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Biblical Marriage Study--Debate Requested! - Page 3

post #41 of 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by CherryBomb
:

I have nothing constructive to add yet, especially as I'm in transit on my spiritual path
Do you mind sharing that popcorn with someone also standing at a crossroads with many paths at her feet??
post #42 of 342
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fullofgrace
Thanks for this. I'm wondering what definition of 'Biblical Marriage' is being used for the purposes of discussion here, as well.
No set definition. Each poster is free to define it the way her own heart, reason, book, pastor, rabbi, etc., defines it.
post #43 of 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaryLLL
No set definition. Each poster is free to define it the way her own heart, reason, book, pastor, rabbi, etc., defines it.

Will concur with BB and scratch my head along with Ruthla. Nothing rabbinic here.

Oh, wait ... unless you want to agree that Jesus was a rabbi.







post #44 of 342
Quote:
When these principles are chosen by a husband and wife in harmony with their relationship as born again believers, this brings about a Biblical marriage. This is not a lopsided relationship but one that is in balance with the concept of Christ as the head of the man and the wife together. Therefore, the Biblical concept of marriage is a oneness between two individuals that is a picture of the oneness relationship of Christ with His church, which is made up of born again believers.
Great article on what the bible says about marriage. This is also what I think describes a biblical marriage.
post #45 of 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by beccaboomom
Great article on what the bible says about marriage. This is also what I think describes a biblical marriage.
and from that same website http://www.gotquestions.org/wives-submit.html

hmmm.... :
post #46 of 342
Thread Starter 
BBM, I read the article. Then I clicked on the link there

Does a wife have to submit to her husband?

And I read:
Quote:
The submission talked about in Ephesians 5 is not talking about one-sided subjection by a believer to a selfish-domineering person. Biblical submission is designed to be between two Spirit-filled believers who are mutually yielded to each other and to God. Submission is a two-way street.
Which is what annettemarie was saying originally and yet was being told she was wrong by many.

the artice goes on to say:

Quote:
The woman was made... out of the side of Adam; not made out of his head to rule over him, nor out of his feet to be trampled upon by him, but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected, and near his heart to be beloved. The “submit” in Ephesians 5:21 is the same word as in 5:22. Believers are to submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
post #47 of 342
subscribing!

post #48 of 342
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by merpk
Will concur with BB and scratch my head along with Ruthla. Nothing rabbinic here.
got anything on what rabbis say about God's wishes for human marriage then?

I went to jewfaq and only got this:

Quote:
The Marital Relationship

Marriage is vitally important in Judaism. Refraining from marriage is not considered holy, as it is in some other religions. On the contrary, it is considered unnatural...

Marriage is not solely, or even primarily, for the purpose of procreation. Traditional sources recognize that companionship, love and intimacy are the primary purposes of marriage, noting that woman was created in Gen. 2:18 because "it is not good for man to be alone," rather than because she was necessary for procreation.

According to the Torah and the Talmud, a man was permitted to marry more than one wife, but a woman could not marry more than one man. Although polygyny was permitted, it was never common. The Talmud never mentions any rabbi with more than one wife...

A husband is responsible for providing his wife with food, clothing and sexual relations (Ex. 21:10), as well as anything else specified in the ketubah. Marital sexual relations are the woman's right, not the man's. A man cannot force his wife to engage in sexual relations with him, nor is he permitted to abuse his wife in any way...

A married woman retains ownership of any property she brought to the marriage, but the husband has the right to manage the property and to enjoy profits from the property.

Quote:
Oh, wait ... unless you want to agree that Jesus was a rabbi.
Yes, and is called that in the Greek Scriptures.

Quote:
Jhn 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
post #49 of 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaryLLL
got anything on what rabbis say about God's wishes for human marriage then?
Human marriage? I think I'll let the "rabbis" stick to jewish marriage (one does not need a "rabbi" to be married)

G-d's wishes? I am pretty sure the two hlves creating a whole thing is from G-d.
What are you looking for exactly?

How much do you know about jewish marriage, to start with? I am not sure Where I have to start.....
post #50 of 342
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelovedBird
Human marriage? I think I'll let the "rabbis" stick to jewish marriage...

G-d's wishes? I am pretty sure the two hlves creating a whole thing is from G-d.
What are you looking for exactly?

How much do you know about jewish marriage, to start with? I am not sure Where I have to start...
It's not about me, BB. Say whatever you think would be relevant.
post #51 of 342
Thread Starter 
OK, I had to dig but I found the Catholic teaching AM posted previously.

Quote:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7273/submissn.html

The apostolic letters are addressed to people living in an environment marked by the same traditional way of thinking and acting. The "innovation" of Christ is a fact: It constitutes the unambiguous intent of the evangelical message and is the result of the redemption. However, the awareness that in marriage there is mutual "subjection of the spouses out of reverence for Christ" and not just that of the wife to the husband must gradually establish itself in hearts, consciences, behaviors and customs. This is a call which from that time onward does not cease to challenge succeeding generations; it is a call which people have to accept ever anew. St. Paul ... wrote, "In Christ Jesus ... there is no more man or woman..."
I like it b/c it addresses the line I brought up before, "in Christ there is no man or woman" instead of just grabbing the Ephesians lines like a football and running with them. Basically, it agrees with the articles beccaboomom posted.
post #52 of 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaryLLL
It's not about me, BB. Say whatever you think would be relevant.
I have no idea how jewish marriage is relevant to this discussion. So I have no idea what information about jewish marriage would be helpful to give here.
Jewish marriage is beautiful and giving on both sides.
It is also "legalitic" and very specific of the husband's obligation, so christians are probably not too fond of it. :LOL
post #53 of 342
I think it probably has to do with the subject because someone (Ruthla I think) asked if Jewish marriage was included in Biblical marriage. I personally would love to learn more, because I know nothing.
post #54 of 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaryLLL
I like it b/c it addresses the line I brought up before, "in Christ there is no man or woman" instead of just grabbing the Ephesians lines like a football and running with them. Basically, it agrees with the articles beccaboomom posted.
:LOL Catholics tend to be a little more open to look at the whole picture, rather than proof-texting. It's one of the things I like about being Catholic!
post #55 of 342
Thread Starter 
One of my favorite books of the Bible is The Song of Songs.

