Feeling unsupported at MDC

[Heavenly]

Ruthla wrote on the VBAC failure thread "I agree that CBAC shouldn't be considered a "VBAC Failure." Sometimes you do all you can to facilitate a VBAC and it just doesn't work out, or complications arise that make a surgical birth the safest option for both mother and baby(ies.) I would hate for a woman to feel unsupported at MDC because she was unable to have a vaginal birth." and I wanted to respond.

Yes I personally do feel unsupported on MDC because of my c-sections, especially my failed VBAC. I know many other women feel this way too. How many times has a person posted a c-section story and other people have picked it apart saying what the person should have done differently to avoid a c-section? One person was actually ignorant enough to say in response to a thread about planning a VBAC that if the person had planned a homebirth for their first they wouldn't be in this position. The arrogance! Yes I do get the impression that many women on here think they are better educated or stronger women than the ones who ended up with c-sections. As if we are just stupid and roll over and do whatever an OB tells us. And heaven forbid anyone on here ever claim their c-section was needed! People jump all over that just to make the person fell like sh!t and convince them why it wasn't really needed. It seems to me that it makes a lot of people feel better about themselves to convince themselves that they ended up with the perfect birth due to their education and womanly prowess and that those of us who ended up with c-sections didn't try hard enough. I am always reminded of the saying, "there but for the grace of God go I." I am sorry to sound so bitter but I know I speak for a lot of women on here (and I will understand if they do not want to speak up) when I say - Hell yeah we feel unsupported!

[ChattyCat]

I completely agree with you.

I feel like I constantly have to justify why my csec was needed, and why after researching VBAC for 20 months now, I am choosing to have my next child by csec. It's very frustrating. I took my Bradley classes, and read everything I could, and hired an awesome doula, and practiced relaxation EVERY SINGLE DAY for 4 MONTHS! I labored for days (after prodromal labor with contractions 3min apart for weeks). I tried umpteen frigging positions. None of it mattered. Birthing in my house or the woods or anywhere else wouldn't have prevented my csec.

It's really frustrating. I didn't choose this outcome. I didn't ask for it. It's not that I didn't try hard enough. It's not that I didn't want it badly enough. But, life frequently doesn't work out the way we plan.

I think it's unfortunate. Many people come to MDC for one aspect. Perhaps bfing support or they're interested in CDing. They then branch out to learn more about AP and NFL. We should all try hard to not be judgemental of those who are here. These are the people trying to learn, to be better. We are all doing the best we can. We are the ones who are educating ourselves about alternative options. We aren't listening to everything our DRs say, while we sit on the edge of our seats. I think if we could all be a little more understanding of others here and realize that not everyone here is a diehard, committed NFL APer, then we could all stand to learn a lot from each other.

[AngelaB]

Hi Heavenly,
I just wanted to say that I support you and the others who tried for a vbac and things just didnt go as planned.

I had a successful vbac, however I never would have been able to do it without dh. Literaly I could not have done it without him telling off the nasty nurses and being my advocate. I had 40 hours of hard labor and 2 of which were pushing. There was a time when dh was sleeping and I was planning on how to sneak away and get a cab to the hospital to get some drugs. Thankfully he woke up and my plan was foiled.

With my vbac it seemed like the whole plan was holding together by a very thin thread. I can think of several times when we almost got sucked into the "dead baby" scare and the the "health of the baby" tactics and I bought into it and had to be reminded by dh that I made a sound decision and that now was not the time for me to stand up for myself I needed to have the baby and he could fight the battles. There was no evidence that anything was wrong with babe.
So he took my hand and we went home. I WAS NOT IN THE STATE OF MIND TO STICK IT OUT ALONE. I WOULD HAVE FAILED BUT I GOT LUCKY!!!!

Truly lucky nothing else. Yeah I was educated but it was not all easy and alot hung in the balances. Im not one of those people to brood about my c-sec either. Im not one to bag on others who have one. When I hear of someone having a c/s or a birth that wasnt what they wanted I just feel sympathy since I know how hard it is. I will tell them my opinion and what I would do different but thats it. Im not one to homebirth either. I will be going 2 hours to a birth center but one of the main reasons is because they take the medical card! I dont want dh to be gone working a bunch to pay for the birth. I want him home with me and the kiddos.

