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Sodium Ascorbate - Page 27

post #521 of 564
Wow. I read every word of every page. I really hope I do not ask something that was already asked.

So taking into account the oxolate issue that came up for another user, yet the overall concensus (I have the books mentioned on hold, I will read them) that supplemental Vit C/sodium ascorbate in the powder form is a good thing for your entire system, it makes sense to me to start taing it, perhaps not in the uber high maintenance dose, but still in a dose on the high side of things.

okay. I can do that.

I don't drink juice, or smoothies. Just water and tea. So is mixing it in water still a decent option, and won't taste horrid? if I mixed it WITH some Emergen-C for the kids, in water, to mask any SA taste, would that work do you think?

Next, I recall MT saying that if she feels an illness coming on , she waits to see if it's mucosal, a cold, or not. If it's NOT a cold, she loads on the extra SA, but if it IS a cld she backs off on the SA until it's finished in her system.


Why? Is this a practice that makes sense, in your understanding of SA?


To get all my questons out at once, I've also read the first 20-odd pages of the mmunology 101 sticky . . . but it just bowls me over, I cannot get a firm grip on any of it, as it so complex and ALL so specific and new to me (and I used to work in supplements and nursing). Is there another way I can start, just start, to get a handle on this sort of immune system information? A book? I understand, purely in a nursing degree way, how the immune system works. but in terms of testing my soil and adding missing nutrients and knowing what's low in the farms in my area where I buy our foods, whoa. I'm already lost.

With all the food aversions and varied dietary needs of our household of 5, I need to supplement for some things, in addition to having a healthy, whole foods (but not TF) diet. I want to get a rasp on how to give our bodies what they need to have the strong immunity they need.


Oh and, a page back or so, a user said this thread is like memory lane, 'back when you could buy supplements made in China without worry'. Okay, I avoid MIC foods etc . . . so is there guaranteed NA sources of SA out there? I have access to the natural factors chews that MT refers to for travel, but I want a daily powder that is safe also.


Thank you in advance for your help. I am so glad I am able to ask this of such knowledgeable people.
post #522 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
Another is to have oxalate degrading bacteria in your gut. There are some really specific strains that are good at that, and bifido-bacteria are supposed to be good as well. VSL#3 has the bifidus.
Both lactobacillus and bifidobacteria have been shown to degrade oxalates in studies.
post #523 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCM View Post
I don't drink juice, or smoothies. Just water and tea. So is mixing it in water still a decent option, and won't taste horrid? if I mixed it WITH some Emergen-C for the kids, in water, to mask any SA taste, would that work do you think?
Why even use Emergen C at all? it contains a bunch of other stuff in it and is very expensive.


Quote:
To get all my questons out at once, I've also read the first 20-odd pages of the mmunology 101 sticky . . . but it just bowls me over, I cannot get a firm grip on any of it, as it so complex and ALL so specific and new to me (and I used to work in supplements and nursing). Is there another way I can start, just start, to get a handle on this sort of immune system information? A book? I understand, purely in a nursing degree way, how the immune system works. but in terms of testing my soil and adding missing nutrients and knowing what's low in the farms in my area where I buy our foods, whoa. I'm already lost.

With all the food aversions and varied dietary needs of our household of 5, I need to supplement for some things, in addition to having a healthy, whole foods (but not TF) diet. I want to get a rasp on how to give our bodies what they need to have the strong immunity they need.
I think there is no easy answer to this. You just have to follow whatever path that you are on and take it where it leads you, Grasshopper! Believe me we are all confused in some way most of the time.

Just one book or organization won't have the whole answer for your and your family. Now *I* would say Weston Price and his book "Nutrition & Physical Degeneration" is most of the way there. But even there are issues with his foundation WAPF being complex and open to interpretation. And of course there are issues with dealing with a damaged body, interventionist medicine and toxic world many generations later that perhaps needs much more support than a whole foods TF diet is able to offer.
post #524 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
DID YOU SEE THE PRICE ON THOSE PROBIOTICS?!?! $2.90 A DOSE.

How long are you supposed to take them? They have a lot of probiotics per pkt. at least.


Pat

I have heard many reports of VSL and all of them say they were great while you were taking them but not when you stop. I wonder if it had to do with how they colonize and if they actually attach to the epithelial cells. Otherwise they would be like kefir or yogurt, just offering transient benefits while you take them. However, unlike most dairy ferments, they do contain bifido, which I think is essential for a really damaged gut. Bifido numbers 10x more than lactobacillus and dominates the large intestine. It plays a large role in keeping candida numbers down even in adults.
post #525 of 564
thanks Jane. I hear you that one book won't say it all, I just meant is there a good book I can 'start' with, just to get the basics, to get a general gist, so that over time, as I revisit the thread, the info in the immunology thread won't feel so overwhelming, and I can begin to incorporate that knowledge into my life..