I think it has something important to say about Biblical marriage, since it is about two newlyweds.

Here are a few choice passages:

Sgs 1:2 O that you would kiss me with the kisses of your mouth! For your love is better than wine,
Sgs 1:3 your anointing oils are fragrant, your name is oil poured out; therefore the maidens love you.

Sgs 1:15 Behold, you are beautiful, my love; behold, you are beautiful; your eyes are doves.
Sgs 1:16 Behold, you are beautiful, my beloved, truly lovely. Our couch is green;
Sgs 1:17 the beams of our house are cedar, our rafters are pine.

Sgs 2:3 As an apple tree among the trees of the wood, so is my beloved among young men. With great delight I sat in his shadow, and his fruit was sweet to my taste.

Sgs 4:3 Your lips are like a scarlet thread, and your mouth is lovely. Your cheeks are like halves of a pomegranate behind your veil.
Sgs 4:4 Your neck is like the tower of David, built for an arsenal, whereon hang a thousand bucklers, all of them shields of warriors.
Sgs 4:5 Your two breasts are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle, that feed among the lilies.
Sgs 4:6 Until the day breathes and the shadows flee, I will hie me to the mountain of myrrh and the hill of frankincense.

Sgs 4:10 How sweet is your love, my sister, my bride! how much better is your love than wine, and the fragrance of your oils than any spice!
Sgs 4:11 Your lips distil nectar, my bride; honey and milk are under your tongue; the scent of your garments is like the scent of Lebanon.
Sgs 4:12 A garden locked is my sister, my bride, a garden locked, a fountain sealed.
Sgs 4:13 Your shoots are an orchard of pomegranates with all choicest fruits, henna with nard,
Sgs 4:14 nard and saffron, calamus and cinnamon, with all trees of frankincense, myrrh and aloes, with all chief spices--
Sgs 4:15 a garden fountain, a well of living water, and flowing streams from Lebanon.
Sgs 4:16 Awake, O north wind, and come, O south wind! Blow upon my garden, let its fragrance be wafted abroad. Let my beloved come to his garden, and eat its choicest fruits

Sgs 5:1 I come to my garden, my sister, my bride, I gather my myrrh with my spice, I eat my honeycomb with my honey, I drink my wine with my milk. Eat, O friends, and drink: drink deeply, O lovers!
Sgs 5:2 I slept, but my heart was awake. Hark! my beloved is knocking. "Open to me, my sister, my love, my dove, my perfect one; for my head is wet with dew, my locks with the drops of the night."
Sgs 5:3 I had put off my garment, how could I put it on? I had bathed my feet, how could I soil them?
Sgs 5:4 My beloved put his hand to the latch, and my heart was thrilled within me.
Sgs 5:5 I arose to open to my beloved, and my hands dripped with myrrh, my fingers with liquid myrrh, upon the handles of the bolt.

post #56 of 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by annettemarie
If you quoted any source that was Catholic, I apologize. I didn't see it, and you ignored the Catholic sources I posted.
Could our Catholics please point me in the direction of some sources for the Catholic Church's stance on marriage?

Long story short, I have attended church several times with my best friend, who is Catholic. Father A has the most mesmerizing sermons, and he always leaves you thinking and looking at the bigger picture. So the ever knowledge-thirsty self-professed geek that I am would like some more sources since I'm on a search for my path, anyway.

I have Catholicism for Dummies, but I'm looking for deeper, more scholarly reading. I also have a Catholic Women's Devotional Bible, so verses Catholics refer to are welcome, as well. (if they are in the other thread, I must have missed them as well. But then, the thread got pretty messy/hectic for awhile! LOL)
post #57 of 342
OK, Dar, that's the kind of marriage I want!

Note to self: read Song of Songs to DH!
post #58 of 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by liawbh
OK, Dar, that's the kind of marriage I want!

Note to self: read Song of Songs to DH!
Ooooh now there's an idea!!

Sounds like my kinda Biblical Marriage, too. ::swoon::
post #59 of 342
FullofGrace, are you looking for a "What is the Catholic stance on marriage" kind of book, or are you looking for a Catholic marriage help book?

If it's the latter, I loooooove Gregory Popcak. He wrote my absolutely favorite parenting books EVER called "Parenting with Grace: Catholic Parent's Guide to Raising (almost) Perfect Kids"- It's AP from a Catholic perspective, totally anti-spanking, and just beautiful.

Anywho, he also wrote a book called "For Better, Forever" which I have not read, but I've read lots of his marriage stuff, and it rocks. Plus he's funny, which helps!

You can read his credentials here, as well as some selections from his books
http://www.exceptionalmarriages.com/about.htm
post #60 of 342
Ahh, that sounds GREAT and is a lot of what I'm looking for. I'm a bookworm, so all good reads are welcome suggestions.
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