Correcting a Stranger's Parenting Tactics? - Page 3

[Fuamami]

Originally Posted by Hazelnut

If you truly wanted to help, perhaps you could have helped distract the child,

This is what I would do. My sister's done this for me before, in fact. I was in a huge power struggle with my dd, and she just distracted her, started a conversation about something else, and got the attention off of what we had been fighting about. She's very tactful and it worked great. I've since tried it with a friend of mine who was just having a bad day with her son, and it worked great then, too. In fact, I asked him about something I knew he was good at, which seemed to make his mom feel proud of him, instead of annoyed with him.

I agree it takes a village, but it's just not helpful to tell someone how to do it at a time like that, no matter what your credentials are.

[delicious]

yeah that to distracting the child. seriously, if i am out somewhere and my kids are acting nutso, i'm already annoyed, most likely. someone adding their .02 is just going to make it worse.

maybe this mama was just having a bad day.

[Minky]

I think the best thing you can do is be a good example when you discipline your kids in her presence so she might pick up on some techniques. If you point it out without her asking for advice she is just going to feel judged.

And we do use the time out by the car technique here but i actually follow through on it once I say it.

[luckylady]

You said she (the DD) is well behaved most of the time, so the parents/mother is obviously doing something right. Her child hitting her is probably a sore spot - I know it is with me - and when a person is angry laughter is the best medicine. I know if someone said something to me when I was PO'd I would be pretty ticked off, unless it was a good friend who knew the whole story.

[amyjeans]

Dear OP-
that first post is me to a T. I find mysef shouting/hollering at my dd who honestly can be a beast sometimes and if that were me right there, ANY comments about my behavior would have just fueled my fire that deep down I am desparately trying to put out. God only knows how I would have reacted to you! Might have been ugly.
I know when my dd acts up and gets under my skin, its not the worst thing in the world, and usually can be dealt with accordingly. But sometimes, her nagging for whatever reason really just puts me to my wits end...because so many other factors add stress to me, and her behavior happens to be the icing on the cake.
Does that make sense? Its not her actions that irritate me, its my reactions.
But in the heat of the moment- my mouth gets going and I show my muscles (and claws) trying to win.
Now that I have said that- and I am not flaming mad...what advice would you give this cranky mom aka me?

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by amyjeans

Now that I have said that- and I am not flaming mad...what advice would you give this cranky mom aka me?

The Buddihist monk, Thich Nhat Hanh, wrote a book that helped bring peace to my soul and give me tools to.... PAUSE.....BREATHE......consider my reaction in the heat of the moment, BEFORE reacting automatically and viscerally. He has many books; but "Peace is Every Step" really empowered me to see my explosive reactions as a *learned* coping mechanism that could be *unlearned*. And it offered methods of identifying my underlying feelings and needs to help me take care of my anger (smoldering since childhood). He has a new book called "ANGER". I have only just started it. And it too is powerful and comforting to increasing my awareness, understanding and caretaking (compassion toward mySelf) of my emotional angst at myself for not being as calm as I wish I were and strive to be.

Also, "Kids, Parents and Power Struggles"; "Raising Your Spirited Child"; "How to Talk so Kids will Listen, How to Listen so Kids will Talk"; "Kids Are Worth It! giving your child the gift of inner discipline; "Living Joyfully with Children" are some of my favorites.

HTH, Pat

[ceilydhmama]

what happened to our village?

You know, I find it really sad how few of us are willing to talk to other parents having a tough time. I just don't get it. Maybe it was the way I was raised; within an active and loving community, filled with adults who watched out for each others kids. But I can't stand by while an adult is going off on a child. I think it is a really sad symptom of our society that we are so afraid to lend a compassionate hand.

I completely agree that giving a "Parenting 101" class would be way out of line, but saying something, anything shouldn't be...

I always remember my sister's story about a scenario like this. She was shopping with her young son who was knocking stuff off shelves and acting up like crazy, she lost it and began to yell. The store manager came, gave her son an apple and told my sister to take her time shopping, that she was welcome in his store as long as she needed to be, while she got things under control.

Initially she was embarrased, probably even madder, but she says she still goes out of her way to shop there because the manager cared that she was having a bad day.