The Emergen-C thing was part of wondering how straight SA in water tastes? That I'd add a touch of Emer-C if needed to make it more pallatable for my kids, kwim?
post #526 of 564
One of these days I am going to have an entire weekend free to read this thread. Until then, can someone recommend a chewable form of SA for kids? It has to taste good because my four year old is tough! My son will take it in any form but not her!
post #527 of 564
TS, I just kept this thread open and read it in any free time over a week.

Another well-informed user recommends a chewable SA made by Natural Factors. Not expensive, but made here in Canada so you could get it sent by a friend or???

I think there's some concern with the chewable C damaging tooth enamel over time, but then others fet anything was better than nothing? So whatever feels right for you.
post #528 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCM View Post
TS, I just kept this thread open and read it in any free time over a week.

Another well-informed user recommends a chewable SA made by Natural Factors. Not expensive, but made here in Canada so you could get it sent by a friend or???

I think there's some concern with the chewable C damaging tooth enamel over time, but then others fet anything was better than nothing? So whatever feels right for you.
Well, the high doses of SA seem to "cure" my son every time he gets close to being sick (2,000-3,000 mg for a 48 pound boy). But I can't get ANY in my daughter when she gets ill so we all suffer. My local Whole Foods appears to sell Natural Factors so I will pick some up and give it a try! Thank you so much!
post #529 of 564
bumping.


Pat
post #530 of 564
So, at some point, either in this thread or one of Momtezuma Tuatara's threads, it was mentioned that calcium ascorbate, in a pinch, is okay. Problematic long-term, but if your kid's sick and that's all that's at your local store, go for it.

Um... could be problematic for some kids. I admit, I was an idiot, and my situation is not normal--but I should've known my situation is atypical and READ THE LABEL!

Got a bottle of calcium ascorbate here, about 4 grams of vitamin C has 470mg of calcium. Okay, fine. But a sick kid may need a lot, and a kid with a high toxic load may need a lot.

If, for example, your child's bowel tolerance is 16 grams per day, that's almost 1900 mg of supplemental calcium. Holy yikes. Bad for kids with calcium regulation problems--which is not typical, but I knew that was an issue for us.

It's been a week of no naps and hyperactive kid here.

Don't be me. I admit this is not a typical problem, but I wanted to mention it somewhere in this thread, since one or two people may benefit.
post #531 of 564
Oy! Given that most people are magnesium deficient I would imagine that there are very few who could tolerate this dose although perhaps not effects lasting a week!

Have you tried making your own SA from baking soda and ascorbic acid powder? I think the ratio is 1 part BS to 2 parts AA right? That's gotta be somwhere's on this thread but I don't have time to look right now. Stir into liquid , drink when stops fizzing.
post #532 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCM View Post
The Emergen-C thing was part of wondering how straight SA in water tastes? That I'd add a touch of Emer-C if needed to make it more pallatable for my kids, kwim?
It's got a rather strong taste, kind of salty slightly bitter but it depends on how much you add, a full glass is not bad at all.

I would just add a bit of juice and forget the Emergen-C. Or even better, mix up with some necessary bioflavonoids to go with the SA by adding NOW acerola cherry powder. And a whole foods sweetener or stevia.
post #533 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS View Post
Oy! Given that most people are magnesium deficient I would imagine that there are very few who could tolerate this dose although perhaps not effects lasting a week!

Have you tried making your own SA from baking soda and ascorbic acid powder? I think the ratio is 1 part BS to 2 parts AA right? That's gotta be somwhere's on this thread but I don't have time to look right now. Stir into liquid , drink when stops fizzing.
I'd already ordered more, it's the first time that they haven't shipped immediately, and I had to wait DAYS, but then my huge supply of SA arrived today, so all is good. Plus I never remember the ratio.

I'm worried about the flavor of the baking soda + AA, I don't want to make our supplement drink _too_ horrible. We've gotten into a rhythm, the kids don't complain about our 3x/day drinks (unless it's a complain-y day, but even then it's part of everything being wrong ).
post #534 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by TanyaLopez View Post
I'd already ordered more, it's the first time that they haven't shipped immediately, and I had to wait DAYS, but then my huge supply of SA arrived today, so all is good. Plus I never remember the ratio.

