Been wondering.... - Page 2

[punko5]

Originally Posted by AutumnMama

Well, we had planned on circ'ing our DS, always had...everybody I knew (including my brother and DH) were circ'd. I just thought it was better, the thing to do, etc. I never questioned it at all. Thought it was 'gross' not to.

Because we didn't qualify for Medicaid with the second pregnancy/birth I started looking at alternatives and ended up deciding on a Midwife attended homebirth.
We had an U/S revealing that he was a boy (yay!) and on our next appt the Midwife asked if we had thought about the circ issue. I said that we hadn't really talked about it, but I assumed that we would get him done.
She spoke briefly about it and handed me an article (Fleiss article from Mothering mag.).
I read it in the car on the way home, then proceded to do TONS of research on the internet.

At first I was surprised. Surprised that nobody had told us what the foreskin was for, what it's functions were. I did my research on the long-term effects first, because regardless of what happened briefly to him as an infant didn't seem as important as what he would have to live with for the rest of his life.

So once I figured out that being intact is better iin the long run, I turned my attention to how the procedure was done.

I was shocked at first. Shock quickly turned into absolute horror.
I couldn't believe ANYONE in their right mind could do that to a child. Especially a newborn baby.

I think part of the reason I feel SO strongly about this issue is because a few months after learning all of that I gave birth to my son.
Of course the images of circumcisions I'd seen on the internet were fresh in my mind; every time he cried hard I couldn't help but imagine that if we had had him circ'd he would've cried so much harder. And just thinking of him in that kind of agony would (and still does) make me light-headed and so angry!

So when I think about it being done, I have my recent experience with my baby being a newborn, and a fairly vivid imagination. I can't help but imagine how it must've been for my friends' babies who had to endure a circumcision.

I've always had a soft heart for babies and it is excruciatingly hard to know that this is being done to them with their parent's consent.
Although I put far more blame on the medical community for letting this atrocity continue as long as it has.


So there you have it. Probably far more than you needed, but this is really the first time I've actually written it out, so I kind of needed to get it all out iykwim :

Thanks

When I read your response, my hair stood on end... I think you are one of the few who "did the research" etc.. most americans blindly go into birthing, and parenting with the TV version of reality.. how completely sad.
thanks for posting your story.

[birthdancedoula]

I thought I was having a girl w/ my first (I was wrong) but my awesome midwife gave me a Mothering article on circ "just in case." Then I saw one. That was all the convincing I needed.

[Quirky]

There's a bumper sticker/saying...."Circumcision - the more you learn, the worse it is."

It is a gross and disgusting human rights violation. And I become more outraged every day by it.

[Minky]

An online friend pointed me to a circ debate forum (not this one) when we were ttc #2. I was parental choice at the time and prob would have circed DD had she been a DS.

I folowed a link to mothering this forum and got convinced how important it was to get over my issues and get DH over his so we could leave our baby boy whole and intact.

[Linda in OZ]

There was no way no how my boys were getting done, I guess it was just instinct. I never did any research and didn't give dh any choice in the matter, the doc asked when ds#1 was born if we were getting him done and I actually growled at him and told him to stay the h**l away from my boy. It is a very emotive topic for me and I want to scream at the stupidity of mothers that get their boys cut because they feel they have the right.

[Girl Named Sandoz]

The altering of perfectly healthy genitalia is genital mutilation, whether it is done on a girl or on a boy.

I absolutely believe that the practise should be illegal [for both sexes]. It's a horrific human rights violation without any benefits and is the cause of so much suffering in the world.

[TigerTail]

someone used the word 'perverted'. that about nails it (that circumstraint ad- wouldn't be much of a stretch to call it fetish child porn, would it?)

no, no trauma here other than every important sexual partner in my life having been MUTILATED. (does sore jaw count? ) it's always been a no brainer to me, too.

susan

[Quirky]

Originally Posted by Minky

An online friend pointed me to a circ debate forum (not this one) when we were ttc #2. I was parental choice at the time and prob would have circed DD had she been a DS.

I folowed a link to mothering this forum and got convinced how important it was to get over my issues and get DH over his so we could leave our baby boy whole and intact.

Minky, you rock! I have a tremendous amount of admiration and respect for the growth that you've accomplished.

Originally Posted by suseyblue

no, no trauma here other than every important sexual partner in my life having been MUTILATED. (does sore jaw count?)