Anyways I got longwinded but just know that I wish things could have worked out for you I know it must be so disapointing, but you tried and that alone takes guts. You went against the flow and you can try again as long as your not done havin babies!
I hope you feel better and you do have a friend here that have had succesful vbac. I just got lucky!

[Sagesgirl]

I don't open myself up to criticism on this site, but I know exactly what you're saying. I've seen it time & again. There is little respect for women who don't make the "right" choice, which seems to be VBAC no matter what, risks be damned. Physician threatens to end your care? Well, just go UC! Can't find a licensed midwife? Go with an unlicensed one, nevermind if you can't verify her nonexistent credentials. Feel uncomfortable with the risks? They're all imaginary anyway!

Of course, Mothering has long had a position of being VBAC supportive. And that's great. I don't think there is another parenting site on the Internet I could go to and find people supportive of my desire for a VBA2C, and throwing in the UC aspect pretty much clinches it. I am very appreciative of that aspect of this site. But it is saddening to see women's choices picked apart. Anyone who has ever been in labor ought to know how vulnerable you are during childbirth, and to assail a woman for going along with what she's told is the best course for her & her child is just insane. It's one thing if a woman asks "What could I have done differently?" and another completely if she just posts looking for support.

[MaryLang]

I as one of those people that studied here before my Vbac attempt can respect both sides mine was a "failed vbac", but I am considering it again. I do see this forum as VBAC all the way group, but that is because it is the Bbac forum. And having had c/s's we are in the minority when it comes to childbirth. And it is true that a lot of the women here have had beautiful births and I am happy for them and am trying to accept that I can only fantasize about what so many women take for granted. A vbac is so important in the mind s of the women that do dream about a vaginal birth, and they are excited about it, to the point that it can come across as zealous, but I really don't blame them. And I love hearing success stories, while only wishing I could have joined them. Well, I guess my whole point is that this is the vbac forum, and there is a great c-section support thread in the general "birth and beyond" area, which will be much more supportive to your needs at this point. I think what would really help us heal is if society saw c/s as the "real" birth that it is, and not just a surgery, but that of course is wishful thinking.

[MommytoTwo]

I agree 100% although I have to say I expereinced that more on another vbac board I was on than MDC but I definitely agree.

[MommytoTwo]

society saw c/s as the "real" birth that it is, and not just a surgery

I dont mean to hijack but I just have to say, a friend of mine had a c/s and instead of saying "After I delivered" or "after I gave birth" or "After I had him" she says "After they c-sectioned me" ... (which of course is not a word but thats not the point) it makes me so mad. Whenever she says that I correct her and say, "You mean after you gave birth" ....

[TripMom]

Originally Posted by Heavenly

And heaven forbid anyone on here ever claim their c-section was needed! People jump all over that just to make the person fell like sh!t and convince them why it wasn't really needed.

Hi Momma -- Tripmom speaking up. I'm with you -- and here is my claim -- my c-section "was needed". I'd like to hear from anybody with a preponderance of evidence and examples that delivering triplets does not require a c-section?

BTW -- apologies if this thread gets taken down. I see people post criticisms and stuff - and there is a healthy dialogue that goes on. But somehow whenever I jump in on these threads - within a few posts the whole thing gets "removed for review"? So sorry in advance if my presence kills your thread . . . .

[Mom2baldie]

Heavenly,

Oh my gosh I completely agree with you. I would love to post support and encouragement more on the MDC birth boards, but I can hardly stand to read the birth threads because of the arrogance and ignorance of those who are SO judgemental.

I have had 2 VBACs, but it was not because I am so much more educated and made all the "right" choices, in fact I only "achieved" the 1st VBAC by the skin of my teeth. I think that luck had a lot to do with it.

I hope that your next birth goes the way you want and that when you look back on the day you will smile.

respectfully,

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by MommytoTwo

I dont mean to hijack but I just have to say, a friend of mine had a c/s and instead of saying "After I delivered" or "after I gave birth" or "After I had him" she says "After they c-sectioned me" ... (which of course is not a word but thats not the point) it makes me so mad. Whenever she says that I correct her and say, "You mean after you gave birth" ....

No - she means the day she was c-sectioned. Trying to make her feel as though she gave birth when she doesn't feel that way is no more fair than someone trying to make you feel that you didn't. I hate it when people say I gave birth to my babies. I hate it more than I can say.

