Feeling like I'm no longer a good parent :(

[mightymoo]

I'm so frustrated lately, with my kids, but mostly with myself. Up until about last January or so, I felt like a pretty good parent, my daughter and I had a close relationship, we didn't use punishment I didn't yell, etc. Now I feel like an ogre - all I ever do is threaten or yell or send her to her room and she spends most of her time whining, arguing or throwing huge fits. I'm beginning to wonder if I was really a good parent or if it was just because she was such an easy baby.

A year ago I would have told you GD was great, the way to go, now I can't even explain to myself what GD is. I feel like my choices are either let her have her way all the time, or threaten and punish her and deal with her huge screaming fits. The punishments "work" in the sense that I can prevent her from doing things she shouldn't by constantly punishing her or threatening punishment, but I hate what our relationship has become as a result. She also tends to go into these huge tantrums as a result, where she is honestly out of control - won't let me touch her, hits and bites herself, destroys things and even if I try to give her what she asks for, then refuses it.

Here is a scenario: yesterday, I was folding laundry - the laundry had been clean for weeks and I was finally getting to it. I have piles of folded things all over the place. All morning, I had been putting up with DD grabbing piles and unfolding them. She then wont' give them back because she insists they are hers. I'm folding some blankets and she grabs the bottom blanket from teh pile and just yanks it out screaming "It's my blankie" (this is not a treasured possession by any means) causing everything fall over and spill my soda. This is the straw for me, I can't take anymore. I take away the blanket and I tell her she should not grab the laundry, that if she wants something, she should ask politely and I will get it for her. Holding the blanket she wants I say "Can you ask politely please" - she snaps and starts her fits where she screams generally "I NEED THE BLANKET" and throws herself around. I remind her many times that all she needs to do is ask for the blanket calmly and politely. This just results in more screaming thrashing. I offer hugs which results in a lovely game of 'NO HUG' 'I need a hug' - then 'NO HUG' and thrashing as soon as I try to give her one. Finally I decide to leave her to her fit and continue putting the clothes away. Part of that is putting the blanket she refuses to ask for politely away. She continues this fit each time I pick up an item (I needed to clean the house up for a showing, so some of her toys were being put away) she then wants that item and demands it at the top of her lungs, to which I reply that I will give it to her if she asks politely, but she continues to scream so I just put it away. I think eventaully she attacked me and scratched and hit my arm, which we have deemed unacceptable and so I put her in her room and leave her there where the fit continues. (We decided to punish her for hitting because nothing else seemed to have an effect on her hitting her baby brother) Eventually she calms down and I hear that she has stopped screaming, I go in and ask her if she is calm enough to come out and she says 'Yes' and I ask her if she wants a hug and she says yes and I give her a hug and then we are on about our merry way. This whole debacle lasted over an hour.

After things like this I just feel awful. I honestly cannot figure out a better way to handle it - I have a hard time with my own temper and I do tend to yell when I'm angry. (I am always careful to keep the belittling snide remarks my mother used to use out of it) I can see in her the frustration that I have felt in the past and I see so much of myself in her. (DH is a quiet person) I don't want to turn into my mother, but I also can't ignore her behavior. Honestly it seems like most of the time I can't even get her to listen to me without threatening some sort of punishment. She just does what she wants. When she does hear what I say she usually responds with 'No! We are not <whatever I asked her to do>'. My biggest frustration with her is her constantly waking the baby up. It's hard enough to get him to sleep while dealing with her, she then starts screaming and he's awake again. ARG

Anyway, I know this post is horribly long, but I'm just so lost and frustrated. Thanks for reading if you go this far. I'd appreciate any advice I can get.

[johub]

I cannot see where anything you did was anything but good.
Your daughter is behaving in a very difficult way. You are attempting to communicate and to empathize and you remove her from the situation when she becomes violent.
The only thing I would do differently is remove her earlier. I dont think a child staying in their room until they can calm down is a punishment because the child controls when they come out. So when she starts throwing herself on the floor screaming. I would politely say "I can see you are very upset. You can cry and scream as much as you feel you need to on your bed. You can come out whenever you are ready."
Certainly offer the hug. Offer the language she needs to get what she wants. And if that works great. Your job is done. But if she just needs to throw herself around and scream a bit, and it is making you tense and angry (and less likely to respond kindly as time goes on), I would remove her without hesitation.
In acting earlier rather than later you reduce the elevated blood pressure and increasing anger you are feeling as a result of putting up with this behavior for an hour or more.
You are NOT a bad mom for feeling angry when your child is acting out of control. You are a mom of a toddler.

