Wwyd?

[kater07]

I am having a really hard time having playdates at my home. It seems that nearly every time I have a playdate in my home, something gets broken. I'm not talking just DS's toys, although plenty of the special ones have been broken (more on that later).

I am talking about part of our big screen TV being broken off, kids coloring on the tv screen, my furniture being drawn on, the walls being colored on, by DH's tools (which shouldn't have been out in the first place) being destroyed or messed up, kids being completely disrespectful of our stuff. Although, DH's tools shouldn't just be left out, we are doing a bathroom renovation, and simply, the kids should be told not to play with his tools. They aren't just laying all over the floor.

During NONE of these occurances has a parent punished their child for the behavior. Nor have any of the parents apologized for their kid's destruction of items.

DH and I try to talk to the kids about why they can't do xxx, but it doesn't seem to work.

I'll tell you, my DS has written on the cabinets in the kitchen exactly ONE time. He did it about 2 years ago (when he was about 1 or 18 months ish), and has NEVER done it since. He has NEVER EVER used marker on another person, nor has he ever colored on his dressers, the walls, or any other surface that wasn't paper unless he's run off the paper on the coffee table. I only allow washable markers and crayons to be used.

I can honestly recall my DS breaking a nice toy once at a friend's house, and I replaced the toy, however, when here, other friends have climbed up onto DS's dressers and shelves to retrieve toys that are age inappropriate or very special and smashed them to bits. The parents never once apologized or offered to get DS a new one.

I haven't been able to replace any of his hard to find items. Our families are great about finding the really cool toys from when DH and I were kids. We keep them up high and DS knows not to get them down without help. These toys are rare. They are kept out of reach for a reason. Kids should NEVER EVER be allowed to climb on dressers or shelves! Period! It's not SAFE let alone appropriate.

Also, DS's bedroom is not set up for play time. I don't want the kids playing alone in a room. I want them out socializing and playing in the play area. They are allowed to bring toys out and play with them supervised. Otherwise, the kids all end up beating up on each other, on the toys or on the dog.

DS has asked during our last 3 playdates that no one go into his bedroom. He's been really great about cleaning up his room and bringing toys out that he's happy to share, but the kids just push past him and help themselves. The parents never say a word. It's not fair to my DS that he puts away anthing super special only to have no one respect his wishes. I finally just end up locking his door.

So, I get really really stressed when people want to come here. I am no neat freak. I am pretty sloppy really. I just expect parents to have expectations of their kids. I expect kids to respect each other AND the items in another's home. Maybe not all my stuff is REALLY NICE, but it's all I have, and I don't want my stuff ruined. I don't want to spend hours refinishing my antique table or my money replacing DH's tools.

Should I just stop having people over? I think that's quite rude considering how open my friends are to having us in their homes. Of course, maybe they are happy to have us over b/c they know DS is very respectful of things and well diciplined in proper use of toys, markers, furniture. I like the idea of having people over, but the stress that it causes me... It also stresses me out to just hear parents say, "xx you can't do that, xxx please stop, xxx don't hit, xxx you can't play with that it's not a toy" for 2 hours straight.

DH is beyond angry about the last 2 playdates. He's been home for parts of each of them and the destruction and lack of dicipline/punishment enrages him. We spend a lot of time during playdates trying to follow other kids around to stop them from destroying our home.

Anywho, I don't know if this makes any sense, and it probably makes me sound like a complete witch. But if you have suggestions for how to handle this either by having a way to start playdates that will keep the kids on track or whatever, it'll be appreciated. Just please don't flame me for wanting my home and my child to be respected. I already feel terrible for not wanting to have friends over. I don't need more guilt.

[momsgotmilk4two]

How old are the kids we are talking about? If they are young enough to be writing on walls, their parent should be supervising them at all times in someone else's home. I would be really clear about your expectations right when they get there. If you don't want them playing in your ds's bedroom, instead of just having him tell them that, I'd tell them and their parent that you need for the kids to play in x,y, or z room, but NOT in ANY of the bedrooms. I'd also tell the other parent if you have a remodel going on and need them to be extra careful not to play in a certain room. As far as the markers go, if you are going to be using them, I would have them sit at the kitchen table and not leave the table. That is our rule here. If the kids can't be trusted, then you and the other parent could sit at the table with the kids. Coloring and breaking your tv and climbing on dressers, that's just wild! And the parent just sits there while the child is climbing all over the furniture?

[kater07]

The kids are ages 2-5.

Yup, all of the times I've caught kids climbing on furniture and such the parents have been sitting talking in another room and DS has come running in to say that xxx is on the dresser.

