puberty? already? - Page 2

[boomingranny]

my dd had some breast development around 5, I stopped the soy milk and her buds retreated. Right before she turned 7 she sprouted buds again, and her armpits were stinky. Now she's 7 1/2 and they've been growing very slowly but no other signs of puberty. she had a hand xray and her hormone levels were checked and it was normal. she's bi-racial (half AA). I think it's a combo of heredity and environment - we've never eated red meat, and only do organic milk...but the things I have not control over, who's to say to what extent it contributed to her early budding. She's also very tall and strong for her age, which is a contributing factor as well. She's seems to be ok with it, we've read the books, talked about it, talked about her clock being on the early side (there are a few other girls who are early starters in her grade) but that all girls go through it at their own schedule and this is her body's schedule. She has some training bras which she decides to wear depending on her mood. I think she struggles with it, but as yet she seems to be coping pretty well. It's a shock to us as Moms but I think it's important that we try and act happy and positive for their sake. Good luck!!

[AAK]

I have been hearing about it earlier and earlier lately too. In addition to all the environmental and hormone concerns I read some research article once that was trying to link onset of menses (not the rest of puberty) with weight. It I remember right the author was trying to make the connection between estrogen production and weight. His conclusion was that most girls would have their first period around 110 pounds. I thought this was a rather odd conclusion, but then started asking around and almost everyone that I know did have their first period when they weighed around 110 pounds (as well as we can remember). Our ages were between 10 and 15 for first period. The friends I know who have children who started early (like 9 and 10) were able to confirm their dds weight to be around 110.

I know that you mentioned that your dd weight was not in the least bit heavy--this was just about menstruation not pubic hair. It just reminded me of this study.

I didn't get any pubic hair until 11 or 12. I was nearly 13 when I had my first period. My mom, thankfully, made sure that we were prepared very early. (Her best friend had started at 9 and didn't know what it was! That made a big impression on my mom.) So, take this news as a reminder to educate your daughter so that she doesn't get the opportunity to feel like something is wrong with her.

Amy

[mama2monkeys]

My almost 8 yr old {december} has started the early stages, i never remembered it this early. She has buds & wears a bra. Her armpits just recently got stinky & she did indeed get much taller. Her feet are a sz4 which is 1 away from womens. I have talked to her about her changing body & what t oexpect. I want her to be ready. Well as ready as they can be at this stage. But OMG her mood swings etc are vert much like those monthly moods you get prior to your period starting. Its scary, i have 2 girls & i'm nervous about entering this stage of development.

[ChristaN]

Originally Posted by AAK

In addition to all the environmental and hormone concerns I read some research article once that was trying to link onset of menses (not the rest of puberty) with weight. It I remember right the author was trying to make the connection between estrogen production and weight. His conclusion was that most girls would have their first period around 110 pounds.

Hmm. I can't remember what I weighed at 14, but I guess that it could have been close to 110. My mom, on the other hand, has never weighed much more than 90 lbs (she's one of those really short, tiny people!), but she got her periods around the same time. I guess that even little people would need to get them eventually, though.

So, did this author say anything about the beginning of other development in relation to weight (if you remember)? My 7 y/o weighs 45 lbs, so I imagine that it will be quite a ways off if development is related to weight. She really has no signs of puberty at all, though, so I just am not expecting her to start developing soon. I could be wrong, though. We do eat soy, too. I'm not seeing any changes in my kiddos as a result of that.

To the OP, I wasn't meaning to imply by my prior post that your dd was overweight. Sorry if it came across that way. I have just seen studies that link that as one possible cause of earlier than avg development. Of course, from what the moms here are saying, perhaps 8 isn't as early as it once was for pubic hair growth. I think that I developed on the average-late end of things, so that is more my frame of reference.

[boomingranny]

my 7 1/2 yo is 67 - 69 lbs and well over 4 feet - I chalk it up to the viking/african genes. It really is a shock in the beginning, isn't it?

[stafl]

Originally Posted by AAK

I have been hearing about it earlier and earlier lately too. In addition to all the environmental and hormone concerns I read some research article once that was trying to link onset of menses (not the rest of puberty) with weight. It I remember right the author was trying to make the connection between estrogen production and weight. His conclusion was that most girls would have their first period around 110 pounds. I thought this was a rather odd conclusion, but then started asking around and almost everyone that I know did have their first period when they weighed around 110 pounds (as well as we can remember). Our ages were between 10 and 15 for first period. The friends I know who have children who started early (like 9 and 10) were able to confirm their dds weight to be around 110.

I didn't weigh 110 until my mid twenties. I think I weighed about 75-80 lbs when I started my first period at age 12.
I think this is yet another case of correlation rather than causation. I have very very high estrogen levels because I have endometriosis. Right after my baby was born, and I was exclusively breastfeeding (when estrogen levels are supposedly at their lowest) my levels tested over 300. Doc said normal is between 50 and 100.