[AntoninBeGonin]

Dh did a little studying on his own before we started ttc #1 and he was immediately opposed. After I got pregnant he mentioned a little to me. I'd never thought anything about circumcising either way, but the moment I did think about it I was furiously against it. Unlike most people, I have never once thought it should be parent's choice. As long as it's parent's choice, it will continue to happen. For every one parent who researches before deciding there are multiple others who do it "just because". I'm not trying to be mean, but as long as it's parent's choice, there will continue to be parent's who will make the wrong choice.

And speaking of making the wrong choice, I feel really bad for parents who do read about circumcision, but they are given so much misinformation that they decide to circumcise anyhow. Those poor parents really do try their best, and no one can blame them for doing what they honestly think is right. That's why this madness needs to be illegal. There are too many people who can't be bothered to learn about this, and there are too many people giving misinformation to trusting parents.

Oh, and as for why I feel so strongly--I have a 13 month old son. Everytime I see or learn about another baby's circumcision I think, "That could have been my son." Then I think, "By their circumcising, they are saying my son should also be cut like that." I know that's irrational, but that's how I feel. Very protective of my son, and for me that protectiveness includes all baby boys.

~Nay

[LoveChild421]

Originally Posted by suseyblue

no, no trauma here other than every important sexual partner in my life having been MUTILATED. (does sore jaw count? )

but really at first I just instinctively knew no son of mine would be hurt in any way, I have had intact boyfriends so I knew it wasn't like being intact was unheard of- then I did research and found that not only was it not necessary, but sexually harmful. I watched the video and still cry about it because that's what pops in my mind when I hear about or see a boy who is circ'd. It really breaks my heart- that's why I'm very passionate about it. The thought of circ makes me physically ill- I've had to end friendships over it.

[boingo82]

My 4 brothers are intact..when I first heard about circ I was like,
"They do WHAT?"

Our family had a really big emphasis on personal property and personal space - our belongings were OURS and you always had to get permission to play with someone else's toys. There was no forced hugging - your body was your body and if you didn't want to hug gross uncle Milton you didn't have to.

Even more so we were taught like most kids, that your genitals were YOURS and nobody ever was allowed to so much as look at them without your consent. Let alone touch them.

To hear of people circing their newborns, especially when the reason is "cosmetics" or "tradition" or "hygiene" - I equate that with rape. I do. It is so far outside of anyone's rights to cut into someone else's genitals. It is almost worse than molestation because there is a permanent reminder in the sense of missing pieces, missing sensation.

[KatScarlett]

We did chose to circ our first out of ignorance and lack of information. We were young and didn't know anything about it. When we found out we were having a boy we asked both my OB and the Pediatrician we had decided on and both told us "whatever Dad is the son should be the same" and so on that information alone we decided to do it. He was circ'd but fortunately has what the Dr. has referred to as a "loose cut" which I'm really glad about. I do wish we would have just left him intact but I can't change the past.

When we had child #2 she was a girl, not an issue. When we got PG with #3 they mistakenly told us it was a boy (she wasn't!). So with that pregnancy I did a TON of research on the web, I went to circ debate sites, I read everything I could get my hands on and it totally changed my opinion. I was dead set against it. I told DH I didn't want it done and he wasn't convinced but being the great guy he is he was always willing to read the info I printed out for him. As it turned out it wasn't an issue for #3 and when she did come along if she had actually been a he I'm not sure where DH would have stood on the issue. I don't think he would have gone against my wishes but I also know he wasn't 100% with me at that point.

Between children 3 and 4 I gave DH more and more information and articles and eventually he went on to become as anti-circ as I am. We got PG with #4 and upon finding out that this one was indeed a boy (and they were right this time!) we didn't even discuss circ because we knew we wouldn't even consider it. When #5 turned out to be another boy of course it, once again, wasn't even an issue.

DH has gone on to TRY (with little success sadly) to talk to his brothers and sisters about circ and why not to do it. My SIL has a little boy who is only a few weeks older than my youngest and when I saw her changing his diaper a few weeks ago I got choked up and all I could think was "that poor baby." I mentioned it to DH and he said that he had felt and thought the same thing - so at least we're on the same page with it.

