The (mama) guilt factor

[Juliacat]

Have you ever had to do any of the following?

-shop at a big discount store even though you disagree with their labor practices

-buy mass-produced even though you would rather support a WAHM

-avoid giving money to a charity whose cause you believe in

-buy white bread, non-organic produce, etc. even though you know it's not healthy for you or your kids

I know there's a lot of pressure along the lines of "You're a better citizen/mother/human being if you support _____ good cause with your money." And, to an extent, that's true. But what do you do if you don't have the money?

[Mountain Chick]

Yes, to all your questions. :

Just wanted you to know that I can sympathize.

[Juliacat]

And do you actually have to have a certain amount of money in order to be a good person?

[dziejen]

Yep. All of the above. I struggle with this too -- balancing savings with what feels right. Also I struggle with wanting to buy more healthy food and different products that are in 5 different stores and because of gas prices and time needed to shop everywhere I end up buying what I can get wherever I can get it sometimes. Can be very frustrating.

[Amys1st]

To answer your questions:

shop at a big discount store even though you disagree with their labor practices
Yes and then I found out about what you're talking about. Now I do not shop at the big "W" or big "K" either. But before I figures out the affront to human rights I noticed I would buy stuff that had to be replaced very quickly or the stuff would go bad, have a few bad diapers etc so costing me money.

buy mass-produced even though you would rather support a WAHMI have bought mass produced tupperware and supports several WAHM, the same w discovery toys, pampered chef, mary kay, tastfully simple, and Creative Memories. Loved every minute of it and made some great friends in the process.

-avoid giving money to a charity whose cause you believe in
I have giving the red cross a lot of money this year for Katrina. Now that this terrible tragedy stuck southern asia, we cannot give any more since we also donated for Tsunami relief at the beginning of the year. But if they come asking, I can give a very minimal amount- even if its a few bucks. If all else fails, I can give my time.

-buy white bread, non-organic produce, etc. even though you know it's not healthy for you or your kids
I'm not a big white bread fan, but a good portion of the food we eat is non organic and I am living to tell you. But we are a 99% scratch kitchen and we cook very healthy foods. We have our own garden every year and can from it. Sometimes it ends up being not organic. Its healthy fine, stop beating yourself up about it.


OK, let me throw one in: DD is sick this week. Not from our non organic food but from preschool no doubt. She is very healthy and is operating about 90% which is how I knew she was ill. She will be fine tomorrow. But today the Ped suggested that we get her a flu shot since I am expecting and God only knows what she could pick up now and pass on. This is the first year ever my whole family might get a flu shot. We never did before but now its like hmmm?

Ever have that question?

[Amylcd]

They all apply to me.

[AngelBee]

They all apply to me as well

[Ruthla]

Originally Posted by Juliacat

Have you ever had to do any of the following?

-shop at a big discount store even though you disagree with their labor practices

-buy mass-produced even though you would rather support a WAHM

I shop at thrift stores, use hand-me-downs, make it myself, or do without certain items, to minimize my use of mass-produced items. I do shop at Target for certain items though, since I dont' have a moral problem with Target.

-avoid giving money to a charity whose cause you believe in

I can't give what I don't have. I give to the "feed, clothe, and house Ruth's kids" charity first.

-buy white bread, non-organic produce, etc. even though you know it's not healthy for you or your kids

I do what I can. I usually can't afford to buy organic.

[Eman'smom]

I think we all do the best we can, I also think it's important to keep your family and your time in mind. Sure I could go to 10 different wonderful places for 15 items and spend my day driving all around town, or I could go to the local Target......

[Belleweather]

There is nothing in the world that I need badly enough to shop at Walmart. If I can't afford the few pennies on the dollar it would cost to buy it at Target, where the labor practices are more reasonable, then I don't need it that badly. However, I am blessed to live in a big enough metro area that I have other options when it comes to grocery stores. I don't know what I would do if Walmart were my only option in that regard... probably move.

