Sodium Ascorbate - Page 23

[Ex Libris]

Hello,
I just wanted to let everyone know of my experience regarding high dose Vitamin C. I've been taking anywhere from 4-15 mg a day of sodium ascorbate for the last 3 years, depending on need. This last year I began having problems with my hands--they would get red and swollen throughout the day. I saw several doctors, none of whom could diagnose the problem.

Turns out that I have developed an oxalate problem because Vitamin C can convert to oxalates in the body (similar to what kidney stones are made of, except the oxalates are deposited--and wreak havoc--throughout the body rather than the kidneys).

I found this out because my ASD son has a problem with oxalates, too, and when reading around on the oxalate yahoo group, red hands were mentioned as one (of many) symptoms. I now have to be on a low oxalate diet to encourage my body to dump the excess oxalates. Not fun.

I'm not saying this could happen to everyone; I just wanted to share my experience in case it might apply to others.

Kelly

[Jewish Mom]

vit. C

jane s and ex libris: just wondering, which type of vitamin c have you been taking, when the not great side effects occured? is it sodium ascorbate??
thank you to alerting us to these possibilities.. much health to all

[Ex Libris]

I was taking the sodium ascorbate powder made by Source Naturals. I think that the oxalate problem is something that built up over time. Once the symptoms showed up to alert me to a problem, it was too late.

Kelly

[Jewish Mom]

vit c

thanks ex l. for responding! GL...

[mombh]

Originally Posted by Ex Libris

Hello,
I just wanted to let everyone know of my experience regarding high dose Vitamin C. I've been taking anywhere from 4-15 mg a day of sodium ascorbate for the last 3 years, depending on need. This last year I began having problems with my hands--they would get red and swollen throughout the day. I saw several doctors, none of whom could diagnose the problem.

Turns out that I have developed an oxalate problem because Vitamin C can convert to oxalates in the body (similar to what kidney stones are made of, except the oxalates are deposited--and wreak havoc--throughout the body rather than the kidneys).

I found this out because my ASD son has a problem with oxalates, too, and when reading around on the oxalate yahoo group, red hands were mentioned as one (of many) symptoms. I now have to be on a low oxalate diet to encourage my body to dump the excess oxalates. Not fun.

I'm not saying this could happen to everyone; I just wanted to share my experience in case it might apply to others.

Kelly

I was wondering if this is due to taking such high doses everyday for years?
did you also take bioflavonoids while you were taking the SA?
was their a particular reason for such high doses everyday? from what I understand, such high doses consistantly are more for the acute stage of something and then you would probably keep a low maintenance dose?
Is this something that is pretty common ?
does anyone know/think this would occur with the natural c like amla or acerola too?
what other factors need to be in place for this to happen??

thank you for sharing this info with us
there is so much still to learn ....

[Pookietooth]

I've heard that Vitamin C also competes for elimination with salicylates, so if you have a problem with them, high doses of C are not good.

[krankedyann]

[krankedyann]

Jeff and I went to bed at 1am Sunday night, thanks to the time change. Trey woke up with a fever at 1:05. I woke up sick at 4, and Belle at 6am. We all three have the flu, we caught it from Jeff when we got home last Wednesday. He was laid out for days, limp as a dishrag.

So this morning before Jeff left for work, he hauled the kid's mattress into the living room in front of the fireplace and he battened down the hatches for a REALLY bad few days. Anyone who knows me knows that normally when I get a bug, I'm laid out for a week and everything falls apart. Jeff normally breezes through being sick, and I'm the one who gets hit with the MAC truck, so I don't mind telling you I was scared of how sick I was about to get since this one had laid him out.

So I drug myself out of bed and headed towards the kitchen. Belle was already laid out on the mattress and Trey wasn't far behind. I read this thread and some others about SA here a while back, and figured I'd give it a try. I mixed us each up a dose of 4 grams of sodium ascorbate, a dose of sambucol, and a dose of Oscillococcinum. Trey and I forced ours down, Belle refused the SA but took the sambucol and oscilio.

In 30 minutes, Trey was up and playing. In an hour, I was able to get up and do laundry and clean the kitchen despite a headache. We've been doing 1 gram every 2 hours since then, and I feel ok. I'm able to function even though I'm not 100%. Belle refused to take the SA. She's still laid out on the mattress, and not able to get up and go to the toilet without help, she's so weak. I did manage to get about 3 grams into her over several hours since then, but she didn't get the loading dose, and that seems to be what made a huge difference with me and Trey. Her nose is pouring and she can't eat. She's better today, but still laid out. Next time, I won't give her the choice of whether she takes it or not.

It took 10 grams to hit bowel tolerance for me, and that didn't happen until well into the evening. I'm going to try to consume 9 grams through the day and see if that keeps me from having diarrhea from it.

So now I'm a major believer in what I've read about SA getting you over illness quickly. I went and ordered more to have on hand. We're going to stay on all three for a few days to make sure this is over with. I'm using the baking soda and AA mix until it arrives. our local HFS didn't have the SA.

We were exposed to chicken pox last week, so now we're waiting to see if we get the pox, too. If the kids do get it, we'll use SA during that time, too. I'm hoping it will reduce the duration and severity for them.

[Roxy2007]

oh my this thread is long.

quick one, i posted about Vit C & vax, we will be starting to vax DS at 6 months, he is now 9 weeks, EBF and will be for a while.