[Storm Bride]

That manager sounds lovely. There were definitely a few people who spared ds1 a really bad time with his mom (me) way back when. It was sometimes a little embarrassing, but someone just taking the time to say "oh - it's so frustrating when they do that, isn't it? But, they're so worth it" really helped me put things back in perspective a little and appreciate my wonderful little boy.

[MAMom]

Originally Posted by scubamama

Welllll. I intervene all the time. Drives my poor dh crazy as he just wants to hide. But especially when I see children verbally, emotionally or physically assaulted and from what you described this fits almost all three, imnsho.

I usually diplomatically and with great finesse *empathize* with the parent and suggest a couple of books to "make their life easier". EVERY time, the parent has ended up Thanking me!

I say something along the lines of 'Oh, I see you have a spirited (active, strong minded) daughter, like I do. My friend gave me a couple of books that made my life so much easier. Here are the names of them. Gosh, I don't know what I would have done without them; it can be so frustrating sometimes. I have seen them at the library even.' And I give them a little paper with these two book titles written down:

Kids, Parents and Power Struggles
Raising Your Spirited Child

Btw, they are both empathetic to the child's pov and if any parent reads anything out of either, it is nearly impossible not to be moved to change the dynamic to cooperation and respectful, reflective listening and compassionate problem solving. I highly recommend both.

If I were to witness a child being hit, I would just empatically say "STOP! How can I help, you seem so upset, what can I do to help?" And do the book spiel above. Unless, it appeared to be abuse, then I would call 911 and collect all identifying information possible (car license, make) to provide to the police. I am passionately willing to intervene, because I was that child.

HTH, Pat

I think this is a really great approach - especially being prepared with the book titles. I am personally too confrontational for something like this to come out of my mouth sounding very nice, but it sounds like it works well for scubamama.

I figure if millions of people are willing to take parenting advice from the likes of Nanny 911 & Super Nanny, what harm can it do for you to offer a few GD suggestions to a stuggling mom? If you help one person with your advice/suggestions, and everyone else disregards it, that's one kid (and parent) who's life might be a little happier.

[Mamma Mia]

Personally, I am pretty hardcore GD, but it's not my place to intervene. Perhaps after the moment passed it would be appropriate to bring up similar behaviors in my child and make recommendations. If she was just having a bad day and you give her advice, it's going to come of as pretty patronizing and the tone of your OP with the "everything wrong in the book" shows that perhaps you are kind of being patronizing. I don't mean it as an attack, but I think it's something to look at. I understand the frustration you have, but we all have bad days.

If you're really wanting to give input, maybe bringing up parenting in a more general chit chat sense would help her open up to you. Sometimes comments like, "That age is really tough." are all it takes to open the floodgates of frustration.

[SunRayeMomi]

This was EXACTLY the point of this thread :)

Originally Posted by amyjeans

Dear OP-
that first post is me to a T. I find mysef shouting/hollering at my dd who honestly can be a beast sometimes and if that were me right there, ANY comments about my behavior would have just fueled my fire that deep down I am desparately trying to put out. God only knows how I would have reacted to you! Might have been ugly.

When I posted this thread I had no intentions of ever talking to this mom about her parenting skills (actually, I doubt I'll ever see her again period).

Now that I have said that- and I am not flaming mad...what advice would you give this cranky mom aka me?

My intention: I thought that maybe someone who saw this thread and could relate to the way this mom handled her dd might be able to use some advice given by all the wise mamas here. Hope it helps you, AMYJEANS

I think the tactics this mom used were all failures for mostly one common reason: She didn't follow through.
Discipline isn't going to work if you're just doling out empty threats. I think it may have also helped if instead of just issuing threats, she took a deep breath and knelt down to her daughter's height, looked her straight in the eyes and calmly admitted to her that she (mom) understood why she was uspest, and that mom is upset too and "how can we make this better?" or something similar. (When we as parents are upset about something, is it not fair that we are treated as if our feelings matter? Why then does it sometimes not work the same for children? Because they cannot articulate their feelings as well, they do not count?) Then she could maybe say that she's not mad that dd hit her, she's just sad because it hurt and that "maybe we should take a walk or something since you seem bored?" To teach your child empathy you must model it for them. How can you expect a child to know what is expected of them without showing them first? When we yell at our kids, we prove we are no better at communicating then they are. So where do they learn better skills if we cannot provide the model....? IMO

[sophmama]

I think at times like this opening up a line for her to rant to you about how tough having kids can be would be helpful. It might bring her back to reality a little bit about how she was acting in public and how unreasonable she was being. In situations like that the only thing I might do is if that conversation did lead anywhere to let me say, "you know I read once that if you blah, blah, blah (insert random 'expert' advise here) it might work but I'm not always sure about things I read in books - they can seem so utopian at times. I'm not sure all these experts had kids of their own you know what I mean?" I realize I kind of discredited my own advice by saying that but I think it takes the whole superiority edge off the statement and works like a 'spoon full of sugar to make the medicine go down.'

