2nd baby on the way - need advice for vaxing

[kchoffmann]

I need other mama's smart and well-researched opinions. I'm just too confused by all the varying information out there.

I vaxed my first selectively and just a month behind the typical schedule. But by 18 mo I stopped entirely because he's very speech delayed (I don't think his vaxing is related, actually, but just in case...)

For this next baby, I want to do things differently. I want to vax - if at all - only for those diseases that are truly life-threatening and are a real possibility in this day and age. I also want you to tell me when I should do any of them, e.g., not until after he's 12 mo.

Thanks for your help with this!

[DevaMajka]

Ok, most of the ladies here will tell you not to vax at all. So listen to what they have to say too.
Personally, I'd like to say I wouldn't vax #2 (ds was vaxed on schedule until 12 mos, when I wised up- and I won't be getting him anymore- at least not for a long time). But when it comes down to it, some of the diseases honestly do scare me.
The ones I wouldn't do are Hep B, CP because they are unnecessary and the chance of your dc getting the disease (in the case of hep b) or having complications (in the case of cp) is lower than the chance of a moderate or severe reaction to the vax. I wouldn't do Polio unless polio came back to the US- then I might consider it.

MMR- I'd probably get measles at 2 years or later (not mmr, just measles). I know this is probably uncommon to hear here, but the risks of measles kinda scare me. Maybe someone here can tell me (and you) why it shouldn't. It has become quite uncommon in the US though. Then if dc hadn't gotten mumps or rubella, I'd get them later (maybe 11 or so?) Mumps is almost always a mild disease in those under 14 or so. and rubella is only dangerous to pg women.

HIB- as long as dc would be breastfed and not in daycare, I don't know if I'd do it. But if I were to do it (because hib does kinda scare me too), it wouldn't be until 15 mos (if they get it at 15 mos, they only need 1 dose, as compared to 4 doses if they get it on schedule). But then again, the risk of getting HIB goes down greatly with age, with it being relatively uncommon after 2 yrs old. DS has had 3 doses, and I'm stopping there.

DTaP- I don't know about this one. But if I DID decide that it was worth it, I'd definitely wait to start until after 1 yo (probably 2). And I'd get 3 doses instead of the recommended 4 (they recommend 5, but the 5th is a booster at 4-6yrs). In cdc effectiveness studies, they consider those with 3 doses to be vaccinated- and you know they want it to show as effective as possible! And the reactions after the 4th and 5th doses are more likely to be worse than the first 3. Like I said, that's IF I decided it was worth it. DS has had 3 doses, and I'm stopping there.

Prevnar- not really sure, because I haven't researched it much, because he's had all the recommended doses. But I know for sure that I would NOT have done it on schedule at all. Next time I'll at least wait until dc is over 1 yr then who knows.

My mind may change by then, but if it changes it will be towards getting fewer, or no, vaxes. I'm not quite there yet, but I'm very open to the possibility.

I gg- ds needs me

eta- I was wrong about the risks of measles.

[zinemama]

"What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Childhood Vaccinations" by Dr. Stephanie Cave has very readable descriptions of all the diseases, their seriousness and the risks of the vaccines. Even though she does advocate vaccinating - just on a delayed schedule - I found the main portion of the book to be very informative and it helped me to decide which vaxes to give my second ds. (My first was fully vaxed). In the end the only one that seemed important to me was Hib which he had at 1 year (only 1 dose required as pp mentioned), and I have yet to decide when/if he'll be getting any more.

[Tracy]

For me, I think the first place to begin is with hard numbersJust how many cases of all these vax-diseases do we get here in the united states? (by the way, if you are out of the us I recommend you search your country’s online stats)

This is one of the hardest to find pages at the cdc… the way that I actually found this page was by accident. I had called the CDC to find out about hib cases and I got a doctor and he sent me to this page…

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_wk.html

if you download the current issue it gives you the most uptodate stat that the cdc has on the reportable diseases by the way, the stats are at the end of the document. Anyway, I would start there first.


But just to give you an idea:
Here are the hard numbers for 2003. This is what I found for the last week of the year..... this is the total amount of cases reported to the CDC for 2003.....

Total reported cases to the cdc:

Disease Cases

Diptheria 1
Measles 41
Mumps 186
Rubella 7
Congenital rubella 0
Tetanus 14
Hib (under 5)
Sero b-20
Non sero b-80
Unknown b-178


Out of a population of 280 million people in the united states!!

If you check it now, you will see the number of cases for the year as of now (well to be specific as of last Friday..they update the list on Fridays or weekends-from what I can tell).

Remember it is a cumulative list... it is not that many cases per week. It's the year to date.

I will say that critics of the CDC will say that the numbers don't reflect all the cases since sometimes the cases are so mild they don't even get reported or people don't even go to the doctors because the symptoms are so manageable.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ad.php?t=57794

[alegna]

After I looked at all the numbers it made no sense to vax my child.

-Angela

[LongIsland]

Originally Posted by Tracy

Out of a population of 280 million people in the united states!!

Tracy - I've been meaning to tell you b/c I came across it a few months ago. I read 290 million, but I just double checked the current number and now the U.S. population is over 295,700,000!!!!!!!!!!

[Sherra]

Kerry,

I vaxed my first selectively and just a month behind the typical schedule. But by 18 mo I stopped entirely because he's very speech delayed (I don't think his vaxing is related, actually, but just in case...)

While you may think it wasn't vaxing related, it could be. One thing you need to probably know is that health related problems from vaxes can run in families. My brother developed a tic after his shots, my dad's arm was paralyzed for a year after his tetanus shot- he needed therapy to get it working again, and my daughter had a seizure after her 2 month shots and we ended up researching vaccines and stopping.