Joline

[TripMom]

OMG -- this sounds like me and my ds 3 years old. He does the same kinda stuff - I use the GD techniques - and he doesn't respond the way he is suppose to per GD theory? I try the "hugging" thing too -- and he does the same thing - "I don't want a hug" "I want a hug", etc. I feel like a total GD failure in these circs.

That being said - I think your handling of the situation is totally GD -- your frustration sounds like the same one I have -- GD in this circ doesn't seem to correct the childs behavior in the moment - or prevent further similar behaviours. I always leave these situations feeling like the child has not learned anything and will do this again. :

When this happens to me and I am tired from the babies being up all night or something -- the result is "yelling" -- which completely destroys me (see thread from yesterday).

Would love to hear how to handle this cir more effectively -- cuz it aint' workin for me either!

[Annikate]

mightymoo, I'm not glad you're going through this but I am glad to see that it's not just us! My dd will be 2 on the 29th and I have an *almost* 6 mo. old. I will say that for me, the sleep deprivation plays a big part in how patient or impatient I am with dd's fits. And when she wakes up her baby sister I get sooo frustrated! Of course, dd2 has just stopped napping altogether.

Oh how she can throw that little body around! We are tantruming lately over "boobie". I still nurse her and she's going through this thing lately where she totally loses it if she has to wait TWO seconds! YOu know though, I guess if it weren't tantruming over one thing, it'd be another.

My dd *will not* let me come near her when she's in the thick of it either. I've found that once she's quiet enough to hear me I'll say something like, "I know you're angry. Making you wait really makes you angry at mommy," and then you know what she'll do? She'll literally THROW herself at me and hug me tight. It surprised and shocked me the first time she did it. It was almost like she was soooo happy that I acknowledged her feelings. After she does this she'll calm down while I hold her.

I know it's difficult to sit through, *especially* when you have another little one sitting by needing your attention!

I think how you are handling it is the only way to deal with it personally. I know what you mean about the threatening though. I am soo trying to stop doing that. I hate myself when I do it. Somebody here gave some good advice about that and said to say something like, "I love you too much to let you . . . . [fill in the blank]. I'm trying that and it seems to be working.

to you. I know what you're going through 'cause I'm right there with ya!

Oh, wanted to say too that dd is getting canines. I think this is playing a major role in the fit factor! Guess your dd has them already though eh?

[Altair]

I first want to say that I'm saying this from a compassionate place-- I'm don't want you to think my post is insulting you, ok? You're def not alone in what you're going though.

If you re-read your post, you're modeling angry behavior for her, and she's simply repeating it. She has just of a hard time handling her emotions as you do. MOST of us stop being rational when we're angry. It's not a good idea to expect a small child to have more self control than most adults, kwim?

(please know I'm still not attacking! )

One example sttod out to me-- when she took the blanket, you grabbed it back. You didn't "politely" ask her for it. (Maybe you did and didn't mention it, but the end result was you got it) She honestly probably has no idea why this laundry thing is so important. She knows she wants something, her emotional memory is short (she's not able to think back "Oh yes, last time mommy did the laundry she said not to touch it. so even thought i REALLY want that blanket i'll be a good girl") She's impulsive, that's developmentally normal. She wants what she wants.

Tantrums lead to more tantrums. Tantrums feel yucky, feeling yucky makes you tantrum more. There's a crucial building phase right before the explosion that can be identified and stopped.


A response that models how you want her to behave doesn't have to involve punishing or taking. IS there a real reason why she can't hold that blanket? Or just b/c it was on the bottom and made them fall?

She had an aciddent-- she doesn't understand why she's being punished when she didn't see a clear rule. Calming, seriously explaining the problem, while showing her how to "fix it" can prevent melt downs and teach what should be done instead.

"Oh no! Mommy's not happy that all the blankets fell down. Next time you can ask me to get it for you. I want you to help me re-fold the pile now."

Do you meditate? I find I really have to re-connect to my meditations while i'm in the middle of a really stressed out kid situation. B/c anyone's first intinct is to take and punish, b/c you TOLD her not to, she didn't listen, etc. But taking it back and punishing doesn't teach her anything, it just makes her feel worse.

BUT we can fight past our first instincts. I consciously lower my blood pressure in the middle of it. Wait a few seconds before responding, so I can think it through. Have you tried anything like that before?

[crazymom03]

I can feel your pain. I have a hard time dealing with my ds in trying times. I think you should parent from your heart meaning do what feels comfortable to you- it may take time to find the your best route. I know what it is like to yell when you don't want to and then feel guilty about it. I did that with my ds so many times especially after our baby was born. Our relationship suffered; I felt bad, he was acting worse then I ever saw. So finally I made up my mind not to yell, I decided yelling was my problem- my lack of ability to handle the situation. I was yelled at as a child and I don't want to treat my ds like that and make him feel belittled- like I was made to feel when I was young.
Also, keep in mind things are always changing- having a new baby is a huge ajustment esp. for the little ones. My son is just coming around and our baby is five months old! So hang in there and try to focus on the positive. Our children our so precious and them being little only lasts a heartbeat in the big picture! All the best to you.

