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post #21 of 30

Natural Family Planning

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Natural Family Planning Users
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This topic was originally posted in this forum: Alternative and Complementary Medicine
Author Topic: Natural Family Planning Users
sagewinna
Member posted 11-07-2000 04:47 PM
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I thought it would be cool to get some discussion going about NFP... What you like about it, what is challenging for you, what method you use...
Most people I talk to think I'm crazy for not being on the pill. We use the ovulation/ observation method, and abstain from intercourse while I am fertile. It's been wonderful for our communication, and the fertile times are very challenging for me, especially when the "Baby nummies" hit. I love that I am not using artificial means to avoid pregnancy, that nature has such clear signs to follow. I like being in touch with my body.



kellyts@netzero.net
Member posted 11-07-2000 06:32 PM
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Someone once posted a site for NFP and i'm wondering where that is again. I would be interested to start something. Actually we don't use anything but the old heev-ho and it seems to be working fine. But maybe my dh would appreciate a different way. Uugghh- too much info?


Chava
Member posted 11-10-2000 12:20 AM
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Pardon me for asking, but what is the "old heave ho"?


Rainasmama
Member posted 11-10-2000 01:19 PM
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I am totally into getting a discussion on NFP giong here! We have used NFP for about 1 year prior to getting pregnant (on purpose) and have been using it since the birth of my daughter 15 mos ago. My cycles began again just before her birthday, and it has been chalenging trying to figure out my cycle since then. As a result, we have been having a severe lack of sex!(DH hates condoms!) It seems like I am having fertile mucous for like 4 weeks of my 6 week cycle! I have not beeen taking my temp, but I think I might have to start. When Raina wakes up, there is just no way she is going to let me lay around and take my temp before getting out of bed!! Also, with the first few days of fertile(?) mouous it is kind of blood tinged. Does anyone have any ideas about what might be going on with me? How long before your cycles became "normal"?


kellyts@netzero.net
Member posted 11-10-2000 02:52 PM
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Chava,
Haha. Sorry. Tried to come up with a way to say withdrawl but there it is. I'm sure my husband would rather not withdrawl so i'm going to start this NFP. Only for a few months as we are gearing up for # 2.


sagewinna
Member posted 11-11-2000 12:05 PM
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Kelly- You do know that withdrawing is high risk for getting pregnant, right? You can find some books at the library, one that I found good was "The Billings Method", it explains about cervical mucus and how to tell when you are fertile and when you aren't... Helpful info for when you are trying to get pregnant, too...
Rainasmom- I don't know how long it takes to get a "regular" cycle again... Sounds frustrating to have all those fertile signs! I know that blood tinged mucus can be a sign of ovulation... We go to a NFP counseler through the local womens center (Run by a Catholic organization), she answers our questions and helps if there is something unusual. Even if you are not Catholic, you can find an NFP teacher near you at this website: http://www.popepaulvi.com/Fert_Care1.htm



Chava
Member posted 11-11-2000 07:06 PM
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Actually, a friend of mine went to some sort of conference (Sponsored by Planned Parenthood) where they said that withdrawl was *not* a high risk for getting pregnant. I was shocked as that is definately not what we were taught growing up! Apparently, with more mature couples (and yes, this is taking into account the semen that is emitted before ejaculation) the risk of pregnancy if he pulls out is almost nil. This actually fits right in with NFP - the sperm has to reach the cervix and the fertile mucous has to be there for transport through the cervix. Without ejaculation, the sperm can't get through the cervix. Aparently this is being looked at as a viable bc method again, esp. for those who are in established relationships and at the end of their rope as far as viable bc.


kellyts@netzero.net
Member posted 11-12-2000 10:14 AM
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Chava, that's what I heard to. That is the way we did it until they said I could not have children then we just carried on. Then one time I had the strangest feeling afterwards. I expressed my feelings that I thought I was going to get pregnant with that one but my hubby didn't believe me (after all the doctors said). Well, my son is sitting on the dog right now 2 yrs and 9 months later. Ever since then we have used withdrawl. Hmmmmm


sagewinna
Member posted 11-12-2000 10:42 AM
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It may be safe most of the time, but it is my understanding that, while fertile mucous is present, it is very risky. Fertile mucous facilitates the sperm getting to the cervix as well as through. When it is present, you can even get pregnant with the sperm being outside the vagina if the mucous "freeway" is there! The books on NFP that I've read are where I got my info... I know that taking any risk is a personal choice, though, and you want to get pregnant soon anyhow, Kelly... We definitly do not want to get pregnant right now, so we are taking no chances.