I don't typically do crayons or markers when we have playtime. Again, that's where we have problems. All the craft stuff is in a drawer in DS's room, and kids will just go in and go through the drawers or get into my desk which is in a common room in our house and get MY markers or pens, etc. Most people know that the bedrooms are off limits in our house, but they don't enforce the rule when they are here. I'll hear a mom or dad say that the bedrooms are off limits and the kids need to play in xxx room where the parents are, but when the kids disappear, DH or I is the one running after the kids and removing them from harm's way.

Recently, DH was in the room when a toddler came in, climbed up on a chair, onto the table and got stuff that would otherwise have been unreachable and began beating it against the top of the table. He was right there, but waited to see if the parent would come stop her child and she didn't. *I* was busy working on actual WORK that needed to be done, and I was quite clear that I could not watch the kids at that point in time. DH was ANGRY, as you'd expect, picked up the toddler and carried him (DH was not mean about it at all, normally he'd yell) back to his mom and put him down and told us what happened. Mom did NOTHING.

I hope that when the living room remodel, which hasn't even begun, is complete, there will be space for a play area. If not, then something is going to have to be done. Maybe the rearranging of another room will help, and I can have a fenced play area or something.

It's all just very frustrating. I need my mom and mom time, but it's not fun for anyone if the kids aren't able to be trusted even for a minute.

[HippoMommy]

Are these TCS parents or is there some other parenting philosophy at work here?

[kater07]

What is a TCS parent?

Most of the parents I hang out with with the exception of 1 are Peaceful/Gentle Parents.

[Altair]

I'm confused about the playdates-- the parents are there but you're working? Are the playdates meant to be parent socializing time, kids play free time, visiting time, co-op preschool time, etc?

My solution would be to make it VERY structured. Only invite people over when you can give every kid 100% of your attention. Be prepared with age appropriate activities, and make clear at the beginning that you've prepared some special projects, and that everything that everyone can play with is in this ONE room you're all in. Block off the room by closing the door or just moving the couch or something, or have an adult sit by the door (in case any of the kids are wanderers and the parents don't respond by following them).

Bring out an activity for everyone to do, and have all adults get down on the floor and do it with the kids. If they adults don't want to, then you lead the activity. Depending on the age, r/m how long their attention span is and clean up and offer a new activity.

Some activities I'd do with age 2-5 kids:

- make your own edible play-doh
- cookie decorating
- bead jewerly (big non-chokable beads for little kids)
- arts and crafts (collages are easy)
- read aloud and act out a book
- "we're going on a bear hunt" and other interactive songs


bascially, I'd just assume that when you invite a child over who doesn't know how to have free time respectfully of other people's things, it's going to mean providing projects/entertainment for the entire time. State the ground rules at the beginning, and playfully stick to them. Kids get into a lot less trouble when they are DOING things with their hands and minds.

[CarrieMF]

What do the houses of these friend's look like? Do these friends come over to your house all the time so they can get a break and are using you as a sitter?

Honestly, my house = my rules. If the parents are going to sit there and do nothing when they know it's going on then I take over. I make it clear when they get here that they are not to get into XYZ, that is their first and only warning(especially 5yo's who should know alot better). The older ones are told that these are the rules, they are to follow them and if they don't then I will be the one disciplining. If they don't like it then they will not be allowed over until they can respect my house. If the older ones are colouring on the walls & furniture then they should be expected to be the ones to clean it off.

Now and then something happening is understandable, but if this is happening every time then it's not okay and continuing to let it happen is going to be costly. If the parents did not like me taking action with the kids, then I'd tell them it is their responsibility and they're not doing it so unless they're forking the money over for everything to be replaced then I'm going to continue to protect my house and our stuff. I'd also be examining what kind of a "friendship" is really going on.

It seems to me that it's more than just the kids not respecting you or your house. If the parents are not doing or saying anything to the kids about wrecking things then the lack of respect is originating with the parents.

[kater07]

This last playdate was a working playdate. I had something that was time sensitive to do for the mother. It was clear to EVERYONE that *I* would be doing what needed to be done for her, therefore I would NOT be watching the kids or supervising the playtime. It was a very short get-together (30 mins).

Usually the dates are for the kids and adults to visit with each other. I ALWAYS have toys in the living room and state that there are toys out to play with and to please stay in the living room with the parents. 90% of the time, I am not visiting with my friends b/c I am off chasing their kids around my house while my DS plays alone in the living room or is running after a friend trying to get something away from him/her.