[13moons]

I do know that there are studies that strongly support that girls/women must achieve a critical percentage of body fat in order to begin and maintain menstruation. It isn't about weight so much as it is %body fat--that is why women who are super athletic (gymnasts, etc.) will frequently miss periods or stop menstruating all together while they are training.
That said, I started early...I don't remember when exactly I got pubic hair but I know I had it when I was 10 and broke my arm so badly I couldn't bathe myself and I was embarrassed. I know I needed a real bra, not a training bra, by 4th grade and started my period when I was 10.5 or so. I was not overweight but I wasn't skinny either.
My oldest dd just turned 11 in August. She has had pubic hair and underarm hair for a couple years. We just had to replace her B-cup bras with C-cups and she started her period last March (maybe April?). I won't even get into the body odor, mood swings, etc. She's a sensitive kid and enjoys being a kid so it has been a liitle hard on her to definitely look like a woman--she is also 5' 3" tall, weight? but she is slightly overweight, wears a size 9.5 woman's shoe. But she was as prepared as she could be--none of this came as a surprise to her--and she's trying to be proud of her changing body.
You are right to feel good that she felt okay about talking to you about it; I really believe that has been a huge factor in my dd's adjusting to these rapid changes. Good luck mama!

[AAK]

Originally Posted by ChristaN

So, did this author say anything about the beginning of other development in relation to weight (if you remember)?

Not that I remember, but I read it a few years ago. Now that this thread has popped up, I am going to see if I can find it again. It was really interesting.

Amy

[ashleyhaugh]

i was needing a bra, altho refusing to wear one, in 5th grade... got my period that year to, whats that, about 9 or 10....


edited to add, my 1st bra was i think a bcup

[Gracefulmom]

Well... if we're waiting until she's 110 pounds until she menstruates, we have a way to go. She weighs 59 pounds now... dripping wet!

From these posts, it sounds like all the symptoms (oily hair, body odor, hair in new places, breast development) can happen in almost any order. And at varying speed.

We've always taken the approach that we educate her about her body before she asks questions. So she's known about menstruation since she was 4, and she knows about puberty changes. She seems pretty cool about all of it... it's just me who has to pretend to be calm!

[ChristaN]

Originally Posted by Gracefulmom

We've always taken the approach that we educate her about her body before she asks questions. So she's known about menstruation since she was 4, and she knows about puberty changes. She seems pretty cool about all of it... it's just me who has to pretend to be calm!

I've had to fake calmness, too. My parents never discussed it with me. My mom turned bright red and told me that there was "stuff" under the sink when I told her that I'd first gotten my period. I'm trying to do better, but it takes a real effort.

Since my girls tend to follow me into the bathroom, we've discussed periods, too b/c they wanted to know about what was going on. Of course, that had drawbacks when my little one announced to someone in line at the supermarket that "my mommy has blood in her potty" when she was about 3 or 4!

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by ChristaN

I've had to fake calmness, too. My parents never discussed it with me. My mom turned bright red and told me that there was "stuff" under the sink when I told her that I'd first gotten my period. I'm trying to do better, but it takes a real effort.

Better than my mom's reaction-- "I really ought to slap you really hard across the face. That's what my mom did."

Since my girls tend to follow me into the bathroom, we've discussed periods, too b/c they wanted to know about what was going on. Of course, that had drawbacks when my little one announced to someone in line at the supermarket that "my mommy has blood in her potty" when she was about 3 or 4!

I'm the default person in my family for explaining body changes. I had to explain to both of my sisters what was going on, and I've already had to explain a few things to my niece (8 years old, major BO, mood swings, intense curiosity about what's going on in her body and where babies come from and the like). If I do not explain things to my niece *now*, my other sister will explain them to her, and she will do her best to make it seem gross and awful because she's jealous that her own body is totally irregular and strange when it comes to being an adult woman (she's got PCOS). My niece's mother has no interest in explaining anything to her daughter other than that she has no particular desire to be a grandmother before she's 30. Ain't life grand?

Anyway, my point: BeanBean (nearly three) has heard me discussing these things with his cousin. He was very disappointed to learn that he will never get a period and thus will never be able to grow a baby inside of his own body. Poor kid! When I told my mom what BeanBean had learned and intuited on his own, she was quite shocked-- "I don't think I figured all that out until I was twelve..." I think the best way for me to be calm about all of it is to get things out of the way early, with open and honest dialogue. I was planning to wait a little longer with BeanBean, but if he's listening now, who am I to say nay?

