3 in Minnesota with polio virus... - Page 5

[polka123]

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara

Polka, everyone else in the family did get polio. They just got it unseen, got immunity and thought she was the only one who actually got it.

The old saying is this: What you can't see, doesn't enter your head." Well, that's my butchered version.

yup, right, what I meant was no one else was stricken down with Polio as "they" would want you to believe

[DevaMajka]

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara

Deva, This study http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/conte...16/7140/1261/f is basically a lie. This one, is the one I mentioned to USSAmama where the principle research had stated to me in a letter that the provocation polio was caused by unsuitable drugs, administered with dirty needles, for financial gain, for fever and diarrhoea, and that it wasn't related to the EPI programme.

He also stated that it would be a political nightmare. He was correct. They wouldn't let him publish the truth, but I have that in his letters to me.

The full URL for the one above is:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...731&query_hl=7

Now I'm confused- doesn't that link say that injections can cause paralytic polio? Or are you saying that the lie is in the "Flawed immunisation policies" statement? That's probably it, right?

I'm worn out- researching vaxes is a lot of work- and I've only just begun.

I hope you're feeling well and Thanks for all your help and info.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

The lie was the flawed immunisation policies. Wyatt's research found that over 75% of the provocation polio cases were related to the injections of unsuitable drugs for financial gain, the rest being DPT injections. In order that the issue not become a political mine field, the Indian government blamed a flawed vaccine programme to save the corrupt indian doctors' butts, and didn't mention the other injections.

[nicholas_mom]

Goodness, I remeber reading somewhere that they found out that it was First Born Type A personality type that contacted polio. That was why with families with many children only the eldest got polio.

I wish I could remember where I read that

[polka123]

Originally Posted by nicholas_mom

Goodness, I remeber reading somewhere that they found out that it was First Born Type A personality type that contacted polio. That was why with families with many children only the eldest got polio.

I wish I could remember where I read that

my Mom was the youngest of 8 & she's the one that got Polio- no one else got it

[maudlin]

Can anyone point me to any links to refute the claim that these cases in Minnesota were the first cases in the US in the last 26 years? I feel like this argument is being used to "prove" that polio is making a comeback now that all of these "freaky" people have stopped vaccinating.

Thanks!

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

You don't need a link. They've said that the virus was circulating for two years prior to the samples showing virus, so what more proof do you need that this is a beatup?

Nicolas Mum... you just have to read books like June Opie's "Over my dead body" and Karen Butterworth's book, and read all the case stories to see that they are all A-type personalities. Even Sister Kenny's relative who used her methods here, said that you never ever got a "quiet" or "sickly" child come down with polio. It was always the pushers, shovers and live-wires that got it, or in adults, people who worked their way beyond exhaustion, which is the same thing.

[maudlin]

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara

You don't need a link. They've said that the virus was circulating for two years prior to the samples showing virus, so what more proof do you need that this is a beatup?

I don't need proof. It would just be nice to have something concrete to show to the people who don't believe me!

[frand]

I am nowhere near as well researched as many of you and I hugely respect your work. I haven't vaxxed. I have a pediatrician who respects that. He still recommended the Hib and Tetanus but didn't push them. when I declined, but he explained why he recommended them. I remember when we talked about polio, he said, "The reason you don't have to agonize over the polio vaccine is because the disease is not active in the US. But if we were to start seeing cases surface in the US, or you were to travel to countries where it still exists, I would recommend it to you because then the benefits of the vaccine would outweigh any risk because it would be your child's surest defense against contacting it." So this is a doctor who definitely did not agree with the necessity of all the vaccines out there, but had a rational perspective on when one would be necessary.

I am trying to find a place where I can listen to both sides and keep my mind open. It's very hard because even if you manage to make sense of all the complex competing technical information, the fact is that so much still remains unknown. In the end, on both sides, we are making our best guesses with no guarantees.

Many people did get paralytic polio in the past. If the disease surfaces again some people will get paralytic polio now, and it does seem that unvaccinated people would be more at risk. If I'm wrong about this, please explain to me why I'm wrong. I'm not being sarcastic at all, just help me understand.