MamaMel
Moderator posted 11-12-2000 07:54 PM
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I'm looking into this subject myself now...we have had very little sucess with any of the other methods we have tried. We used condoms for a while, but neither one of us much cared for them (I think I may be allergic). So we basically just stopped using anything and I got pregnant the first time and then unfortunatly miscarried. After that I decided I needed to wait for a while before going through that again, so I started taking the pill and well a couple of months into that I started having problems with it (my period stopped and started 5 times in one month and each time it started again my symptoms were worse) and so I stopped taking that and thus...our son.. And frankly since I gave birth we haven't used anything. So, I don't know if we are just lazy or stupid or what, but mostly I think that it is just that we are always open to the idea of more babies (well, at least I am:-). I guess it's just never been real important for us not to get pregnant! But now I have some alterior motives as I think Iain deserves to have more time with all of our attention (all though I go back and forth on that one too). Either way we figured we would give NFP a shot, at least for a while. I've been nursing Iain for 10 months now and no period yet (here's hoping that's still nursing related and not something else, ya know? Although again, I really don't think I'd mind), but I figure that can't hold out forever so I better start looking into some options. I picked up the book "Your Fertility Signals" By Merryl Winstein. Has anyone read it? Is it any good??


nurtmama
Member posted 11-19-2000 08:54 PM
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Has anyone got the LENS?
Go to birthwithlove.com-
It is a little microscope that looks like lipstick-
YOU LICK IT!
and when you look at your spit if you are fertile it ferns...not fertile no ferns. I was using it to get pregnant then my backpack got stolen...wonder what they thought of that.
anyway it runs about $45.00
It's a cool tool!
cindy
heartland doulas
desmoines


organicmama
Member posted 11-22-2000 12:54 AM
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My husband & I took a NFP class & used it for a few months before the planned pregnancy with our 2nd son. He is 18 months old now & I still haven't cycled! We are ecologically nursing! My cycle returned at about 17 or 18 months with our first son, too. I guess I'm going to have to brush up on my NFP methods soon! Love this thread!


sagewinna
Member posted 11-22-2000 08:43 AM
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I had an appointment with a N.P. for a pap... Boy, did I challenge her! She asked what I use for birth control, and I told her that we do NFP. She looked at me and asked "How does THAT work"? I told her we see a counseler at the womans center, and that I observe cervical mucus and abstain when it is fertile mucus. I also told her I brought my chart if she was interested in looking at it. She just moved on to the next subject! lol THEN I told her I was still BF'ing and she asked me how old my little one was.... I told her "3" and she said "Well, sometimes it's hard to let go, isn't it?". I actually responded articulately about how it's not about that for me, it's about beleiving in child led weaning and that it worked great with my son...
...The I told her I was vegan....



kellyts@netzero.net
Member posted 11-22-2000 09:18 AM
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How funny!!! Man, you would think she would have more of a clue on that stuff. Good for you!
post #22 of 30

Women that know when they're ovulating - How?

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Alternative and Complementary Medicine Archive
women who know when they're ovulating...HOW?




This topic was originally posted in this forum: Alternative and Complementary Medicine
Author Topic: women who know when they're ovulating...HOW?
LaLa
Moderator posted 07-03-2001 02:47 PM
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I haven't started my cycle since dd was born, but I was noticing some changes in my body today, and I was wondering if maybe I'm starting? She's almost 9 months old and exclusively breastfed.
So what signs do you look for to know when you ovulate? (besides body temp?)

I don't know how to check any of that stuff. Hubby is asking for d "c" number 2 and I keep telling him, my body isn't ready yet. Maybe it is

Thanks for your help in advance!

LaLa
www.sleepingbean.com



sagewinna
Member posted 07-03-2001 03:08 PM
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I check for cervial mucus when I use the bathroom. If you wipe towrd your perinial area, if there is fertile mucus present it may feel lubricative/slippery. If there is mucus on the toilet paper, pick it up between your index finger and thumb. If it stretches and reminds you of egg white it is fertile mucus.
There are a lot of good books about NFP. It's great to know what your body is doing!



boobybooby
Member posted 07-03-2001 04:04 PM
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To add a question as well,
when you "see" the mucous does that mean you will ovulate soon, are ovulating, or have already ovualted? Anyone know the general time frame involved that it takes during the entire fertile period start to finish?