Mama to Richie (3) and Rowan (5m.)

[allgirls]

yes...I have a dd almost the same age...and the behaviour is almost identical

I agree with Altair...when things escalate it's more about me expecting her to understand something she's not capable of understanding and me getting upset about that than about what she actually did to start with.

Was the toppling of the blankets worth getting upset over? Frustrating absolutely...my patience wears thin from things like that...but I try to say things like..."mommy's feeling frustrated, I know you don't understand but I need blankets nice" If she is really into messing with my work...I leave it unless I have the patience to make a game out of it.

But it's very difficult

[RedWine]

Originally Posted by allgirls

I agree with Altair...when things escalate it's more about me expecting her to understand something she's not capable of understanding and me getting upset about that than about what she actually did to start with.....But it's very difficult

Yeah, that -- all of the above. I find that when I get really upset, I'm usually expecting something that's not developmentally appropriate.

But it IS very hard, EXTREMELY hard -- and you sound like a great mama who is trying to figure out the best way to deal with these difficult situations.

[TortelliniMama]

Also, am I right in thinking from your saying that you were cleaning the house up "for a showing" that you're getting ready to sell and move? That's *tons* of stress for everyone in the house, whether they're old enough to understand what's going on or not. So it's not surprising that with that, on top of her being 2 1/2, on top of having a newish sibling, on top of *you* having to deal with 2-year-old stuff, on top of you having a newish baby, that the two of you wouldn't be at your best. It's unfortunate that so many things are going on at once, but understandable that you (and she) aren't reacting in a way that you'd feel more positive about.

My personal feeling would be that isolating her for hitting isn't ideal, especially if it's often wrapped up in interactions with the baby, because it seems likely that she's hitting in part because she's feeling unsure of whether there's enough Mommy and Daddy left for her now that there's a new baby. Sending her away could give her the feeling of "Now that the baby's here, they don't have time to deal with my strong emotions anymore."

That being said, I don't have any sort of BTDT advice, since I just have one child so far, and I can certainly understand the need to keep everyone safe. So, even though I agree with your feelings that there should be a better way of dealing with these situations, I want to say that I think you should feel proud of yourself for trying so hard and working to improve on the Mommy model that you had as a child.

There are some days, even with just one child, where the best I can offer myself is this: "My parents modeled one kind of parenting for me. I'm improving on that and providing a better model for ds. Even though I'm not perfect and today was pretty bad, at least I'm giving him a better model to work off of when he has his own kids." IOW, I might not always be the parent I want to be, but at least I'm making it more likely that my grandchildren will have that parent.

[mightymoo]

Thanks everyone, hearing that others are going through similar situations and reactions makes me feel less isolated. Having others point out that some of my behavior is GD really helps me remember that I haven't gone horribly wrong, just have a few things I need to work on.

Altair - I totally understand where you are coming from, don't worry you didn't insult me. I definitely do model angry behavior more often than I would wish. I would say most of the time I model good behavior (ask her politely for things, etc rather than grabbing) but on this occaision I think I did grab the blanket back. The problem I have is that in situations where she wants the item and I want it back, politely requesting it just results in 'NO!' and she runs the other direction. In this situation, it did not matter much if she had the blanket, I was fed up because this was the 30th laundry item she had declared 'mine' and unfolded and it also spilled the soda.

I am definitely first and foremost upset with myself and my reactions. I don't really think her behavior is 'out of line'. I'm just having a hard time reaching into that well of patience and not reacting in anger. I feel that I've become disconnected with my parenting ideals. Someone said I should vocalize that I'm frustrated - I do that a lot actually - to the point that DD sometimes says 'No Mommy! I'm very frustrated with you!' It definitely gives me perspective, because she so clearly is mirroring me.

I have a very verbal girl - one who can remember and use words like frustrated with the appropriate context - it is hard to remember that she is still very much a baby and doesn't understand these situations. When I'm calm one thing I have found enlightening is have her reflect what she heard back to me. I will say something simple "Be gentle to the kitty" and then I'll say 'Can you please tell me what I said?' and she will so often repeat back something completely different - maybe from an earlier encounter "Don't go outside!" - making me realize how much of what I say she doesn't take in at all. I think that is what is so frustrating about this age - the fact that they seem to understand so much and yet don't really understand it.