Also, I'll probably catch a lot of flack for this, but I don't feel like I owe a WAHM my business, and I guess I don't understand why others do feel that way. I respect their feelings, I just don't get it. I figure that the difference between buying products from the local, non-corporate cooking store and a mama doing 'pampered chef' is miniscule as far as who I am really helping -- the people who own my local cooking store, and diaper shop, and creative kids toy store need to feed their kids too.

But yeah, I'm with you completely on the charity thing and the organic foods... we eat mostly local/organic in the summer when it's easy because the farmer's market is cheap and close, and we try to preserve that stuff for winter eating, but when we're buying at the store we buy mostly conventional. Charities at least I can give my time to, but it's really hard when it's something I SO support and I know that what they really need is a check.

[TzippityDoulah]

yep!

those all apply to me.. well except white bread b/c I just would rather have no bread b/c it's yucky haha.

I shop at W & K & Target.... I've never bought a thing from a WAHM. I buy very little organic b/c I have no money to. I live in a small apartment on the bottom floor of my parents house b/c I cant afford my own home b/c I'm a SAHM and my husband works as a photographer which gives us little income.

but you know what? 99% of the time I'm happy. I love my children. I own my posessions; they don't own me. My husband works a job he loves and therefore comes home happy. our little apartment, though sometimes squishy, feels like home. Comfortable and homey. and I'm grateful to have it rent free for the ast 2 yrs!

sure we have nothing in savings, and the most I could ever donate to any charity is my prayers, thoughts, and VERY occasionally some volunteering. But we live WITHIN OUR MEANS... and I think that is the best thing you can do for yourself, the country, and this world.

running up a credit card bill full of charity donations or WAHM's products is not a responsible way to live, nor a good thing to teach your kids. and that's whats most important.

I do know your guilt, however. it's an ugly thing that is often followed by resentment and envy towards those who do have more. and I'm guilty of that!

[dharmamama]

Originally Posted by Belleweather

There is nothing in the world that I need badly enough to shop at Walmart.

:

I don't know what I would do if Walmart were my only option in that regard... probably move.

:

Walmart being the only game in town would seriously impact my quality of life, so I would move.

Originally Posted by Juliacat

Have you ever had to do any of the following?

-shop at a big discount store even though you disagree with their labor practices

No. I buy at thrift stores, I use Freecycle, I network with neighbors and friends, or I do without. I refuse to shop at Walmart, I never have, and I have managed to live quite sucessfully without it. I would rather not have something than support that company.

-buy mass-produced even though you would rather support a WAHM

To be honest, the only thing that I really associate with WAHMs is cloth diapers, and I did not buy mine from a WAHM. I did buy them from Motherease, which is, I believe, family-owned. But I generally do not buy new products anyway, no matter who produced them, so it's not much of an issue for me.

-avoid giving money to a charity whose cause you believe in

Yes, every day. I am besieged every day with appeals for various charities. I can't support them all. I support a select few that reflect my most deeply-held ideals and I don't feel guilty about the rest. One of my criterion is that the money I give has to go directly to helping people. I don't give to organizations who use their money to lobby or send out informational literature or organize letter-writing campaigns. I send my money to organizations who spend it directly on needy people. Thus, we support a camp for kids with AIDS, we sponsor a child in another country who has HIV, and we donate to an adoption agency. We do not support the Center for a New American Dream or Co-op America or other organizations like that, even though we wholeheartedly believe in their missions.

-buy white bread, non-organic produce, etc. even though you know it's not healthy for you or your kids

I would go without bread before I would feed my kids white bread. I buy whole wheat bread at a chain bakery outlet for 92 cents a loaf. But I rarely buy organic produce. I can't afford it. I used to feel guilty about that. Then I visited Ethiopia and I saw what people there have to live on and my attitude changed like that *finger snap*. I cook from scratch and I do the best I can and I don't worry it anymore.

I know there's a lot of pressure along the lines of "You're a better citizen/mother/human being if you support _____ good cause with your money." And, to an extent, that's true. But what do you do if you don't have the money?

If you don't have the money, donate your time or your prayers or your good thoughts. If you don't have the money to buy the types of products you would choose to buy in a perfect world, think long and hard about whether you need the products at all.