Heavenly: I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm just glad this forum is here. When I first went looking for c-section support forums, I found a few where people were talking about how wonderful sections were and how glad they were that they didn't have the pain of birth. I wanted to smash my computer. I hope you can find people who support you in the decisions you've made. Good luck!

[TurboClaudia]

many hugs to all you mamas, regardless of how you gave birth to your babies.

although i have not experienced a cesarean birth, i have observed some arrogant commenting on threads where support is clearly warranted and not examination of the poster's choices. although it may be "extra work" on the part of the original poster, i have wondered whether being overtly deliberate and clear about requesting support would be helpful. something like a disclaimer in the post "please post support only. i am not in a place where i can second guess my choices and i would ask that you respect those choices and not suggest that i replay my past."

i have felt unsupported at times here at mdc, and have had to remove myself from certain forums or threads for my own sanity. i am grateful to have family and friends to get that necessary support from, but i feel for those women who are isolated (in physical distance or in some other emotional or mental way) and cannot find that support in real life. the anonymous nature of an online community does allow for lots of misinterpretation, but for the most part, i think the benefits far outweigh this misinterpretation problem.

again, sending you

warmly,
claudia

[dynamicdoula]

Originally Posted by MommytoTwo

"After they c-sectioned me" ... (which of course is not a word but thats not the point) it makes me so mad. Whenever she says that I correct her and say, "You mean after you gave birth" ....

Can I offer that instead of telling her what her truth is, maybe be open to hearing her tell it? Maybe she truly feels like she did not give birth, that someone 'did it' for her. Maybe her words are an accurate depiction of her feelings. Is that something you can live with? If you can listen to her tell her story without correcting it, she may feel safe enough to reframe some of it down the road.

If I was telling my birth story and someone was correcting my language, I would just stop talking. I would assume they weren't listening to ME, they were listening to tell me what I did wrong, what i'm saying or thinking wrong, and who needs that?

I hear your intention... but don't take her birth away from her by forcing your words for it, if that makes sense. For YOU, it was her birth. For HER, it was not something she did, it was done to her.

Sometimes the wisest thing that can come out of our mouth is, "Tell me more about that." Sometimes it's saying nothing.

Yes I personally do feel unsupported on MDC because of my c-sections, especially my failed VBAC. I know many other women feel this way too. How many times has a person posted a c-section story and other people have picked it apart saying what the person should have done differently to avoid a c-section?

I want to offer that no matter where you go, no matter what the topic- there are going to be die-hard people who see the world one way, who even with the best of intentions, will see you in black and white. The trick is believing that their intention is good, even if they are bumbling the delivery. Save yourself the strife- clearly state what you need when you post about your birth. "Critical comments are not welcome." "Support only, please." I would lay down money that if you told the readers what you were looking for by posting, you'd get what you needed. Support? Validation? A listening ear? A place to vent? Absolutely. Some women want to post their stories and actually ASK, "What could I have done differently?" They are stating their need/intention off the bat, too. I can also say that I always assume the readers of my posts are coming from a place of compassion, and that helps me to not feel attacked, even when i am sensitive.

[Treasuremapper]

Heavenly, you are so right. The whole superior birth story grates on me, too.

I'm so glad that they had wonderful, beautiful birth experiences. All mamas deserve that for their babies.

But some of us didn't, and it doesn't mean that we necessarily dropped the ball in our preparations.

It is annoying, it is insensitive, but some people are insecure enough that they have to show how their superior parenting triumphed over other mothers. If it isn't the birth, it's gonna be the fact their kid walked earlier or slept in her own bed earlier or whatever. That's just the way some people are... endlessly competitive, and they can't stop themselves from those feelings.

What is unfortunate is when they can't stop themselves from expressing those feelings.

[Bleu]

I agree. The pointed Monday-morning quarterbacking is obnoxious.

[MrsMoe]

Sorry some of you feel unsupported, while I haven't had a c-section, I can understand where it is you are comming from

[Sagesgirl]

Why on Earth should it be assumed that support is not what is wanted? Shouldn't respect be the default reaction to any thread? I mean that there must be a special "support only" thread every month for c-sections makes it obvious what the usual reaction should be. Why should women have to stick to only one thread or risk being attacked? Why have members gone unsupported here so very often that they had to create their own thread to not be attacked?

