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Greed.....

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
I just mentioned in another thread that I'm a big believer that money is one of, if not the main motivating factor in the perpetuation of circumcisions by the US medical community. In order to further expand on this point, I'd like to post the form given to DH and me right after the 5 month ultrasound that revealed that we were having a boy (this was about 5 months ago, and I was too hormonal to post about it at the time).

The ultrasound was considered elective and therefore wasn't covered by insurance, so after the ultrasound we went to the front to pay. The woman at the front asked "So what is it ?" .... "It's a boy!" we happily said. "Oh, well, let me give you this then"......and this is what we received....this and ONLY this.......no educational material, nothing:


FINANCIAL POLICY REGARDING CIRCUMCISIONS

Congratulations, you are having a baby boy! We at Yada Yada Yada Obstetrics and Gynecology would like you to know that if you choose to have your son circumcised, our physicians can do this in the hospital, typically 24-48 hours after delivery.

We will be happy to file this service to your insurance company as a courtesy to you. Our office fee for the circumcision is $325.00. We require that $175 of this be pre-paid by the beginning of your 8th month, as many insurance companies only pay a portion of this fee. We will gladly reimburse you for any overpayment you made in the event we recieve payment from your insurance (gee, aren't they helpful????).

If you have Medicaid, we also require you to pre-pay $175.00 at the beginning of your 8th month. The Medicaid office has informed us that as of July 1, 2003, they will no longer reimburse for circumcisions.

(On the letter, this next portion is italicized for special emphasis) If you decline to know the gender of your baby, we still require the $175.00 to be pre-paid in the event that you do have a boy and wish to have him circumcised. If you do not have a boy, then your money will be refunded to you. We need your signature on this form regardless, if gender is known or not.

If the circumcision is not pre-paid, then you will be responsible for the $325.00 fee.


______ YES I would choose circumcision if I have a son.

______ No I would NOT choose circumcision if I have a son.



Blah blah blah, sign your name and all that.

Paid_______ Yes ___________ No



As you all can see, they are very concerned with getting their money and not so much concerned with anything else. It was hard not making editorial comments as I was typing that, but I know you all will add your own as you read it.

There's a portion where you're supposed to sign where it says "Patient Signature"....I said to the woman "But how can he sign this, he's not even born yet" and she said "No, that's for YOUR signature" and I said "But it's not my penis, I'm not the patient"...and of course she just chuckled, you know, because I'm oh so silly.

I freaking hate people sometimes.
post #2 of 13
I'm appalled.
post #3 of 13
Oh. My. That is disgusting! And horrible. And icky. And I would have given that smug ha-ha woman a speech she would have never forgotten.

I am so glad my hospital didn't even mention circ'ing to me. My OB was happy we are against it, and no one even mentioned it to us while I was in labor or after he was born.

Of course, the next baby is going to be (like our son should have been!) so there won't be anything at all to worry about.

~Nay
post #4 of 13
:Puke
Greedy bleep bleep bleepers is right.
post #5 of 13
It doesn't seem really likely that someone who has already paid $175 (with no additional info about hte procedure) will change their mind and not get the procedure they already paid for, so then even if the doctor does give reasonable consent info, the parents are more likely to say 'oh well we already paid for it'.

But, there is good in that form - I'm glad to hear the insurance companies aren't paying for it and hopefully the money will deter some parents from getting it done. I'd rather they didn't do it because its wrong, but if it doesn't get done becaues they can't afford it, it still saves the little guy.
post #6 of 13
Ok think about this. How many parents have chosen circumcision since the 1980s for there kids. That might need some reason for there decision. Or a excuse not to feel bad or regret there decision. Not all are this way. But believe me there are parents who are this way. Who are willing to give more money out to organizations that support there beliefs. Not only are the hospitals involved the doctors or who ever is gaining in this procedure. But the parents too! Whether they give financially out to the studies to prove it. Or whether they support it by looking for hospitals or doctors who support there belief. Who in turn sees the financial gain in supporting this. Decides to give out for research to prove its benefits. To further there current revenue . Its a never ending cycle that just reproduces it self in the end. This is only a working theory. But I hope it makes some sense to you.
post #7 of 13
Let's look critically at this.

It's often said that a circumcision takes about 5 minutes. At $325.00, that's $3,900.00 per hour. At $175.00, it's $2,100.00 per hour. Sounds like greed to me. Let's look at it another way. Medicaid won't pay for it so they give these parents a break and do it for $175.00 instead of $325.00. Why is that? Is it because they would rather have the $175.00 than nothing? Sounds like greed to me. The insurance companies won't pay $325.00 so you have to put up a deposit to make up for the amount the insurance company won't pay. Sounds to me like if you have insurance they figure you either have a decent job and can pay or you have the where with all to buy your own private insurance policy so surely you can pay the shortfall. Yup, sounds like greed to me.

Now, as if $3,900.00 wasn't enough of a per hour charge, we have recently had reports of the circumcision service charge being as high as $700.00! That's $8,400.00 per hour! That's excessive greed. At this rate, a doctor doing just 3 circumcisions a week could earn almost $110,000.00 per year from circumcisions alone.

It'$ little wonder they don't di$courage parent$ from circumci$ing.