StClaire
Member posted 07-03-2001 04:45 PM
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I always know when i'm ovulating, or right around the time.
The first thing i notice is the cervical mucus. After your moontime there will be a few dry days , then the mucus starts slightly and progressively gets more wet and slippery, then the egg white consistancy ...That is the time. I sometimes get a pinching feeling in one of my ovaries, a similar feeling as the early pregnancy twinges.

I have started charting my cycles again, i keep track of the moon phase and make notes about my general moods and my food cravings. It is helpfull to know my own cycle.... I am not trying to get pg, but to prevent it. If you are trying i would make sure you had sex during the "wet times" (which is easier then too )




mamamoon2001
Member posted 07-03-2001 06:23 PM
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I always get a sharp pain in my lower abdomen on one side. So I know the exact moment. Though I havn't had a cycle now for 21 months so I might miss it the first times it happens again.


Mommy2Max
Moderator posted 07-03-2001 08:24 PM
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I highly recommend the book Taking Charge of your Fertility by Toni Weschler. It shows you how to chart your temp, check cervical fluid, and the position of your cervix. It is very easy to do. It is great for when you want to concieve or when you want to avoid pregnancy without having to use birth control!


aussie
Member posted 07-03-2001 10:11 PM
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when my cycles started up again after a couple of yrs bf I had so much mucus I thought I might just slide on out my knickers with the first ovulation! (I had been incredibly dry prior to this)combined with a week of severe left sided lwr abdo pain - it was very clear I was ovulating but hard to pinpiont the actual day/time in that week



missgrl
Moderator posted 07-04-2001 11:43 AM
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I get it all......the mucos, the sharp pains....but most of all my ummmmmm libido skyrockets!!!! My dh will say to me "you're ovulating aren't you?"



aussie
Member posted 07-04-2001 06:18 PM
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oh yeah missgrl! how could I forget that bit?
when my dh asks "am I goodlooking?" I have to answer "depends on what time of the month it is!"


lilyka
Member posted 07-05-2001 04:34 PM
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You can also check the hieght of your cervix. I believe it is soft and low when you are ovulating.
Also you basal body temp (take your temp first thing in the morning -before you pee, before you kiss your honey, befor you nurse the baby if that is possible) will increase by .04*F when you ovulate. You need a special basal thermometer or a digital that does 1/10 of degrees (most only do 2/10). You are done being fertile when your temp has been up for three days in a row.

A good sorce of information is the Couple to Couple League. There web address iss www.ccli.org.



mamaclay
unregistered posted 07-09-2001 11:14 PM
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I read book taking care of your fertility and I was all excited to do the charting even without the temperature (couldnt do it before nursing). I started to check the cervical fluid after I got my period back 2 months ago (ds is 18 months) and according to my chart I got something like 15 days of slippery eggwhite!!!! then it stopped and then I got something that resemble a period and then stopped. Does anyone know if you can REALLY follow FAM while breastfeeding?


lilyka
Member posted 07-10-2001 01:05 PM
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Some people have break through bleeding when they ovulate. If the spotting followed the more fertile mucus then you may have been ovulating. I would recomend taking your temp every morning even though you are nursing and doing the family bed. So long as I am not getting up to get the baby and nurse it doesn't effect my temp. If you do have to get up to nurse your baby, figure out about what time she get uup and set your alarm for before she wakes up and take your temp befor you get her (or on the way if she wakes up early. It won't be as accurate but it will help you gat a feel for it.
Also, really fertile mucus should stretch up to an inch or more. If you don't have enough mucus to do a stretch test, you can get more at the tip of the cervix (don't be sqeemish, the tip of your cervix can tell you a lot about where you are in your cycle)



k'smami
Member posted 07-10-2001 01:26 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by mamaclay:
I read book taking care of your fertility and I was all excited to do the charting even without the temperature (couldnt do it before nursing). I started to check the cervical fluid after I got my period back 2 months ago (ds is 18 months) and according to my chart I got something like 15 days of slippery eggwhite!!!! then it stopped and then I got something that resemble a period and then stopped. Does anyone know if you can REALLY follow FAM while breastfeeding?
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I know what you mean. That's why the temp. is so important. If you ovulated and have waited the appropriate number of days then the slippery eggwhite could simply be your Basic infertile pattern. (Although I don't think so) Anyway chart for a few more cycles and you will see patterns emerge as to how things look and stuff that's when you can trust the method.