[boomingranny]

I think the key is maintaining a calm and loving face while inside you might be feeling "holy $#@# it's way too early!" I know it was that way for me...the American Girl book has been very helpful and my dd looks at it on her own pretty often. She also knows about the mechanics of making babies, but her reaction was horror. Now she wants to marry a woman and have a baby the way her friend's Mommies have done (lesbian moms). I thank the goddess she's still a little kid in her heart - I think it's hard not to second guess everything you did before that may have led to early development. But it's useless second guessing, you can't go back now.

cheers

[JesiLynne]

Hi I'm Jessica and I am freaking out
My dd just turned 7 LAST MONTH
All of a sudden she's got this tiny bit of breast tissue under her left nipple. I noticed it last night.
I have no idea what she weighs, but shes a totall skinny minny
She's always had problems with stinky sweaty hair even at 3.
And suddenly she's very awakard and shy about her body.
We have never tried to make her feel ashamed about it.
And I have noticed a change in her skin, like " baby pimples"

Am I overeacting or could this be it ???????????

Please help, I feel like I am going to let her down somehow during a time when he is going to need guidence.

[Gracefulmom]

Originally Posted by JesiLynne

Am I overeacting or could this be it ???????????

Please help, I feel like I am going to let her down somehow during a time when he is going to need guidence.

Jessica, I checked out some of the books recommended in this thread... there are some really helpful ideas. I also gave a call to dd's pediatrician before we went for her physical. I asked the doctor to bring it up with dd, and she (dr.) was really good about it. Got down to dd's level, asked if she had any questions, offered to talk on the phone or meet with her privately in the future, etc. I think just having another adult treat it as something special helped dd feel good about the changes that are happening.

[Marsupialmom]

I have begain to wonder if this starting earlier is actually awareness.

My grandmother and mil (both in 80's) couldn't tell you when their dd got a little pubic hair much less a little stinky. Matter of fact they always used talc/powder and applied it to their kids. Now, they were poor and that can be a reason they didn't buy deodorant until the 1960's when their girls were already teens well into puberty. But the powered and the stinkiness wasn't associated with first stages of puberty but with hard work and play.

My grandmother was at the birth of my sister. She was surprised that my mom had reddish pubic hair (I know TMI). My grandmother was an OB/GYN nurse. She has made a comment or two about my mom not matching like other women she has seen. But the point is that she had never my mom naked with pubic hair. My mom was 19.

I know when I have asked my mom questions and given her sites like the one posted she was clueless about these being early signs of puberty. My mom was pretty smart and progressive on this and sexual issues. But she didn't know or associate peach fuzz with puberity. Thinking in my fuzzy mind I might have had peach fuzz at 9 but didn't get real pubic hair until 12.

We had a girl in my class get her period at 9. My mom made sure I knew because this girl was clueless. My mom was the mom all the girls went to with questions. Actually for her time my grandmother was also.

******************

Now I do want everyone to remember boys develop later than girls. I know someone posted about there twins and the girls starting and the boys are not.

My doctor made me realize this fact this past summer. I had to start my now 7 dd and now 11 ds on deodorant a month apart. There is a 3.5 year different and the doctor told me and gave info and it really opened my eyes that how physically and maybe mentally they match.

[boobybunny]

bump,
My DD is turning 7 in four days. She has fat nipples and hair on her vagina. I am totally freaking out. Called my best friend who is a doc, still freaked out but I know know it is normal, early but normal. He claims it is because of better quality foods and genetics.

So some family history. I started my period at age 10.5, wore a 32 B in the 5th grade. My DD had soy formula from the age of 9 months until about 14 months. We eat a fairly organic diet, meaning I can not afford to do organic butter, but do all organic fruits and veggies.

Moral of the story.

Babies grow up fast. Do everything you can to make their childhood fun, easy and long.

[TiredX2]

Originally Posted by AAK

His conclusion was that most girls would have their first period around 110 pounds. I thought this was a rather odd conclusion, but then started asking around and almost everyone that I know did have their first period when they weighed around 110 pounds (as well as we can remember). Our ages were between 10 and 15 for first period. The friends I know who have children who started early (like 9 and 10) were able to confirm their dds weight to be around 110.

That's really interesting. I remember being weighed in the 7th grade at 107lbs and getting my period later that year.

But, my best friend got her's that summer and she was still under 90. The next month her younger sister got it and she was more in the 130lb range.

Because I was interested, I went and looked at the CDC growth charts, and according to that, the average girl is 110 at right before 14 years. I wonder if BMI would be a more accurate predictor?

[TiredX2]

Originally Posted by Marsupialmom

I have begain to wonder if this starting earlier is actually awareness.

I have read articles asserting this as well.

Apparently, in the past, puberty was not really acknowledged as "occuring" until you truly needed a bra, had your period, etc... So, the age difference of puberty then and puberty now could be, at least partially, due to different definitions.