Frank
post #8 of 13
Unbelievable, a circumcision payment plan...and I thought I had heard it all!

I would get together a packet of information and try to educate these bozos along with a letter advising them why I no longer require their services.

Disgusting!
post #9 of 13
I've told this experience elsewhere, but when I worked in a hospital birth center, assisting with circumcisions, I once talked with a female Kaiser (HMO) doctor while she was performing a circumcision. She said she wasn't sure if she'd ever circumcise her own son, and went on to explain that after providing prenatal/delivery care to a woman for 9 months, they were lucky to see $1,500. She said the circumcision takes just 10 minutes and was easy money. She actually said, AND I QUOTE: "It's candy." I will never forget that. I asked her if she thought the money motivated doctors to encourage parents to circumcise, which she quickly denied. @@

InDaPhunk-

My advice? Contact the attorney at arclaw.org and send or fax him a copy of the form you received. Noharmm's "Know Your Rights!" section of their website states:

"Although laws will vary from state to state, certain individuals listed below may initiate litigation against those responsible for a particular abuse. NOHARMM can help you to find an attorney if you feel you or a loved one have been wronged by or suffered genital abuse by a medical facility, physician, or non-physician."

One of the reasons to consider legal action includes:

"Parents who were solicited for circumcision without requesting it. In most states, it is illegal for a medical facility or professional to solicit for unnecessary surgery. Offering or giving a new parent a Circumcision Consent Form is solicitation. If you are presented with such a form that you did not ask for, you may be able to bring legal action against the hospital. Winning such a case could set a legal precedent to stop this solicitation and thereby protect children in the future."

JMO,

Jen
post #10 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunflower_mommy
InDaPhunk-

One of the reasons to consider legal action includes:

"Parents who were solicited for circumcision without requesting it. In most states, it is illegal for a medical facility or professional to solicit for unnecessary surgery. Offering or giving a new parent a Circumcision Consent Form is solicitation. If you are presented with such a form that you did not ask for, you may be able to bring legal action against the hospital. Winning such a case could set a legal precedent to stop this solicitation and thereby protect children in the future."

JMO,

Jen
Very, VERY interesting thinking, Jen.....I was ready to use that line should anyone in the hospital bug me too much about circumcising DS, but I hadn't considered the concept in a general way. I'll contact arclaw and see what they say. I'm afraid that technically this isn't solicitation for surgery but only a "solicitation" for advance payment, therefore not technically solicitation for surgery. I'll check and see what arclaw says.

I just went and checked DS's medical records from the hospital (we got a copy for ourselves for a non-circ related small can o' worms) and in it there's a surgical consent form....risks, anesthesia risks, blah blah blah....DH wrote NO CIRC in huge letters across it but the blanks on the form aren't filled in so it actually doesn't say "circumcision" anywhere on it, it's just a general surgical consent form. I don't know if that legally counts as solicitation for a specific surgery or not.

FYI.....we delivered with the midwife in the practice, but in case she couldn't make the birth, we met with the two OBs (both male) in the practice so we could discuss various labor preferences, and during the meetings we very specifically discussed the fact that we were leaving DS intact. Even after all that- the meetings, the consent form, the non-payment of the fee, etc etc, the OB (that we had met with) that was on call the day we were discharged asked me (at 6:00 in the morning, and I was ZONKED) if I wanted DS circumcised (as if I'd just suddenly and spontaneously change my mind about that). I just said "No", but what I wanted to scream was "GET THE H*LL AWAY FROM MY SON YOU PSYCHOPATHIC, KNIFE-WEILDING FREAK AND GET THE FLIP OUT OF MY ROOM BEFORE I SMACK THE EVER-LOVING SH%T OUT OF YOU, YOU MONEY-GRUBBING MUTILATOR".....

I think I did a good job keeping my cool.
post #11 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by InDaFunk
I wanted to scream was "GET THE H*LL AWAY FROM MY SON YOU PSYCHOPATHIC, KNIFE-WEILDING FREAK AND GET THE FLIP OUT OF MY ROOM BEFORE I SMACK THE EVER-LOVING SH%T OUT OF YOU, YOU MONEY-GRUBBING MUTILATOR".....
I wish every parent who doesn't want their son circumcised would say that. Within about two weeks all of this solicitation would stop dead cold.

: : :


Frank
post #12 of 13
Y'know, it makes sense that it's about greed. If they don't get you moments after the birth, they seem to find a reason for it to get done later. "Oh, jeez, look at that. There's some skin dangling there, yeah, that's gonna have to come off. That'll be $375."

I guess that's one of the good things about having healthcare in Canada. The government doesn't really want to pay for extra, useless things, so they just say "Oh, we don't really think that's necessary, we're not going to cover it anymore. If you really need it done for whatever reason, you're going to have to pay for it, yourself."
post #13 of 13
Originally Posted by InDaFunk
I wanted to scream was "GET THE H*LL AWAY FROM MY SON YOU PSYCHOPATHIC, KNIFE-WEILDING FREAK AND GET THE FLIP OUT OF MY ROOM BEFORE I SMACK THE EVER-LOVING SH%T OUT OF YOU, YOU MONEY-GRUBBING MUTILATOR".....


Ditto Krank! : :
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