P.S. My Ds is 19 months (I've had about 10 cycles and have been charting for about 5). It's worked so far .




mamaclay
unregistered posted 07-14-2001 09:50 PM
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I havent taken the temp. because ds is VERY interested in the thermometer and I just couldnt take it with him trying to grab it, I might try again, he is always the first one to wake up... I will give it another try though.
Thanks!



copslass
Member posted 07-16-2001 08:06 PM
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In addition to the scientific symptoms mentioned here, cervical mucous, height of cervix, mittleschmertz (sp), etc.
I go to the office in a short skirt with no underwear! If a salesman brushes against me, I'm in ecstacy!
Tracy, the would-be-slut once a month,
the rest of the time a prude


mamaclay
unregistered posted 07-17-2001 12:25 AM
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copslass that is great!!!LOLOLOL!
post #23 of 30
Thanks to all for all the info; I'll have to check it out more!
Ultimately, I think all possible health risks aside, I wouldn't feel comfortable with sterlization because, like I said, I would never feel sure that it would be effective! I have heard of so many women who got pg after a tubal, after a vac., of both, and if you are serious enough about not having more children, it just doesn't seem like a very reliable option.
I would not have a tubal, myself; abdominal, internal surgery in a hospital as opposed to external, out patient surgery, hmmm.. not a big decision, imo, lol! Vac. seems so much easier and less risky. But perhaps not!
Sigh.. I guess we will just have to continue being "careful" and wait for menopause
One other thing, OT; I recently read an article on the increase in Drs prescribing the bc pill to women so they can eliminate their period altogether.(something long done to control periods for weddings, honeymoons, vacations, etc, but this is a new trend towards total suppression)
A Dr in the article ACTUALLY stated, "There is no medical reason for women to menstruate." and opined that it was probably healthier for them NOT to! Attitudes like this, imo, are at the root of what is wrong with medical "science" today; assuming that if we can do it, know of no side effects(yet), it is great, even if it flies in the face of nature/common sense.
HMMMM, there may not be any "MEDICAL" reason for women to menstruate, but I strongly suspect there is a "NATURAL" one, or they wouldn't! BTW, I have read the view from some "purists" (In diet and lifestyle) that menstruation, being an elimination of toxins in preparation for a potential conception(a theory I pers. agree with) it will naturally disappear as the body is purified. In other words, if we lived a pure life with no toxins, women would not naturally menstruate monthly, because they wouldn't need to. Sort of like comparring it to a cold or other healing crisis, I suppose. Had never heard anything like that before; interesting, but not sure I buy it. I am aware that toxins make periods heavier, longer and harder in many women, but does that mean what they say?
Perhaps their exp. with lack of menstruation might be due to diet/fewer calories/fats. The claim was that lack of a period does not efect ovulation, also.
Anyway, WAY OT, but interesting (to me Kimberly
post #24 of 30
Alright, so this seems sound. What then, are you ladies doing to prevent another pregnancy? I like NFP, etc., but that's not completely reliable.

Hmmm...I guess dh is off the hook for the snip. But...? Any alternative suggestions?