Other than that I just try to model what I think was the 'better' way when my kid acts up - somewhat within her earshot but not so obvious for it to seem like I was rubbing it in that I think I'm a better mom.

[Fuamami]

Originally Posted by ceilydhmama

You know, I find it really sad how few of us are willing to talk to other parents having a tough time. I just don't get it. Maybe it was the way I was raised; within an active and loving community, filled with adults who watched out for each others kids. But I can't stand by while an adult is going off on a child. I think it is a really sad symptom of our society that we are so afraid to lend a compassionate hand.

I don't think it's as bad as all that. Mothering is a relationship, and a very personal one at that. It's hard to know what's really going on when seeing it from the outside.

That said, I like the manager giving the kid an apple. My dd threw a huge, screaming fit at Lowe's this weekend, and I would have loved it if someone came and distracted her with anything. Parenting advice, however, would not have been the least bit welcome.

[AntoninBeGonin]

Originally Posted by natensarah

I don't think it's as bad as all that. Mothering is a relationship, and a very personal one at that. It's hard to know what's really going on when seeing it from the outside.

That said, I like the manager giving the kid an apple. My dd threw a huge, screaming fit at Lowe's this weekend, and I would have loved it if someone came and distracted her with anything. Parenting advice, however, would not have been the least bit welcome.

I understand what you're saying, but I doubt you'd use the non-GD methods the woman in the original story was using. Therefore, you wouldn't need to be given any advice. There have been many times where I've seen someone using GD methods--no matter how upset the child at the moment--and complimented them on their fine parenting skills. Every single time I have gotten the biggest smiles from people.

I wouldn't try to give little hints of help wrapped in a kind tone of voice and tied with smile of understanding unless the parent was using very hurtful and punitive punishments on the child.

~Nay

[AntoninBeGonin]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

DS1 was a lovely child. He was (and is) good-tempered, intelligent, creative - just a delight to be around. But, he was (and is) also very high-spirited...DS1 went with me everywhere when I wasn't at work. And, sometimes, when he was just being a kid, I'd blow my top and scream at him. Then, I'd feel terrible for screaming at him, and scream at him even more, because feeling like crap made me even more frustrated, and...vicious circle. On a couple of occasions, someone would look at me and say something like "oh, it's tough when they're that age, isn't it?"...and I'd say "yes"...and take a breather, and be okay. And, once a guy screamed at me from his window as we were walking by (I was carrying heavy groceries, and ds1 was dragging his feet and I just couldn't cope...again) that I shouldn't talk to the kid like that. And, I hate to admit it, but I cursed the guy out and then blew up at ds1 again, because I was so mortified about being yelled at and wanted to get home and out of public.

So...that was all beyond embarrassing to admit to. DS1 had a rough time with me sometimes. But, when I got called out over it in public...it was worse. I didn't need more stress. I couldn't handle more stress. And, that guy, despite the fact that his intentions were probably good, just added more heat to an overloaded pressure-cooker. Yes - I was out of line, and being too hard on my son. But, having a stranger butt in didn't make things any better - it just made it worse.

Hi Lisa,

Sorry to hear about the crummy time you had with your ex.

I think I understand your story correctly. You're saying that when your Ds1 was acting up in public and people spoke to you kindly "hey Mama, sorry about your rough day" then you would feel better. But when haywire man went haywire and starting screaming at you, then you blew a fuse and cussed him out. That makes perfect sense to me. Heck, I bet I would have done the same thing LOL. I think you've made a good point though--sometimes Moms need sympathy more than advice. I guess some people are tactful enough and fast-thinking enough to hide bits of advice in sympathy. ( I wish I were more like that! LOL)

Honestly though folks, none of us know everything. We (parents as a whole, not just us on GD forum) should really try and remember to take a deep breath, and maybe even take a moment to listen to the nosy stranger who's just trying to help. They're not there to piss you off, or cause trouble. I seriously doubt anyone would even bother approaching a stranger unless they really cared about kids, YKWIM? It shouldn't be considered an embarassment to accept help once in a while.