I think to do a true test --to know the truth-- would include not just testing immunity levels in the unvaccinated Amish community, but the vaccinated community, as well as the elder non-Amish unvaccinated community (people who didn't get immunized as children, before 1958 or so). That seems like the data that would be needed to truly understand immunological differences among the current population.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Originally Posted by maudlin

I don't need proof. It would just be nice to have something concrete to show to the people who don't believe me!

Then print out the CDC article, underline the sentence and tell your friends to eat it.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Originally Posted by frand

I think to do a true test --to know the truth-- would include not just testing immunity levels in the unvaccinated Amish community, but the vaccinated community, as well as the elder non-Amish unvaccinated community (people who didn't get immunized as children, before 1958 or so). That seems like the data that would be needed to truly understand immunological differences among the current population.

Absolutely, you are correct. Except you don't need to test the Amish pre 1958, since the American population in general was reasonably well tested before the 1954 Francis Trials.

They did this before they used the vaccine, which is how they knew that in any one epidemic 99.6% of people already had "immunity".

But this is a situation where public perception is everything, and truth means nothing. They key here is to get parents to achieve a "behavioural outcome", and when the almighty dollar's "justifiable use" is the mantra for "action", why would you think they would do this? It would be a 'waste' of money. After all, they know everything don't they!

And if they did it, and found what WE know to be the truth, which they have sort of alluded to anyway, it just prove to the public just how stupid they all are.

They might also be put in a spot where they might have to tell the truth in the medical journals, which might cause a domino effect where all the other carefully placed bits of rubbish also fall over in the impact.

They might have to admit that their expertise is primarily in the purveying of scaremongery.

What would that do to both their "image" in the eyes of sheeple, and their kudos at their next pharmaceutically funded family holiday in the tropics?

Can't have that now.

[nicholas_mom]

Thanks MT for the recommendation of books :

[veggielover]

GREAT thread..... enjoying it thoroughly. Thanks to all of you who have posted research, links, etc. Much appreciated!

[Sherra]

In the back of my mind I kinda wonder how truthful these polio cases really are. Meaning....the medical and drug field has A LOT at stake if parents rebel against giving them to their children. And then you look at this whole mercury thing and watching how they are labeling shots now mercury free when quite a feww are NOT really mercury free. Then you watch how they took such a hit on the mercury issue and autism and how right on the tail of that they are talking booster series and getting them into our teenagers now...it goes on and on. It just makes me wonder if they are laying the groundwork to "prove" to the parents that they still need to keep up with vaccinations to keep these diseases at bay. Isn't it weird how these diseases keep lingering? And ones they didn't vax for have come and gone. hmmmmm....I have only been at reading this stuff for about 6 months so I'm just going off of "things that make you go hmmm..."

I always think that way when "scare tactics" are used. And ever since I saw the movie called "Wag the Dog" (if you have not seen this...omg please rent it) and observed how the media has been used as the next "Enquirer" this past year, I simply have a rough time believing that I can believe a single thing from our media. I would spend my dollar buying the Enquirer over our local newspaper..that is how bad the reporting has become.

[amnesiac]

Can anyone point me to any links to refute the claim that these cases in Minnesota were the first cases in the US in the last 26 years? I feel like this argument is being used to "prove" that polio is making a comeback now that all of these "freaky" people have stopped vaccinating.

I don't think you can really just show them that quote about it having been circulating for 2 years to prove your point. Since we're talking about an OPV strain (which is only used outside of the US), "they" will probably tell you that just because it's been circulating for 2 years, doesn't mean it's been circulating in the US. The deal is that these folks are asymptomatic - nobody would have ever known they had it if they hadn't been on a testing rampage because of the index case. They don't regularly test either people or sewage for it. If you don't routinely test for something that's primarily asymptomatic then how can you say whether it does or does not circulate regularly? And the vax status of the infected kids is really irrelevant to whether the virus is circulating. We've previously discussed how it's a well known fact that IPV does not prevent GI infection & viral circulation.