~ Patti
mom of 5

[emdeecee_sierra]

I have to be vehemently opposed because my DH thinks it is the thing to do

I have to be vehemently opposed because my stance on circ is the largest symbol of how enlightened I've become, how my children have awakened me to reality: Around 10 years ago, I planned on going to medical school. Once upon a day working in the hospital, I was called upon to help out in the newborn nursery. My job that day was to hold down all the little baby boys having their circs. Yes, I said HOLD DOWN. Nevermind that they were already STRAPPED into a full-body 'seat' for the circ. Yes, it was horrifying, but for me personally, the most horrifying part of it was my own reaction- I felt bad for the babies because they were crying, but I just thought circ was something that everybody did. I paid close attention to what the doctor did, had him explain each step. That I didn't snap out of it and try to defend those babies is what sickens me the most. HOW could I have been so cold and so completely immersed to the point of drowning in mainstream thinking? Furthermore, how could I have let that happen to my own baby boy? Yet I did. I did ask if I could be present to comfort him, but the doctor refused to allow a parent present, and that alone should have set off alarm bells for me. That will be the last time I fail any of my children. At the time I was not as educated on the matter as I am now, and had deferred that decision to DH to make. I wouldn't have had it done, but I will forever regret that I had such a casual attitude. The idiot doctor botched my DS's circ. THAT'S what finally woke me up. Thankfully it was not anything that was too bad (how can I say that? I had him *circed* ) but that finally got me thinking, "What have we done to our son?!?!"

Other reasons I'm "vehemently opposed": because there is no valid or even slightly logical reason to do it. Because babies are born with foreskins, therefore they belong there. Because I firmly believe that NO ONE has ANY right to alter ANYONE else's body for ANY REASON, including ear piercings, tattoos, you name it. Because circ is a symptom and prime example of the frightening "sheeple" mentality in this country- people do it because people do it. No reason, no questioning, they just do it.

Back when I was pg with #3 and we did not know gender, I called our insurance co to see if they paid for circ. Turns out, yes, they'll pay as part of your hospital stay. But if you decide later (or have a homebirth) and take your baby to the doc later, you have to pay for it. Being under the influence of pg hormones and a good dose of rage that they so nonchalantly pay in full for the barbaric and utterly unnecessary circing of babies, yet fight tooth and nail to not pay a penny toward doula care or homebirth, I asked the poor, stupid, unsuspecting idiot woman on the phone at the insurance co if they would pay for me to have my DAUGHTER circumcised. She was a bit thrown by that. I said, sure, sometimes it is called Female Genital Mutilation, but it is just circumcision- will the company pay for me to have my DAUGHTER circumcised??? You'll pay without question for me to have my son undergo Male Genital Mutilation, why not my daughter, too?? That doesn't seem fair. She didn't have much to say to me

Not that we would or did have our baby circed, I was just fishing for ammo against DH who was insisting that if baby was a boy would be circed like he was and like we had DS. I figured that if (again, not that I would have allowed it!) DH had to cough up $200 or more cash he'd rethink it all. Logic and reason wasn't working for me, so I had to get creative LOL.

[rmzbm]

My first 2 were circ'ed. I did what I thought was best. Next one won't. If anyone calls me "perverted", seek mental help ASAP!! That's a very self righteous attitude to have, did YOU do it "all" right? We all do our best.

[polarbear]

I am primarily opposed to circumcising my son for a very selfish and often overlooked but personally significant reason…


It was not mainly due to body integrity and humans rights issues. (Which all people should enjoy)

It was not mainly due to the loss of the erogenous tissue, and loss of glans sensation. (When I can only dream of what was lost)

It was not for hygiene, health, looks, or locker-room stuff…

It WAS for masturbation.

My biggest disappointment with learning all about what was lost after a circumcision was that I have been burdened by not being able to masturbate without using a lubricant. People say that an uncut penis is higher maintenance, but what about all the time and effort to clean up the lubricant after countless ‘sessions’ starting in my early teens to the present. THAT is my biggest frustration with my status, and my foremost reason for keeping my son intact.

[njeb]

Originally Posted by rmzbm

My first 2 were circ'ed. I did what I thought was best. Next one won't. If anyone calls me "perverted", seek mental help ASAP!! That's a very self righteous attitude to have, did YOU do it "all" right? We all do our best.

We're not talking about people who circ'ed believing that it was the right thing to do, and then found out years later that it wasn't. We're talking about people who frequent circumcision fetish sites, which are so gross that I haven't been able to visit one yet. Some of us are also talking about people who have all the info and facts, yet choose to circ. anyway. As far as I'm concerned, you are just as much a victim of medical deception as your sons are.
We also are not talking about people who circ. for religious reasons. That is a whole other issue, which we're not allowed to talk about here.
I just wanted to clear that up. HTH!

[rmzbm]

Thank you, actually that really does help. =)

[trmpetplaya]

Dh is not so I knew that the medical reasons were bogus (he's never had any problems with it) and then I researched it further which definitely made me vehemently opposed to it! Chopping part of another person's body off without their consent is despicable! I don't judge those who do it out of ignorance or for religious reasons (nor am I equating those two reasons...), but I am definitely guilty of judging those who know what they're doing, have done the research, and do it anyway. And I am very opposed to being judgemental...

love and peace.