I do often feel that our playdates end up being me or DH babysitting other people's kids while they sit and gab. It's nice to get a break; I understand that. I don't understand, however, not being asked for this.

As for the other houses. The one mom who doesn't sub to the Gentle Parenting Philosophy has a very very very well manered, even tempered, sweet as pie ds who rarely breaks the "rules". He has lashed out at DS once and we aren't sure why. It was bad, and she dealt with it in a surprisingly gentle manner considering that I think her first thought was to rush to the bathroom and beat her kid's butt. Her house is immaculate!

As for the others, they range from completely child ravaged to messy but clean - toys strewn about, but no major gross stuff like science projects growing under beds, food hand prints on the walls, etc.

[Mothernature]

Here's my thought. There are too many children at these playdates to meet in a home. If parents cannot socialize and trust their children to play respectfully then the playdate needs to be at a park or rec center. If you choose to have playdates at your home try inviting one child at a time. That seems to work best for most children anyway.

I also agree that there needs to be more structure. Let the other moms know ahead of time that you would like their help facilitating an activity like a game or craft project. Cooking can also be a fun activity.

Plan playdates for times children are most likely to be successful. If a child is hungry or tired they will have a harder time remembering the rules. Keep the playdates short (like 1 hour.) Have a start and finish time. Include a snack as part of the playdate. It could be the way you end the session. Play soothing music for the children so they don't get too amped up.

Take a break from having the friends over for a while. Let the other moms know that it is becoming a problem. Some of them may be experiencing the same dilemma but don't know how to handle it.

Are there certain children in particular or is it just mob mentality. It can be overwhelming when there are too many children with no real direction. My dd has a rule that no one plays in her room too. I tell them when they arrive and remind them repeatedly when they are in my home.

I also find it is easier to have playdates when they are drop off playdates. The friends listen to me better when their own parents are not around to confuse them. I realize this doesn't give you the interaction you probably crave, but it does provide you with potential reciprocation that you could use for some down time or time with a friend without the interruptions of parenting.

I hope it works out well for you.

[hopeland]

playdates

Groups of children this young need constant supervision in my opinion. I would talk to my friends and tell them you are concerned about the children getting hurt and feel it would be wise for everyone to help keep an eye on them. I think you are totally frr to tell them when they come over that these are your house rules and explain them to the kids in front of the parents. If that didn't work I would suggest having these get togethers at a park or neutral place.

[kater07]

Mostly, this is happening when we only have one child over at a time.

The only times we've had more than 1 are:

One day for a specific type of play date (when my nice microwave stand got written all over) where there WAS a plan and structure set out in the beginning

and for DS's birthday party, which will be held elsewhere next year due to the amount of destruction and mightily expensize broken objects that happened that day. That day there was a plan, but it rained, so we had to do everything inside.

We have 2 play groups we attend each week at the park and at another mama's home where the kids play outside in a park-like setting. I am wondering if I should just stick with those and not do one on one playdates.

Sigh... I love my friends. They are all pretty great. I just can't stand to see our stuff get busted up. I feel bad b/c a few of my friends keep saying to me over and over "I just don't know what to do with her. I just can't get her to listen to me. I think he needs time away from me, so I can get him to listen to me at home." I don't know how to help them, but DH is going to insist that the kids never be here if he's gonna be here if this keeps up.

I dunno, maybe I'll cut at-home playdates until the kids are older or I am less panicky.

[Mothernature]

I just noticed that you live in Florida. These kids have no excuse to play inside in sunny Florida and they obviously haven't earned the privilege of having indoor playdates. So, keep the little rascals outside for the play time, then do snacks (picnick style) and then say bye bye.

Nap time is always a good excuse to call a playdate short. You can give plenty of warning too like, "When you're finished playing you can have snacks before xxx has to take his nap." That lets the other parent know what the gameplan is too.

[HippoMommy]

TCS = Taking Children Seriously

It's a parenting approach that is very "hands off." I can't really speak about it neutrally because my experience with TCS'ing families has been bad. The TCS families I know have kids that are pretty out of control and uninterested in the rights of others (like the right to make decisions about their bodies/property/safety). \I asked earlier if that was the case here because if the parents are actually philosophically opposed to making behavioral agreements or rules for their kids, you'll probably not have much luck imposing your idea of order on these playdates. If that's the case, but your DC desires to play with these kiddos, I'd suggest meeting on neutral territory like a park or indoor playgym . . . .

PS I don't mean to be disrespectful about TCS -- I am sure there are effective, lovely TCS families out there somewhere. I just don't happen to know any personally.

