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3 in Minnesota with polio virus...  

post #1 of 111
10/13/05 at 3:17pm
Thread Starter 
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,172132,00.html
post #2 of 111
10/13/05 at 3:26pm
yeah, and I just read about how that's proof that vaccines are great. ugh- don't those people read? If they did, they'd know that these cases were *caused* by the (live) vax.
but still...I can't help but question my decision to not give ds his last polio shot. Gosh darn scare tactics- they can get to anybody...
post #3 of 111
10/13/05 at 3:38pm
Didn't the story say that those infected are members of an Amish group who do NOT vaccinate?
post #4 of 111
10/13/05 at 3:42pm
Well, I do think that's scary. I had a couple of MN pediatricians in '03 tell me that there was very little chance that there'd be any polio cases in MN and so the polio vaccine would be one I could safely assume we didn't need (because I was interested in getting as few as possible for L). After hearing that certain areas in Nigeria still have regular polio outbreaks (even if some are from the live oral vaccine, which they should not be administering to anyone because it is certainly *not* safe), the other polio vaccine was one we did selectively decide on for L.

The article says a couple of things of note, in my mind: a.) the children were not vaccinated against polio, and b.) the strain for one of the children appeared to be related to the live oral vaccine strain. What about the other infected kids, though? Also, regardless of the strain, the infected kids were never immunized (with the non-oral polio vaccine). I feel a little bit better about getting L vaccinated for this one, even though I've often felt conflicted about the ones we did choose for her.
post #5 of 111
10/13/05 at 3:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trinitty
Didn't the story say that those infected are members of an Amish group who do NOT vaccinate?
yes. the first one got polio FROM someone who had recently been vaxed with the live vaccine.
post #6 of 111
10/13/05 at 3:50pm
I don't think the live vaccine is used in the US anymore, unless I'm mistaken. The fact remains that the live vaccine is still used in (at least) Africa, and maybe some other countries. So, even if you were of a mind to think that all polio outbreaks stem from the live vaccine, seems to me that polio is still a real threat.

I should add that this is of particular concern for us, since I have to fly for work and I also bring my little girl with me.... ah, more joys of globalization.
post #7 of 111
10/13/05 at 4:19pm
We need to vaccinate to prevent polio infection because vaccination causes polio infection. Seems to me there's an easier way to solve that problem.
post #8 of 111
10/13/05 at 4:26pm
It is a bit scary though. I live in central MN and know of Amish communities that are not far from me. Poor babes
post #9 of 111
10/13/05 at 4:44pm
These kids don't have polio (which is defined by paralysis). They have poliovirus infection (OPV strain) which is what happens when you get vaccinated with OPV. The fact that OPV is contagious used to be touted as a positive quality of the vaccine. I can see being worried about OPV infections but not any more so than in the past. Back when OPV was on the schedule every vaccinated baby was a point source for a new circulating contagious infection. Now you have to scrounge around in the Amish community to find just one.
post #10 of 111
10/13/05 at 4:48pm
Exactly insider. Not to mention, just because one gets polio, does not mean they will be paralized. 1% of polio virus cases end up with paralysis. That means 99% do not (and then have natural immunity.)
post #11 of 111
10/13/05 at 4:50pm
Not to mention, OPV is no way helps people. It CAUSES polio not to mention sv40 contamination (which leads to cancer.)

Yeah, lets give a bunch of people OPV who will be shedding live virus and who do not have proper sewage systems or access to clean water........sure makes a lot of sense to me. [Sarcastic]
post #12 of 111
10/13/05 at 4:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesireeH
1% of polio virus cases end up with paralysis.
And that's 1% with wild-type poliovirus infections. This is the vaccine strain which is even less likely to cause paralysis.
post #13 of 111
10/13/05 at 4:56pm
How did these kids get the vaccine strain in the US? Are they stashing OPV somewhere (despite knowing it kills people.....SV40)? Or were they around someone who got OPV outside of the country?
post #14 of 111
10/13/05 at 4:56pm
What about the fact after they brought in vaccination, that these sorts of cases were never referred to as polio? To "have" polio, you had to have not only proof of virus in stool, but an infection, paralysis AND RESIDUAL DAMAGE 60 days after diagnosis.