I sat down a while back and I made a list of all the things I would like to do to be a good global citizen. Then I prioritized them. We chose five things to focus on. Those are the things we do. If and when we get those down pat and have the time or finances to work on more of them, we will. But I truly feel like my main contribution to the world is to raise my kids well, and as we have chosen to concentrate our finances on adoption, we don't have a lot left over for other things. I am fine with that, because we have consciously prioritized and I accept the fact that we can't do everything.

Namaste!

[Juliacat]

Originally Posted by dharmamama

If you don't have the money to buy the types of products you would choose to buy in a perfect world, think long and hard about whether you need the products at all.

Yes, a perfect example of that is that I would love to buy a pair of shoes from No Sweat Apparel, but can't afford it. And it's just as well, because I definitely do not need a pair of shoes.

I haven't shopped at W in more than two years. It's just a part of our routine to go to three or four different stores each weekend, and we have it organized so it doesn't seem like nearly as much of a bother as navigating one huge nasty store. For things like underwear and shampoo, I agree 100% that if we can't afford the extra three cents to buy it at Target, then we probably don't need it. But our food bill has drastically increased since we started buying groceries at real grocery stores. Every week, I have to ask myself whether I can afford to choose the healthier food options when they cost more. Sometimes I buy what's healthier, sometimes I buy what's cheaper. It feels like a struggle to me.

I just plain don't feel comfortable buying used diapers--and psssst, yes Mother-Ease is family owned and I don't think there's an ethical difference between buying from them and buying WAHM :--so I did buy/ask for mine new, and most of them were mass-produced and I feel fine about that. But I think a lot of mamas in that subset feel guilty for buying mass-produced instead of handmade. It's part of what makes me wonder if there's a certain amount of money you have to have before other people will consider you to be a "good" person.

We give money to our church, and we gave approximately $20 to relief efforts for two of the more recent natural disasters, and I write letters for Amnesty International. I worry about what's going to happen when our income gets reduced to the point where I can't even do some of those things any more. I guess I should start looking into volunteer opportunities already.

[Amys1st]

Speaking of WAHM businesses- MAry Kay was a single mother, Doris Christopher was a WAHM who like to cook so invented Pampered Chef.
Motherwear- the best nursing tops and made in America was started as a WAHM who is a LLL leader.
I will try to give the business to WAHMs first when I NEED something. But I am not going to buy my friends Synergy vitamins right now because she sells them. I cannot afford to use them and the local healthfood store has a better stock of what I need.
But I do give to my friend who sells tastefuylly simple because I like a few of their spice mixtures. But how often do I need those?

As far as diapers, I will need them in about 9 months so I do intend to support some of the many WAHMs in this community.

I don't even want to touch the Walmart issue. Thats like argueing on a Dr Phil show kwim

[Kimcarrots]

Oh man do I struggle with these issues every day!!

We do buy from our local salvation army or pick up loot at free tables but last week I broke down and purchased sweat pants for my kids at Old Navy!! (my YDS has tactile issues with all pants except sweats) I hated doing it but I balanced it with the thought that I could have spent way too many hours driving from consignment shop to consignment shop (i had already checked the sal army and 1 cosign shop)then i would be the cranky mom with the cranky children and fuel ...... So it was a life energy vs. ideals tradeoff...was it a good trade off? Still not sure on that one...

As for charity..we plan to adopt from Ethiopia next year and last night we decided as a family to sponsor a child (the kids have a portion of their allowence for giving and they decided to pitch in). This morning I woke up thinking "now why did I do that, where are we gonna find the $30 a month??" But come hell or high water I'm gonna do it anyways

I agree with Dharmamama,

"If you don't have the money, donate your time or your prayers or your good thoughts. If you don't have the money to buy the types of products you would choose to buy in a perfect world, think long and hard about whether you need the products at all."

We wash our hair with castile soap, wash our laundry with straight baking soda, use baking soda on our armpits.....if we want natural and can't afford the "good stuff" (for our health and the environment) we make it or live without.