[annarosa]

that sounds terrible
really what is this modelling to the children !
I think play dates only work when they work for everyone and it doesn't sound like it's working at your end ?
have you thought about talking to maybe one (receptive) mum about this and see what her reaction is ?
I really don't see any alternatives except to work on the other parents - unless you can set up some kind of zone in your house where destruction is OK ??

[Willowrose]

I've been in your shoes. I use to be a part of a playgroup that alternated houses every week. I absolutely cringed each time it was at my house. I've had things broken, spills on couches where no food was allowed, kids jumping on furniture, HUGE messes(that no one offered to clean up). It was so stressful before everyone came and after everyone left(when I had to hurry and get everything cleaned before naptime).
I honestly don't like the arrangement of having it alternate at houses. I now belong to a church moms group, once a month at different locations(pumpkin patch, zoo, etc...). Much better, totally less stress.

We have one set of friends whose kids do whatever they want in our house. I limit the time they come over. It's sad, but I can't make exceptions for her children when my own aren't allowed to do certain things. I don't let my kids jump on the couches. She lets hers even though I pointedly say we don't do that at our home. My kids love to be outdoors, so on nice days when I think it will be easy to solve the solution and get everyone outdoors, her kids(who hate the outdoors)want to play inside, unsupervised(which I'm not comfortable with). These are not TCS parents, but the kids get no discipline since it is too hard for her to be on top of them all the time.

I make sure my kids know the rules before we go to someone else's home. I remind them of the rules in the car. I tell them it's ok if they make a mistake and forget a rule, but that I will remind them and they will have to obey. For example, this same couple have a dog. They don't want the kids to run near the dog(its a puppy). If the dog starts to jump, they want the children to just stop and remain still. This is very hard for my older son, since we have 3 dogs of our own and he loves to run with them(we encourage it, since it gives the dogs good exercise!). So, he will often forget and when the dog is acting jumpy, he will run away. Friends get very upset and I have to remind him that their family does things differently than ours.

Anyhow, I would definitely try and meet at alternate locations. I truly understand your stress

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

That sounds really stressful and like you've already taken all of the easy steps.

I agree that its your house and you have every right to enforce your rules, though gently. I would decide ahead of time what the rules will be. I would then tell the other mother before the playdate. Since it sounds like you get together with these folks frequently, this should be scary, but do-able. If you truly don't feel like you can say, "Listen, last time you and Johny came to play X happened and so today I would like your help in keeping all the kids out of the bedrooms" then I would evaluate whether you should be having playdates with these people at all. Then, when Johny makes a beeline for the bedroom, I would ask the mother to intervene. If she doesn't, then you have every right, responsibility even, to say "Johny, we don't do X in this house. Please go do Y." and then back it up by physically moving the child (probably by holding his hand) back to the area that you want them to play in.

Now, this does mean that you have to be constantly on top of the situation and you won't get a chance to visit very well. But it sounds like that isn't happening anyway. Hopefully, after several repetitions of this, both Johny and his mommy will figure out that you mean it and will cooperate.

And if all of that sounds like way too much work (and it does to me!), then outside, the park, the playground, whatever, but not in the house.

[flapjack]

When my boys were smaller, we hosted various NCT coffee mornings and did roughly one LLL meeting every 6 months. What worked for us (or our house rules):
Stairgate at the bottom of the stairs. No child goes past that stairgate unless their mummy is taking them to go to the toilet.
Stairgate on the kitchen doorway. No child goes into the kitchen, ever, unless I invite them.
Special, precious toys live upstairs, if it's in the toybox it's fair game. My home has never been a zoo- people do not have the right to put their shoes on my chairs or my table. I expect my possessions to be treated with respect, and in return I treat other people's possessions with respect.
The key issue, I think, is actually having one or two visible physical barriers- to set up the mental barriers in the child's mind and making them understand that this house has rules, just like theirs does. Also, tone of voice and body language goes a long long way with this age group.