So, now we twist the definition to create hysteria?

starr and mommytolittlejelly you are not thinking straight. BEFORE the vaccine, exactly HOW do you think 99.9% of people actually GOT natural immunity?

They got it, by repeatedly carrying polio virus just as these children are, and have. They never got any signs of the disease, just as the so-called immunocompromised child didn't. They simply "got" the virus, just like you people are walking around with "Staph Aureas" "Pneumococci" "Respiratory Syncytial Virus" and a whole host of unsee things on you and in you.

Now, if someone came along and said... "Oh mommytolittlelilly and Starr, your children have a long list of 46 pathogenic bacteria in their system" would you flip as you've done about this?

THIS is what immunity is about every day of your life. There are millions of potentially fatal pathogens out there that you don't see, and no-one tests you for, but you carry them every day. So because of that, what you don't know can't worry you it appears

In the old days of polio you only knew it was around when "someone" actually got paralysed. If you go have a look at your family tree and study all the oldies who stayed alive and never got the vaccine, you should think to yourself... "they were just like those kids, only they never knew it"

In fact, anyone living in Mn should know that right now, they too are probably in the situation of those three. The MAJORITY of Mn in that area has probably spread it around with happy abandon, and are none the wiser that they have. What they don't know isn't worrying them. The only thing that makes it scary to anyone, is that they chose to make it scary to them.
post #15 of 111
10/13/05 at 5:03pm
Yes, I've chosen to be scared about polio, and I've chosen to get the polio vaccine for my daughter. Please don't be so condescending to those of us who might disagree that vaccines are the root of all evil.

It's littlelilly by the way, not littlejelly.
post #16 of 111
10/13/05 at 5:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by insider
Seems to me there's an easier way to solve that problem.
Yeah, there is an easier way. The WHO needs to force pharma to cease the manufacturer of the oral polio vaccine.
post #17 of 111
10/13/05 at 5:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
It is a bit scary though. I live in central MN and know of Amish communities that are not far from me. Poor babes
Poor babes? Why? Did you read the article? It says that not a single one of the infected children is showing signs of illness. They simply have the virus. If you research polio, you will find that 99% of people who become infected with polio show no symptoms or only those of a minor viral illness. Only a very small percentage of those infected with polio actual develop paralysis, and even a good portion of those people recover completely. You should actually be thinking how lucky these children are - now that they've been infected, they will probably have lifelong protection.
post #18 of 111
10/13/05 at 5:41pm
Quote:
We need to vaccinate to prevent polio infection because vaccination causes polio infection. Seems to me there's an easier way to solve that problem.
That's exactly what I was going to say.
post #19 of 111
10/13/05 at 5:41pm
I just spent 2 months in Egypt where, as some of you may know, there is an oral polio vaccine campaign going on. The government goes around every 2 months door to door, to schools and nurseries, and even give out doses of the vaccine on street corners. My children are not vaccinated and on the last of 3 days that my kids spent in daycare during our time there, the vaccine brigade came around to the daycare dosing up all the kids. Luckily we arrived after they had left but I was a little concerned about my kids being exposed to the just-vaccinated kids. When I got the doctors office where I was doing some training for my midwifery studies, the doctor said, don't worry, they'll be fine, it won't hurt them. He was right, they are fine. I am little tempted now, though, to get their titers tested to see if they are immune. Also, just FYI, oral polio vaccine is administered ALL across the middle east, in africa, India, and (I believe) Indonesia, etc. So of course people can be dosed up and travel over to the US and spread it around.

Here's another article on the first baby who they "found" the Polio in and where they are guessing it may have come from.

http://wcco.com/health/local_story_277072757.html
post #20 of 111
10/13/05 at 5:42pm
Even though they are not showing symptoms doesn't mean they aren't probably being treated and handled like they are contagious and sick. People probably holding them with masks and not wanting to get to close.
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