I'm worried about the flavor of the baking soda + AA, I don't want to make our supplement drink _too_ horrible. We've gotten into a rhythm, the kids don't complain about our 3x/day drinks (unless it's a complain-y day, but even then it's part of everything being wrong ).
May I ask what are your 3x a day drinks for your kids? Sorry if its been asked before and I never read it.
post #535 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by es1967 View Post
May I ask what are your 3x a day drinks for your kids? Sorry if its been asked before and I never read it.
It's pretty specific to our situation. My health problems were directly related to the mercury from my amalgam fillings, and both kids got enough mercury and other metals and chemicals that my body couldn't detoxify over the 2 decades that I had amalgam fillings that they have health and/or behavior issues because of it. Not everyone has issues from amalgam fillings like I do, my husband wasn't having problems due to his amalgams. It runs in my family but not his.

But so the vitamins and minerals in my kids' drinks are fairly typical of people taking a biomed approach to autism and related conditions. I did type out what we were using in the Chelating Mamas thread once, not sure which page...

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...435848&page=30

It was before this, but this page is the one I link the most.
post #536 of 564
I have seen people say Emergen-C is bad, but it is easy for me, so I take it. Why is it bad? Aren't all the other things in it bioflavanoids?

If not, where can I get bioflavanoids?
post #537 of 564
Im not sure if emergen c is bad, but i get my bioflavanoids right next to the vitamin c supplements at our health food store.
post #538 of 564
Hi, I am working on readin through the enormous thread but it is hard with my high needs toddler. I was wondering if anyone could help me. I was just reading on another thread that daily SA can be bad and it should only be used during illness.

I have been giving my DS ( 2 yrs old) daily SA (Hyland's Vit C) for about 6 months now. About 200-300 mg a day. I thought Vit C was safe. I had no idea it could be bad. What exactly might I have done? Have I hurt his body/health? What should I look for? What should I do? I have not given him any today. Do I just stop cold turkey? Should we see a doctor. I am worried!

UPDATE: Okay, I have managed to get through some of the thread and I think the problem is with the oxalate issue? So I think my DS is fine at this point? Sorry to panic. Just started worrying.
post #539 of 564
Hello....I thought I would post this here on this monster thread on SA, as I would be very interested in what you ladies think of this. A couple months back, when DS was 7 months...he is now 16 months....I came across the Vitamin C foundation. (I was trying to find all I could out about SA) They also have a community forum, so I posted a question asking about why SA over AA, dosing for my baby, daily dosing or just when ill, and I even brought the topic of oxilate problem up with them. The doctor that responds to these questions is Dr. Owen Fonoro, who I believe is an orthomolecular doctor. Anway, in a nutshell...and I will post a link to the actual convo at the end of this post....Dr. Fonoro said the following:

He said Ascorbic Acid is the preferred form of C because it is more absorbable than Sodium Ascorbate (which is totally opposite of everything I have learned here on the boards so far). He said that *verbatim* "it is immoral and should be criminal not to supplement children with vitamin C" (on a daily basis) and that as a rule of thumb, dosing should be 1 gram orally daily per year up to age 10. He advises not even skip a single dose, and that he gave his own son ascorbic acid all his life (6000 mg daily) and his son never once got sick until he went off to college.


I then asked about possible problems with oxilates (as someone in this thread ...I believe it was Ex Libris...could be wrong about that experienced problems due to daily vitamin C intake) and I wasn't happy about Dr. Fonoro's reply. He thought that the poster (Ex Libris) might have been a 'plant' of some sort just making up that story....I don't believe that AT ALL by the way.... and am confused as to why he would even say such a thing...

I then asked him about the importance of taking bioflavanoids with vit C and his response was this "In short, there is no need to take it with Bioflavs since it is the ascorbate ion (Present in all forms of Acorbate) that is responsible for the fantastic 'C' effects."....in the convo, he gives a link to a paper he wrote explaining why there is no need for the bioflavanoids....(I have heard so many on this board state the need for bioflavs to keep things in balance....so this response also confused me.

So I just wanted to get some opinions on Dr. Fonoro's advice on vitamin C from the moms of the world, I hate to say it, but I trust mother's intuition more than I do any doctor or scientists.

Here is the link to the conversation with Dr. Fonoro at the Vitamin C Foundation:

http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/fo...+babies#p15902

Sorry this is so lengthy!
post #540 of 564
He doesn't have his facts straight. Oxalate issues are real and are a sign that there are other problems in the body. If you have a yeast issue you might have high oxalate issues too. Yeast is a source of oxalate. If you are supplementing with Vit C on top of that, you will have an even bigger oxalate issue. Take care of the yeast issue and the oxalate issue will go away. Vit. C alone typically doesn't cause oxalate issues but it can contribute to it.
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