~Nay

[SunRayeMomi]

Originally Posted by AntoninBeGonin

It shouldn't be considered an embarassment to accept help once in a while.

~Nay

:
Let's all help ourselves to some humble pie. We may know that GD is the best way to parent for us, but that doesn't mean we know everything

[Hazelnut]

I know what you're saying, but I disagree. How can we not take it personally? Of course we should consider what others (whom we know and trust have our best interest at heart) might say, but it IS personal. We love our kids more than anyone else, we give give give, and it's hard feel like your parenting is being judged because they disagree with something.

I think few people would think of correcting a grown man for doing something stupid but everyone's got an opinion on parenting. Of course, it's different when children's safety or self-estem is on the line, but that's not always the case, and the idea of telling moms how to parent (be it society, strangers, or other moms) is often done when the kid's safety is irrelevant and is more about judging her parenting tactics, imo. I'm not saying we can never feel that judgment, I just think we should grant some moms more respect than they get.

I've only been "advised" by my mother an mother-in-law, and I can say it drove me apeshit, considering that I have firsthand knowledge of their glaring flaws. I have been "helped" twice by women in public when my son was acting up, once when he was sort of tantruming and I had my baby in a carseat as well. Neither offered advice (well I wasn't yelling or anything, but I'm sure someone could come up with something wrong, I'm sure plenty of people would think I was being too permissive just sitting there trying to help him calm down) and I appreciated their help immensely. One of them still seemed more condescending than helpful though, because he wasn't really acting up and neither was I. Do you eat humble pie when people say you're spoiling your child by holding him so much or some such?

[SunRayeMomi]

Originally Posted by Hazelnut

Do you eat humble pie when people say you're spoiling your child by holding him so much or some such?

I think you are taking this thread too personally. It's a totally hypothetical conversation. I respect that you disagree with some of the things mentioned and discussed here. I do too. I also agree with some of them. I'm not going to pick at them or take them too literal either though. I already admitted that I don't have the guts to offer parental advice to a stranger. So these situations have turned hypothetical for me. KWIM?

[WuWei]

I believe that one of the main reasons that I choose to parent unconditionally without use of rewards or punishments is precisely so that our son is not indoctrinated to be emotionally dependent on the external motivations and external judgement of others about his behavior except as it affects them. So, basically, others thinking I "spoil" our son is as irrelevant to me as whether anyone ever eats a piece of pumpkin pie. "Their" opinion (MIL, strangers, others here), since my behavior doesn't affect them, doesn't matter more than a hill of beans to me. I might thank them for their concern and ask where the diaper isle is.

And I believe that by helping our son to observe how and when his behavior *does* affect others, myself included, and recognizng other's reactions, he is more attuned to relevant external feedback. Instead of desensitized or overly sensitized to every external judgement that he encounters from arbitrary praise and shame that every Tom, Dick and Juanita might scowl at me in public places or from MILs.

In relation to this thread, I think that I contribute supportive resources to parents *when* the child appears to be negatively affected, not because *my* opinion is more valid than the parent's. But the child's opinion about how their parent's behavior *is* affecting them is relevant and valid. I am willing to advocate on the side of the disempowered individual in the parent/child dynamic by empathizing and offering support toward a more cooperative relationship.

Just my $0.02

Pat

[Hazelnut]

Originally Posted by SunRayeMomi

I think you are taking this thread too personally. It's a totally hypothetical conversation. I respect that you disagree with some of the things mentioned and discussed here. I do too. I also agree with some of them. I'm not going to pick at them or take them too literal either though. I already admitted that I don't have the guts to offer parental advice to a stranger. So these situations have turned hypothetical for me. KWIM?

Huh? Of course it's somewhat personal- I'm a mom, I feel strongly that moms are judged too harshly and I'm expressing that opinions wrt to "hypothetical" situations, which are often real, for many of us. I don't think I'm "picking anything apart," or taking things "too" personally, which sounds rather negative, just because I'm looking closely at our intentions behind correcting mothers. I haven't been offered advice myself, as I said, so it's not like I'm getting all personal and defensive. You suggested that people humbly listen to advice, and I'm just saying that I doubt we do ourselves, when we think it's wrong.