Spending time guilting ourselves (me included) over this stuff gives us less time to look around and enjoy what we do have...love, sun, etc.
Decide what you can do and stick to that...I think the old saying runs true...we can't do everything

[flminivanmama]

I never shop at those big stores, not only do I not want to but I can't afford to anyway! LOL

We make do or do without...

WAHMs - well what's MOST important to me is shopping in my local community - that's a hot button issue for me... so I try to do that as much as possible.

charity - nope can't afford to.

organic - I belong to an organic fruit & veggie co-op! the prices are less than retail (even for NON organic produce), the stuff is fresher, and on the weeks I help out I get money off my share!!

is white bread THAT much cheaper than wheat? If I watch the sales I get wheat for about $1.50 a loaf... bread seems expensive regardless... there is a bakery outlet not far from me that I keep meaning to check out - I bet it woul be even cheaper there...

[dharmamama]

Originally Posted by Juliacat

It's just a part of our routine to go to three or four different stores each weekend

I hear you! I shop at five stores when I do the grocery shopping so that I can get the lowest price on all the items I buy while still getting the best quality I can afford. I start at the farthest away store and shop toward home. I do major shopping once every two weeks and then, in between, I take the bus to get fresh produce (I can carry that amount home on the bus). I have managed to pare our grocery expenses down to about $220 a month for a family of four (and that includes cat/dog food, litter, and all cleaning supplies and toiletries. It's still more than I care to spend, and I'm still working in paring down more, and I don't use that much more gas than I would if I bought it all at one place because three of the stores I shop at are on my way home from the main store I shop at.

Namaste!

[CerridwenLorelei]

what about the new

sara lee whole grain white ?

[TzippityDoulah]

guilt vs. conviction

I think one thing we need to consider is why we feel guilty. when we think really hard down deep into our hearts do we feel guilty b/c what if someone we knew and respected a natural or AP or organic or super crunchy or environmentalist/activist person saw us buying what we buy? or are we thinking this is something we have deep convictions about... and convictions are a personal choice. perhaps you think boycotting walmart isn't as big a deal to you as say volunteering at homeless shelters (JUST AN EXAMPLE!) then that's a choice you need to make and NOT let other's guilt you into anything else. you can't save the world all by yourself!

: have you ever noticed that if you ever say something like "well we're kinda tight on our finances this month" (or something of the sort) the other person almost always agrees with "oh yes us too!"?? Even if you're talking to an upper class two income family living in the freaking bahamas!! it's b/c people tend to leave beyond their means and always feel "strapped".

however there are those of us who don't have the option of giving up something just to get something else. for instance, some people can't make it a priority to get organic milk vs. regular milk b/c they don't have a dime... beggars can't always be choosers. and occasionally we are all "beggers" even if it's for a day... it's easy to forget how that feels! it's so easy to throw solutions saying "well I get my milk from a dairy in town that sells for cheap..." or whatever. but those options aren't always available to everyone. it's not always that easy to do. as long as we re striving for better that's all we can do sometimes. and that's not a bad thing.

for instance, I don't live in an apartment b/c I choose to spend money on organic produce instead for the well being of my family. I live in an apartment b/c no atter how I cut it I can't afford my own home right now. Granted I sound like a much better person if I claim the first, but it's truthfully the latter!)


having said this... I'd also like to say that just any "wheat" bread doesn't mean it's better than white considering most wheat breads (unless "whole wheat") have a substansial amount of white flour in them.

I don't remember who said it (b/c now I can't find it of course! haha) but they said they pick out a list fo five thing they *can* do to better themselves and this world and focus on those and anything esle is extra. I like that additude!!!

[TzippityDoulah]

oh yeah...

I meant to mention in that mile long post I just made: =P

I, ignorantly, had no idea Walmart was such a hot button issue... anybody care to fill me in on exactly why? I know this probably sounds dumb, but I guess since I don't have much money I never really imagined how I could live my life without Walmart... but I'm going to give it some consideration now!

please don't berate me for not knowing...