post #25 of 30
I'm still glad I got my tubal.
post #26 of 30
We use NFP; I kept charts for over 6 yrs, and am very familiar with my cycles, so much so that I don't really bother keeping them anymore. That and the fact that when bf, temps and mucus signs can be unreliable anyway! I go by experience, and usually use protection before ovulation, and none afterwards. (assuming I get a strong indication it has occurred; if not, we use condoms all month.)
There is a stereotype out there that NFP is unrelaible, and I think it is because many associate it with the calendar/rythm method used by many Catholics for so long(and so unsucessfully
NFP, however, relies, not on a calendar, but on carefully monitored signs such as temperature changes linked to hormonal shifts and mucus changes also linked to the woman's cycle of fertility. (in short, your basal temp, taken upon waking at roughly the same time every morning with a basal(more finely calibrated) thermometer rises steadily through ovulation, and once it has remained at a certain level for 3 days or so, this indicated that ovulation(and its 24 hr window for fertilization) has passed.
Also, the mucus becomes progressively more profuse and "stretchy" leading up to and during ovulation(wet days are a no go if you want to avoid pg!)
Now, if you try to take advantage of the post-period/pre-ovulation days(perhaps 5 or so) you are taking a big gamble, as ovulation is hard to predict(as opposed to confirming once in progress or past), and sperm can remain viable in the woman's body for up to 5 day!! Meaning you could have sex 4 days before you ovulated and get pg!!
The strict method, where unprotected intercourse is limited to post ovulation, is as reliable as the pill, according to several estimations I have seen published. (about 98-99%) Also known as the "french method, this approach is, if adhered to, virtually foolproof. The error is entirely human in nature; miscalculations, decisions to take a chance, etc. (this is how I got my second child, lol! Not that I regret it, but I knew I was probably not "safe", and did it anyway. Not a failure of the method, but of my willpower
And my first child was the result of a broken condom on a fertile day, and I knew immediately the odds were very good I was pg as a result! Again, NFP didn't fail.
Considering we have been together for almost 17 yrs, have been using some combination of NFP and other protection for most of that time(15 at least), and have, to date, only 2 children, spaced 7 yrs apart(and the first came 7 yrs after we got together), I'd say NFP has worked very well for us. (I was on the pill for about a yr and hated it; gained 15 lbs, had emotional problems from it, etc. Hated the sponge and spermicides(irriated me), would really hesitiate to get a diaphram from all I've heard(incl. its abortifacient properties). I might consider a cervical cap(but the spermicides you should use with one would still be a problem).
That leaves NFP and (non-spermicide) condoms for us. Or sterilization(which has not been an option up to now, and now still looks like not a good one.) What's a girl to do?
post #27 of 30
Here is the email that came back to me concerning breastfeeding-interesting.........

Elmimp@aol.com wrote:

Hello. I was considering getting some wild yam root for birth control, but am concerned because I am nursing a 5 mo. old . Do you have any information on taking this while nursing?
Sincerly, Emily Meigs

Emily, Many women have used the wild yam while nursing without any problem. The wild yam may aid digestion. The better the mom's digestion the better the milk. Linda


I have yet to have checked out that book, but it sounds really good. I defenatly am going to.
post #28 of 30
I would never ever do that. I do not exactly know what "natural" birth control means; if you mean not introducing any substances into your chemistry, that definitely rules out wild yam for sure! Leaving you with three types of condoms (one of them called "natural"), a diaphragm (yikes! just a personal comment from a never-user) and with the LAM/FAM/NFP. If natural means for you following your body, that would eliminate barriers from the above list. If you want to use a chemical but do not wish to eliminate ovulation, a mini-pill is also progesterone only, and, though not a very effective contraception choice, has far more testing to back it up than wild yam.

Regarding the response you got: "Many women have used the wild yam while nursing without any problem." -- this really is anecdotal. "The wild yam may aid digestion. The better the mom's digestion the better the milk." the "may" here is so weak, and the "the better the better" connection to quality of milk is not established to the best of my knowledge, check Dr Newman's website for that, though.

At any rate should digestion be a problem, I would try something 100% safe like slower eating (now manage this with a 5 m.o.!!) and small frequent portions, before taking any meds including herbs.

Good luck to you in your research.
post #29 of 30
I used Wild Yam throughout my cycle to conceive. I have PCOS and I have conceived twice using Wild Yam with some other herbs. Perhaps it may stop conception in women with normal hormone function (unlike myself), but I would certainly not trust it to do that. It also may have something to do with the dosage. 3300 mg per day is a very large dose (especially to take during nursing) The bottle of Wild Yam I took did not recommend more than I think 1500mg per day. I am with the other gals, Taking charge of your Fertility is the way to go.
Sheri
post #30 of 30
I thought about taking wild yam before dd2 and then got the book "Taking Charge of Your Fertility" and LOVED IT. Great book! All I remember about wild yam (it's been about 3 yr since I looked into this) is that there was no proof that it worked or the amounts one needed to take to have it work to not get pg. So I instead went on "the pill" while I was begging to read "Taking Charge of Your Fertility" and got pg anyways (hee hee) while I was still bf dd1, she was alittle over 2 at the time I got pg. Now dh is "broken" and I don't have to worry about getting pg anymore. But I still practice some of the things in the book. I am now much more aware of my cycle and usually know which day I am ovulating.
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