[dynamicdoula]

Why on Earth should it be assumed that support is not what is wanted?

I try not to assume. I check in a lot, and I ask. Did you want support, or feedback, or both?

We are all coming from our own experience, our own values.. to assume that someone wants something is just a projection of what YOU would want in her shoes. If you don't know for sure, don't assume- just ask. It takes a second and you can post on from there, knowing that the person is getting what they need.

For many, MANY women, who are sooo deeply passionate, they feel that the BEST support they can give is to inform! Hasn't anyone here felt that? Are we all so skilled at compassion that we never get it wrong or bumble it? Have any of us has a sister or friend who is pregnant who we just couldn't help ourselves but talk up the benefits of breastfeeding/co-sleeping/whatever? I know I've done it. I am trying to support her, by giving information, by sharing my experience- my intention is support. But is it truly being supportive? Probably not, unless she asked for the information.

How many of us have 'supported' a mama in our lives who bottle fed by trying to show her that she could increase her milk supply, or cup feed, or whatever- and not because she's asked for the info, but because we assume she's unhappy about bottlefeeding?

Support has many faces. It is up to us to get our needs met and say, "I need empathy, please no critiques of my experience."

I guess my point is this: I can bang my head against the wall because what I'm being offered isn't meeting my needs, or I can ask for something specific.

My hope is that we can see the good intentions behind the fuddled-up delivery, and be responsible for ourselves- getting our needs met. I'm sure not perfect at it but i'm working on it!

[stafl]

I so understand what you are saying, even though my vbac turned out exactly as I hoped it would. I know good and well that it very easily might not have. I know good and well after what happened with the birth of my first daughter, that no amount of education, reading all the right books, making all the right plans, even choosing the right care provider, is any guarantee you won't have a bad experience. And I know that even though your experience may not have been what you planned, it might not be so bad for you as mine was for me, or it might have been ten times worse! It really hurts when someone who has never BTDT tells you what they think you should have done, or what they think you did wrong. Just keep telling yourself they don't know anything about it. Treat them the same way you would treat a pediatrician who is telling you about formula feeding, he just doesn't know anything about breastfeeding, so what he has to say really doesn't matter, does it?

I really really hope nothing I have ever said to you hurt your feelings in any way, I never intended it to.

[stafl]

Originally Posted by Sagesgirl

Why on Earth should it be assumed that support is not what is wanted? Shouldn't respect be the default reaction to any thread? I mean that there must be a special "support only" thread every month for c-sections makes it obvious what the usual reaction should be. Why should women have to stick to only one thread or risk being attacked? Why have members gone unsupported here so very often that they had to create their own thread to not be attacked?

this is an entirely different subject altogether, and perhaps deserving of its own thread, as I really want to reply, but not derail Heavenly's thread here.

[Cullens_Girl]

Originally Posted by Heavenly

Ruthla wrote on the VBAC failure thread "I agree that CBAC shouldn't be considered a "VBAC Failure." Sometimes you do all you can to facilitate a VBAC and it just doesn't work out, or complications arise that make a surgical birth the safest option for both mother and baby(ies.) I would hate for a woman to feel unsupported at MDC because she was unable to have a vaginal birth." and I wanted to respond.

Yes I personally do feel unsupported on MDC because of my c-sections, especially my failed VBAC. I know many other women feel this way too. How many times has a person posted a c-section story and other people have picked it apart saying what the person should have done differently to avoid a c-section? One person was actually ignorant enough to say in response to a thread about planning a VBAC that if the person had planned a homebirth for their first they wouldn't be in this position. The arrogance! Yes I do get the impression that many women on here think they are better educated or stronger women than the ones who ended up with c-sections. As if we are just stupid and roll over and do whatever an OB tells us. And heaven forbid anyone on here ever claim their c-section was needed! People jump all over that just to make the person fell like sh!t and convince them why it wasn't really needed. It seems to me that it makes a lot of people feel better about themselves to convince themselves that they ended up with the perfect birth due to their education and womanly prowess and that those of us who ended up with c-sections didn't try hard enough. I am always reminded of the saying, "there but for the grace of God go I." I am sorry to sound so bitter but I know I speak for a lot of women on here (and I will understand if they do not want to speak up) when I say - Hell yeah we feel unsupported!