I read and someone posted about the Dr Sears book about dosing up babies prior to vax. my midwife mentioned to give him 3000mg, which seems excessive. he is a healthy boy, so i am thinking if breastmilk is going to be enough or should i give him a tiny bit of SA prior and a few days after the vax?

thanks

[CORGIDOG]

I wouldn't just depend on breastmilk if you are vaxing--even healthy babies need help with vaxes. IMHO , the 3000 mg of C sounds great. I don't vax, but there is no way I would even take my child to a well visit without a major dose of C for days before and after.

[GoldenGal]

[Ex Libris]

Originally Posted by mombh

I was wondering if this is due to taking such high doses everyday for years?
did you also take bioflavonoids while you were taking the SA?
was their a particular reason for such high doses everyday? from what I understand, such high doses consistantly are more for the acute stage of something and then you would probably keep a low maintenance dose?
Is this something that is pretty common ?
does anyone know/think this would occur with the natural c like amla or acerola too?
what other factors need to be in place for this to happen??

thank you for sharing this info with us
there is so much still to learn ....

I usually only took 3-4 grams per day--that's what seemed to be my optimal daily dose. I took it with bioflavonoids every time. When I felt myself getting sick or run down, I would go up as high as about 15 grams for a few days.

The problem with oxalate build up would happen with any form of Vitamin C--all Vitamin C converts to oxalates in the body and over time can do damage to your gut (among other problems). I have landed myself in a heap of medical trouble because of this: leaky gut, yeast, weight loss, muscle loss, bad cholesterol, premature ovarian failure, neuropathy, red/swollen/tingling hands, depression, etc., etc., the list goes on. You can actually die from it--oxalates gather in the body, usually in places of old injuries (my hands, for example), and can even get into your bone marrow, heart, and other organs. It's serious stuff.

You can learn more by visiting the "Trying Low Oxalate" yahoo forum--do a search for "vitamin C" or "high dose vitamin C" for specifics. The forum is run by Susan Owens, a brilliant researcher and member of the Defeat Autism Now! Thinktank who knows more about oxalates than probably anyone in the world. I just wish I had researched this better before taking such high doses.

Kelly

[Pookietooth]

Also, I read that oxalates come from a high protein diet -- is this true?

[Ex Libris]

Originally Posted by Pookietooth

Also, I read that oxalates come from a high protein diet -- is this true?

Yes, meat can convert to oxalate, as can sugar, so I have to watch my intake of both. However, I eat a bit more meat now than I did before finding out about my oxalate problem (I only ate meat a few times a month). I would like to go vegan, but if I took meat out of my diet now, there wouldn't be much left for me to eat.

Kelly

[momofmine]

I feel confused about this now. I was on the band wagon with SA being good. And I've read Linus Pauling's book (How to Live Longer and Feel Better), and lots of stuff on the internet. How do you sort out the information? Is this just because you took it at a high dose for a long time? But even many of the proponents would say that 4 grams a day is just a regular dose for maintenance.

Right now, we usually only take it when we are sick, but we take it more in the winter to ward stuff off, and sometimes I just take it just because I feel like I need it.

What do others think about this?

[tanyalynn]

OT-- ExLibris, have you ever visited the vitamin k yahoo group? It's about oxalate problems in general, most specifically for AS kids with oxalate problems. I encountered it for a different reason so I don't have any personal experience with whether it works or not, but I thought you may be interested.

Momofmine--I'm at a point of going with what works right now. My son gets constant colds in the fall/winter (so far, anyway, he's only had 2 fall/winters to date) and he gets better, faster with the SA. Despite almost constant illness (sometimes it seemed like I should just count up the completely healthy days, I may be able to do it just on my fingers), the illnesses didn't progress into anything serious and there were fewer, milder symptoms than when my daughter was a baby/toddler. I've also seen good results health-wise, because the vitamin C is an important part of our plan to get the mercury & other toxins out (my fillings caused a lot of health problems for me and I realized that the kids got a lot bad stuff, to put it bluntly). Health/behavior improvements have been caused by daily vitamin C need going down. Once the kids are healthy, I will reevaluate and figure out what to do long-term. Right now I'm assuming I'll either find a bioflavonoid or decide on a whole foods vitamin C, but everything is subject to change.

[Pookietooth]

I wonder indeed about SA and vitamin C as well as cooked vs raw, low carb vs. low fat, vegan vs traditional foods. It's really overwhelming to think too much about it.

[mombh]

I know a lot of this seems confusing, iam also just trying to make some sense out of al this.
So, we know there is overwhelming evidence for SA fighting disease/pathogens etc; I wouldn't question that, if me or my kids come down with something I don't hesitate to take SA.
I guess the questions would be aimed more at long term use, everyday maintenance etc; so, is oxolate accumilation a problem for everyone???
are their other co-factors? how do you know where/when you are at that level that you need to back down?
I have also read that SA can actually help with Yeast and leaky gut so how does it also cause these???
so many questions ?????
to few answers.....sigh

[sarahmck]

I posted a new thread but I'm going to post here as well, simply because I really need to know the answer quickly.

I'm almost out of SA and immediately need a lot more as my 100 kg husband has chicken pox so I'm going through 6 tsp per day. I am having trouble finding it over here in the Netherlands. However, I am finding lots of magnesium ascorbate, which is billed as buffered vitamin C. Can I use it as an alternative?

[tanyalynn]

There's a way to mix ascorbic acid and baking soda, the ratio should be somewhere in this thread, to be equivalent to sodium ascorbate. That said, short-term I'd use probably whatever I could get my hands on rather than nothing. Hope he feels better soon!