[quakerlady]

When I host a playdate with more than one other kid I always clearly define an area (usually my family room and backyard) where the kids are welcome to play and make the rest of the house off limits. I do this by taking some initiative that might offend some parents, like speaking firmly and steering a kid out of an area where I don't want them (although I usually can step in before anyone goes anywhere and just sy, sorry, we're not playing in there today.) I have a gate at the bottom of my stairs and keep it closed, and tell the kids that the upstairs is my cats' safe haven from being scared, and have the office and guest room doors on my main floor closed.
I feel no shyness about setting and explaining the limits in my own house. If a kid doesn't want to follow a rule I would ask a parent to enforce it, although I would probably phrase it more like, "Mommy X, Timmy is upset because we're not climbing on the walls today. I think he needs some comforting" or something gentle like that rather than saying, hey, control your kid.
I have never run into a parent who tells me not to tell their kid what to do as long as I am just saying in a friendly voice, "Gosh, Sally, I'm sorry, at our house we don't hit the tv with a hammer" or "Oh, dear, that's not a toy- let me put that away where it belongs." If I did, I would probably not want them to come over again.
With the people I spend the most time with we are very comfortable saying, please stop you rkid from doing whatever. This takes time to develop, but even more than that it means taking the initial risk to bring it up. Depending on the group you could do it individually or to the whole group. You could say, I feel like I don't know what the groundrules here are, how do you feel about enforcing behavior at playdates, who should do what, or you could bring up a specific incident in a non-judgemental way.

[stafl]

Originally Posted by HippoMommy

It's a parenting approach that is very "hands off." I can't really speak about it neutrally because my experience with TCS'ing families has been bad. The TCS families I know have kids that are pretty out of control and uninterested in the rights of others (like the right to make decisions about their bodies/property/safety). \I asked earlier if that was the case here because if the parents are actually philosophically opposed to making behavioral agreements or rules for their kids, you'll probably not have much luck imposing your idea of order on these playdates. If that's the case, but your DC desires to play with these kiddos, I'd suggest meeting on neutral territory like a park or indoor playgym . . . .

PS I don't mean to be disrespectful about TCS -- I am sure there are effective, lovely TCS families out there somewhere. I just don't happen to know any personally.

Your friends who call themselves TCS are just using that as an excuse to be permissive. That isn't what the philosophy is about, not at all (but I agree, some people miss the whole point). TCS children have the same capacity to learn respect as any other child, and in some cases, much more effectively.

to the OP, I agree with what the others have suggested. Try having playdates somewhere neutral, like a park or playground. Lock the doors when certain children are around. Ask the parents to keep an eye on their own kids. Don't ask the children to stop doing whatever, tell the parents to please stop their children from doing whatever. The whole issue is about respecting your rules and your things, and if they can't, I personally would stop inviting them over.

[EXOLAX]

I think you can still have your one-on-one playdates. The way you were describing it though seemed like you had 10-15 kids over! Our DD is a rules follower on her own, but had a hard time ensuring that other kids followed our house rules (not her responsibility either). We have made some accomodations:

Her art table used to be in the middle of the floor in her bedroom where the kids all wanted to play. We recently moved it into her closet and have taken to wrapping a jump-rope around the handles when other kids come over. That's where all her markers, glitter, glue, scissors etc. are and her room would get trashed with all that accessible. We also put all her board games in the closet as well as puzzles etc. and make the closet off-limits.

All the doors to our upstairs rooms lock from the inside. So I lock everyone out of every room but hers (including the upstairs bathroom). There's a hole in the doorknob to catch the lock to unlock it so I can get back in later.

We put up baby gates to restrict areas as well.

I also get all the kids together and explain the "house rules": No jumping on the loft bed and no going in the closet is pretty much what it ends up to at that point. DD knows if they want to color or draw she can come and ask and depending on who's over we'll either let them do it, or setup art material where the adults.

I have only had 1 mom ever who did not have their child/help clean up DD's room and our downstairs play areas prior to leaving. Mom's have gotten out vacuums to clean up glitter messes and wash cloths to clean off walls w/o my even noticing. The one mom who did not do this has two older boys who managed to find some crayons and drew on ALL of DD's wooden doll houses, tree house, bed and walls. This happened a number of times and I have decided that it is best to see them at their house or on neutral grounds.

I think with a little more supervision the kids will be ok and will be able to handle the situation. Seems we always have to child proof our house for different kids who come over, but we seem to have worked out a solution for us.

I did go to some playgroups for awhile where the moms thought it was more for them then the kids and they'd let all the 18 month - 2.5. year olds play unsupervised upstairs so they could drink tea. I was uncomfortable with the children being unsupervised (mine was 18 - 24 months old at the time and a couple of the children were pretty agressive) and I made the decision to supervise them. I didn't have much fun, but that was my choice. They were all "AP" parents who also thought the kids should learn to handle disagreements on their own. I disagreed and accepted that and the responsibility to supervise. Didn't last long, I stopped going because I felt I was a babysitter, but that was my own issue not theirs. To each their own. You will have to decide what will work out best for you, and which kids are better able to handle your home environment.