For this next baby, I want to do things differently. I want to vax - if at all - only for those diseases that are truly life-threatening and are a real possibility in this day and age. I also want you to tell me when I should do any of them, e.g., not until after he's 12 mo.

One thing to consider is that some of the vaccinations are life threatning of themselves. If I wasn't there for my daughter after her shots, it's quite possible she may have been a sids case...it happened at 3:30am and we co sleep is the ONLY reason I knew about her seizure. It was really scary.

The first book I read and found it informative about every disease was The Vaccine Guide by Randall N. Can be found on this websites excerpts to read: www.cure-guide.com

Another great book is How to have a healthy child in spite of your doctor by Robert Mendelsohn.

Both books really turned on the light for me.


This is one area that I wish I had taken time to research before I vaccinated my daughter. I researched so many other things so thoroughly and I didn't do much in the vaccination area. I know the head spins but it took about 2 months and the clouds cleared up. Yours will clear up too.


Good luck.


Sherra

[DevaMajka]

I'm an idiot

I had read something yesterday that I *thought* said that the risk of serious complications from measles was 30%. (duh, I should have known better, right?) But I'm pretty sure what it said was that the risk of serious complications from *encephalitis* is 30%- the risk of encephalitis occuring in measles is 1 in 1,000.
So, I was wrong- measles isn't a scary disease to me. Sorry.
I'm such a dumb@$$. I let their obscure wording confuse me- and I know better! Imagine how scary all these diseases look to people who just blindly believe what they read?

[alegna]

They WANT to confuse you. If you look carefully the CDC admits now that your chance is higher of serious vaccine reaction than a problem with diseases vaxed for....
but of course they still say you should vax.

-Angela

[Tracy]

thanks, LongIsland.. I have to edit the cheat sheet..for the updated population!
thanks
tracy

[melissa_honeybee]

My second is on the way and I am also having doubts about immunizing. My DS was fully immunized, some delayed and the doctor used thimerosol-free shots. With my second, I'm not sure. I probably will, but some vac's seem so unnecessary(like CP!! what's wrong with just getting it??) I ended up gettting it for DS since I figured he probably won't get is a a child since most kids are vaxed for it.

I definitely want to read up on it more.

[zinemama]

Melissa, my first (almost fully vaxed) ds did not get the chicken pox vaccine because both his doctor and I thought there was no need. He caught it on his own at age 3 (as did the six other unvaxed kids at his preschool...). Don't worry - chicken pox is still around to be caught!

[LoveChild421]

I found "Vaccinations: A Thoughtful Parents Guide" by Aviva Jill Romm to be very clear and helpful when I was doing vax research- she goes into detail about each disease and the complications that can arise from them, how common they are, etc. and then goes into detail about each vaccine- the risks, how likely reactions are for each shot, etc.

this is a great website http://www.909shot.com you can research each disease and vaccine to decide one by one which ones you feel comfortable with at what age, etc.

After I was done with the process I went from thinking I would delay/selectively vax to deciding that not vaccinating at all was what I felt most comfortable with.

[mrsfatty]

I recommend starting with this article:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller15.html

And...don't do anything until you're comfortable with your FIRM decision...you can vaccinate later...but it's pretty hard to "unvaccinate."

[kchoffmann]

Everybody, thank you! I knew you would give me the thoughts, links, recommendations, and research I would need. I am going to buy one of those books and look at the web sites. I AM leaning toward no vaxing for this next baby. But I like hearing the last thing said - not to do anything until I feel completely confident because I can always do vaxing later.

I want to say, the reason I don't think my DS's speech delay is related to vaxing is because he never had any serious reactions to them. I am not aware of anyone in my family or DH's family having reactions either. But then again, I could be naive about this. Maybe this should be another thread, but does anyone want to convince me otherwise?

[Zuri's Papa]

Kerry, give yourself at least 6 months to do some research...and order another book if you can. I remember our doctor was presurring us to vax and I was trying to finish Stehpanie's book, then I was like, 'wait a second, this is our child...I don't have to rush for anyone!'

[Sherra]

I want to say, the reason I don't think my DS's speech delay is related to vaxing is because he never had any serious reactions to them. I am not aware of anyone in my family or DH's family having reactions either.

The child doesn't have to have a reaction to a shot to end up with speech delay later. I can't tell you how many parents I met up with that have had this happen to their child.

But then again, I could be naive about this. Maybe this should be another thread, but does anyone want to convince me otherwise?

I don't think of my job here (I look at it as a duty job to inform people of my experience with vaccines because I wish people would have done this for me) is to convince you. My posts are just really meant to show you another way to think of it and to spark you to ask questions and read on in order to make a decision. You need to do some reading and decide if it's smart to continue given that your other child is speech delayed. It DOES run in families and is it a chance you want to take. No convincing to do from my side anyway..it's your call and your children.


Sherra

[DevaMajka]

Originally Posted by Sherra

I look at it as a duty job to inform people of my experience with vaccines because I wish people would have done this for me

I feel the same way. DS didn't have a serious reaction like your dd (I'm really sorry to hear that if I haven't already said that, btw. It does affect my decision- at least a little bit.) but I hate the fact that I gave him some completely stupid and useless vaccines "because that's what you're supposed to do". I wish someone had mentioned this stuff to me. This and circ'ing- I'm still beating myself over the head for that one....
So, all I can do now is try to educate people, so they won't make the same mistakes and regret it. Well, that and educate myself and not make anymore stupid mistakes lol.