[suschi]

Well here's a big duh moment clipped from an article posted earlier,

"State epidemiologist Harry Hull last week said he expects more cases of polio infection to turn up as community members are tested."

Also, here's an article I had saved about polio found in an Ohio river,

Polio, hepatitis in Cuyahoga
Untreated waste from Akron's combined sewers infects waterway, study says

http://www.greatlakesdirectory.org/oh/070102_sewage.htm

The Cuyahoga River between Akron and Cleveland is polluted after heavy rains with potentially life-threatening diseases like polio and hepatitis.
That's the preliminary finding of a new study by the U.S. Geological Survey likely to put more pressure on the city of Akron to eliminate its combined sewers.

You won't find what you don't test for

[Tracy]

You know.... awhile ago there was a report in the Washington Times (not my favorite paper by the way but...) which discussed how the Amish do not have autism in their community. Very compelling two part piece. And it discussed how the community by far is not a huge vax community. I remember thinking...."uh, oh...watch a smear campaign against them..." just a feeling I had.

Not saying that is what is happening but it just kind of struck me.

here's the previous thread..


http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ighlight=amish

[amnesiac]

The USGS released a statement following the publication of that article to correct "erroneous statemtents" about what pathogens they found.

Regarding what specifically was found, they state that they found E coli, salmonella, coliphage & enteroviruses. They go on to clarify:

What are enteroviruses ?
Enteroviruses are a family of viruses that are made of ribonucleic acid (RNA) and protein. This group includes the polioviruses, coxsackieviruses, and echoviruses. None of these specific viruses have been identified.

What pathogens have you tested for?
We tested for infectious enteroviruses, but not specific viruses within that class. We have also tested for Salmonella, Cryptosporidium, and Giardia. We expect to have results for nearly all samples within the next six months.

Do you plan to test for specific viruses such a polio and hepatitis?
We are going to test for some specific viruses. Our plans are to test for Hepatitis A and Norwalk virus. We are also testing for groups of viruses that include enterovirus, reovirus, and rotavirus. Presently we have no plans to test for specific species in the enterovirus genus that would include poliovirus.

[Jen123]

Originally Posted by Tracy

You know.... awhile ago there was a report in the Washington Times (not my favorite paper by the way but...) which discussed how the Amish do not have autism in their community. Very compelling two part piece. And it discussed how the community by far is not a huge vax community. I remember thinking...."uh, oh...watch a smear campaign against them..." just a feeling I had.

Not saying that is what is happening but it just kind of struck me.

here's the previous thread..


http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ighlight=amish

YES Tracy ! I had the same exact thoughts. It seems to me like when the REAL studies come out that the Amish don't have autism , the bigwigs knew we (the antivaxers) were using that infomation , so they turned the tables , did a spin and VOILA~ The Amish have polio.
Which they have adequately put the fear in sheeple long ago...so I get the feeling the bigwigs are thinking "fixed that autism thing".....

I rambled , but I made sense to me....

[tayndrewsmama]

Originally Posted by suschi

Well here's a big duh moment clipped from an article posted earlier,

"State epidemiologist Harry Hull last week said he expects more cases of polio infection to turn up as community members are tested."

Also, here's an article I had saved about polio found in an Ohio river,

Polio, hepatitis in Cuyahoga
Untreated waste from Akron's combined sewers infects waterway, study says

http://www.greatlakesdirectory.org/oh/070102_sewage.htm

The Cuyahoga River between Akron and Cleveland is polluted after heavy rains with potentially life-threatening diseases like polio and hepatitis.
That's the preliminary finding of a new study by the U.S. Geological Survey likely to put more pressure on the city of Akron to eliminate its combined sewers.

You won't find what you don't test for

Then I would stay out of Lake Michigan too. Milwaukee has been having huge sewage overflows into the lake for YEARS. We don't go in the lake anyways, but now I doubt I will be walking near it either. :Puke