[MsMoMpls]

Originally Posted by TripMom

GD in this circ doesn't seem to correct the childs behavior in the moment - or prevent further similar behaviours. I always leave these situations feeling like the child has not learned anything and will do this again. :

I promise you that if you were using harsh, violent parenting, you would feel the same way but so much worse. This is why discipline is so tough. I feel for all of us, trying to grow our children.

Try and think about it as growing them. You aren't teaching them, that can only happen when they are ready for new skills. Controlling our behaviors is something that is a life long challenge. Hey- I spend too much, eat junk food and struggle with housework. And I know what I am supposed to do. I know and still don't do.

I have often said that if I had a crystal ball, I would introduce mommas to their adult children. They grow up and hardly ever throw things on the floor, hardly ever have temper tantrums, don't hit and likely struggle with spending, eating and cleaning just like we do.

Gentle Discipline begins with how you talk to yourself. When you can be patient and understanding of your own humanity, it will go a long way towards being the kind of parent you envision yourself being.

Go gently mommas. They are doing their best to teach us all we need to know.

[mightymoo]

Originally Posted by TortelliniMama

My personal feeling would be that isolating her for hitting isn't ideal, especially if it's often wrapped up in interactions with the baby, because it seems likely that she's hitting in part because she's feeling unsure of whether there's enough Mommy and Daddy left for her now that there's a new baby. Sending her away could give her the feeling of "Now that the baby's here, they don't have time to deal with my strong emotions anymore."

Yeah, I really don't like doing it. Also sending her to her room adds negative connotations to the place she goes to sleep at night and I'm sure that isn't making bedtime any easier. The problem was that she would come right up and be super lovey to the baby then in the blink of an eye turn around and smack him and I needed that to stop for his sake. I couldn't physically prevent it unless I never let her touch the baby and that wouldn't have helped their relationship. I think she is in a much better place jealousy wise now and I might see her hit him once a week now and he doesn't even care (before it was like every hour - and he would be wailing), so we might be able to back off now and try a more GD approach to that problem

[gaialice]

Hi Mightymoo! I am glad you posted again. I missed your comments and your perspective here at the GD forum. I hope you will come back more often now. What a change it is from one to two kids, isn't it? For me it was really a qualitative, not a quantitative change.
I totallly do understand you. In fact I used to be in your situation, my 2 dds are 21 months apart, and the first few months of dd2's life marked the all-time-low of my parenting dd1. We used to have a blissful relationship but ... she turned two and had a baby sister. She was ... oh well... not her best.... I resorted to yelling & time outs for hitting the baby, in my case though, it did not work, in fact made the hitting worse. In our case the fact that my dh is NOT a calm person did not help either.
Dd1 and I became sort of disconnected at that time and I have been trying ever since to reach out to her. Some weeks it is better and others worse. This one in particular is worse... And you are right, the problem is ME!
Things you can try with dd:
- do not attempt any positive or negative comment or request without first connecting with her (getting down to her eye level and make eye contact)
- ask her to problem solve with you
- play games about emotions - especially strong emotions (role play, or draw angry - happy faces, buy books on these emotions... )
Hang on and by all means try to rest. It is real hard to have two closely spaced little ones ....

[island mama]

Oh my goodness, mightymoo, I am so glad to see this post. I logged on after having yet another day with my 2-1/2 yo daughter screaming whenever things don't go her way, kicking, hitting, and spending a good part of her day in time-outs. We punish her by taking away toys and putting her in her room, but of course it doesn't work (or only for the length of time of the punishment), and yet what is an *effective* alternative? I emphasize effective, because what works for most kids (I should mention that we have two others, 5 and 8, who are really pretty mellow and don't have these issues) doesn't seem to do it for Sophie. She is VERY intense, independent, gregarious and fearless, lots of fun when she's in a good mood, but watch out when she's not. She can bring the rafters down with her tantrums. I've already had to go around to the neighbors, explaining that we really aren't torturing her with thumbscrews; she's just having yet another tantrum. I can explain the rules, reason with her, be consistent about consequences, and yet we've made nary a dent in her behavior. So many conflicts--I really don't want her to be motivated by fear, and yet what do you do when it isn't enough to praise the good behavior? I also know that she simply doesn't yet have the self-control or understanding to correct her behavior once she's in a negative mode, yet must we allow her to destroy the peace on a regular basis? What is the balance between saying no--and enforcing no--and meeting a child where she/he is? Lately I've been noticing that I've begun to treat her gingerly, trying to avoid yet another tantrum, and I don't want to feel that way about her--that's allowing her to control the situation. Lastly, I think this kind of situation is also different in a family with more than one child--I might be able to solve this if I had just Sophie to think about, but there's just so much time in the day to devote to one child without the others losing out. I'm pretty worn out by this all and totally up against a wall in terms of what to do to change the dynamic. Just knowing that others have been through the same thing helps.