 of 152
I think for the most part this has been a very respectful and thoughtful thread. Many sensitive issues have been discussed...some of them seen as 'taboo' and undiscussable in many places.

I think many sides of the issue have been touched upon and explored. I am hoping the thread will be able to remain because it has valuable information for members with a variety of opinions about adoption.

Sitara has already indicated that she is finished discussing the topic for now, and therefore I don't think will be back to answer challenges to her stance.

Let's keep the thread civil, or let it gently rest as a resource for the future. Sound o.k.?
post #97 of 152
I agree Lauren. Sorry if I sounded disrespectful, I didn't mean to. I wish Sitara a joyful, peaceful and wonderful birth. Please let us know how it goes!

Thanks to all who have expressed their opinions and thanks for not throwing flames at those with whom you disagree.

This is a great thread!
post #98 of 152
I agree this is a wonderful thread. One perspective that we have NOT heard (please point out if I missed it, but I'm pretty sure I didn't) is that of the birthmother. I know there are several birthmothers who post here, and I can't help but to think it must hurt them at least as much as it hurts adoptive mothers to hear criticisms of adoption, especially from those who were adopted.

Personally I think that adoption IS sometimes the right choice for a child. The system has flaws, certainly, but there are children who DON'T have birthmothers who can or will care for them (or at all, if the parents have died) who want and need moms. Not guardians, but moms.

My daughter will be too young to make those decisions for herself, but it is certain that she will either be adopted or spend the rest of her life in an orphanage. Possibly foster care, if she is lucky, but most likely an orphanage at least part of the time. Her family will have already abandoned her -- were they pressured to do so? Certainly, by the laws and cultural requirements of their country, possibly by extended family, possibly by poverty. Probably NOT by people wanting her to make money off of from adoption, based on the hundreds of thousands of children in the orphanages who are never adopted. Just maybe they'd heard of adoption, and hoped someone would adopt her. Probably they'd heard of orphanages, and hoped she'd be found and taken care of. Maybe they'll leave her where she'll certainly be found. Maybe they'll leave her in an out-of-the-way place where she'll only be found through a combination of good luck and chance - uncounted numbers of babies are left to die, we only know they exist because a few are found.

My daughter is (or will be) in China, and I can't let her languish there waiting for the laws to change, for millennia of cultural conditioning to change, for society to be more supportive so that all women can keep their babies. She will not have a mom without being adopted. She will most likely never meet her bio family (I have only heard of two cases EVER where this has happened).

It would be wonderful if adoption was not needed, but since the beginning of recorded history there have been children who were left to die and those who were adopted by others. It is even seen among animals! There are no legal ramifications there of course, I'm just saying that I really don't think we are ever going to totally abolish the concept of adoption. There will always be children who need families.
post #99 of 152
Perhaps this is a dumb question, but I think I've missed something during this discussion in the distinction between a 'guardian' and an adoptive parent. What, precicely, is the difference? Is it a matter of semantics and moving away from using the word 'mother' to apply to parents through adoption, or are people who prefer that scheme actually advocating creating a different kind of legal relationship -- and if so, what are the differences?
post #100 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belleweather
Perhaps this is a dumb question, but I think I've missed something during this discussion in the distinction between a 'guardian' and an adoptive parent. What, precicely, is the difference? Is it a matter of semantics and moving away from using the word 'mother' to apply to parents through adoption, or are people who prefer that scheme actually advocating creating a different kind of legal relationship -- and if so, what are the differences?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_guardian

Quote:
A legal guardian is a person who has the legal authority (and the corresponding duty) to care for the personal and property interests of another person, called a ward. Usually, a person has the status of guardian because the ward is incapable of caring for his or her own interests due to infancy, incapacity, or disability. Most countries and states have laws that provide that the parents of a minor child are the legal guardians of that child, and that the parents can designate who shall become the child's legal guardian in the event of their death.
I am advocating creating a different kind of legal relationship to care for children who cannot be cared for by their birth parents. I advocate for a switch from adoption to permanant guardianships. The key differences for me are that the birthparents do not have their legal relationship with their child terminated, the records are not sealed, and the child's name is not changed.