Should we vax at 2 mo appt???? - Page 4

[joyfulone]

I do want to talk to my husband about cancelling the appointment we made for 2 weeks from now. I agree with the fact that there is no way that we could completely research everything we need to research in just 2 short weeks. And I know myself- I'd wimp-out if the Dr. appears to know more than me, and I'd want to trust her judgement rather than my own, and my husband just wants to go along with what I want, it seems.

I like the advice of researching all the diseases and that maybe that could help me get to a place where I would begin to see that there are ways to try and treat the diseases if they were ever contracted, which would be alot better than having to try and treat/deal with a potential reaction dd could have to a vaccine, instead. I really don't know anything about those diseases, and so it would be incredibly helpful to know what it is that I've been actually "fearing."

I agree that I'm letting the "fear" get the most of me. I don't want to agree to have her vax'd based on fear. Just as scriptures say, "the Lord does not give us a spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a sound mind." I need to get that sound mind in gear, and education can help, as well as praying for more confidence and strength in following what my gut is telling me.

I've always been a really sweet wishy-washy kind of person at times, and even my dad and husband have said I've been like a doormat at times, not trusting my own judgement and letting others walk all over me. But now I'm responsible for the health and wellbeing of my sweet little helpless daughter, and I can't just give-in to what other people (like the ped) think is best, then discrediting what I think is best for my own little girl. It comes down to that I just don't trust my own judgement and gut instinct, and I have a really hard time standing up for what I believe in. But I can't be that way at the expense of my dd.

I know, Dallas, that my messages on the 1st and 2nd days may seem confusing or conflictual, but that's because I have been feeling so confused and so conflicted in my heart and mind that obviously my postings are going to appear that way, too. I hope you were posting your post with sincerity in trying to help me see the confusion in my messages- not to suggest I'm "troll"-like or something, as happened earlier on the board. I'm trying to sort my thoughts and concerns out and that's why I'm grateful there's a place like this where I can talk with others and hear their stories and advice as I try to come to a resolve about all this.

I'm not used to asking for help and so it's hard to be vulnerable and ask about these things on here, even though I can do it pretty anonymously in a way- it's still difficult for me to do. And I appreciate the support people have offered me on here, and now I have a lot of ideas about how I want to proceed next as I begin my research on everything.

joy

[Sherra]

Joy,

You sound like you are on your way! Now that we know you, it'll be less painful I promise when asking questions /hugs It also gets easier after your first thread in terms of sharing and asking questions...getting to know the people here.

That vaccine guide I mentioned to you breaks down every disease..it's really conveniently done.


Take care and keep us posted with any questions you may have. I know it makes it doubly hard when the hubby relies on you to make the decision. It drove me nuts..but then when reading from others how the husband fights the decision, I've come to be happier for my case to happen the way it did.

[DevaMajka]

Also, I really recommend the cdc's Pink Book (Epidemiology & Prevention of Vaccine Preventable Diseases Textbook) chapters on the specific diseases.
Go here http://www.cdc.gov/nip/menus/diseases.htm and look for Pink Book in each section.

Of everything that I read about HIB, the Pink book chapter made me most comfortable about not getting anymore vaxes for it (ds had already gotten 3 by the time I questioned vaxes)

HTH

[dallaschildren]

Joyful,

I am glad to see you come back and post. I as many others, were/are in the same place you are now. The feelings are overwhelming and I remember many times breaking down and sobbing because I did not know in my heart that I was doing the right thing by stopping all vaccinations for my children. I would be a lying hypocrite if I were to tell you that I still do not feel that creeping "what if" crap, still to this day. The power that the mainstream medical establishment has on the average joe is astounding.
I am not an expert nor claim to be. The journey of knowledge is without an end. I learn new things every day as will you if you are open to learning, and you make a conscious decision to continue learning. It is my job as these children's mother, to not only be educated about the choices I make for them, but to feel at peace with myself for making them no matter what the outcome. For me, success and empowerment means that I could go head to head with any physician and defend my choice to stop vaccinations without being beaten down. I did so just a few months ago. And I consider it to be one of the most powerful moments next to childbirth, that I have ever experienced. You will get there. However you decide to make the journey, you will. There's no timetable. As much as the doctor will lead you to believe there is one. As many of the mama's have said here....you can't take it back once it's given.
Anyhow...that's my two cents for now. It will take you awhile, but if you begin to browse and read the stickies at the top, it will lead you to a wealth of information. Read a little at a time.
Peace.
DC

[mammastar2]

Hey there,

About your question about eating organic and doing other stuff to boost her immune system - by all means do those things if you want to do them because they're good for her, period. But my own view is that if you think vaccination may itself be harmful to your child's immune system, then you don't need to do things to 'compensate' for not vaccinating: does that make any sense to you? That is, by not vaccinating my daughter, I'm already doing something good for her system, so I don't need to 'fix' it by doing something else to boost it.

I still get anxious twinges sometimes, so I understand your concerns. My daughter is 4 now, though, and bursting with good health, so I'm feeling pretty comfortable with my choices.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Joyfulone, even though, I amongst the others did suspect you of being a troll, but gave you the benefit of the doubt, I'm reassured today, that you are honestly looking for information, and am glad that you've come back and are thinking the issues through, so lets talk about some areas and the "whys" of them...

Originally Posted by joyfulone

I do want to talk to my husband about cancelling the appointment we made for 2 weeks from now. I agree with the fact that there is no way that we could completely research everything we need to research in just 2 short weeks.

You can't. It's such a big subject.

And I know myself- I'd wimp-out if the Dr. appears to know more than me, and I'd want to trust her judgement rather than my own, and my husband just wants to go along with what I want, it seems.

You could only trust your doctor, if you knew she had the accuracy of God. Unfortunately, it is the experience of most of us here, that doctors fall far short of even the worst Biblical prophets. Therefore, you have to check out everything. In terms of your husband, you will have to gradually inform him, because the "system" has a knack of divide and rule, and taking fathers to one side and trying to pit them against wives. So if he doesn't understand why you are doing what you are doing *whatever that is * and agree with it, there will be a weak link that the paediatrician or the system can use as a lever between both of you.

I like the advice of researching all the diseases and that maybe that could help me get to a place where I would begin to see that there are ways to try and treat the diseases if they were ever contracted, which would be alot better than having to try and treat/deal with a potential reaction dd could have to a vaccine, instead.

This is the best way. And there are many ways of doing that. If you learn to use the search system here, that will be one way, but the disadvantage of this system is that there is so much "dross" here that to get to the nuts and bolts of the issue takes some time.

I'd love to see a different system here, but Mothering is mothering, and of course if I made a suggestion the rebound of that would be that it would take work, and I wouldn't volunteer to do it (not that Mothering would have me anyway....) so there is no point in suggesting something better.

This board has some great minds on it though, and for the first time in many years, I see the potential for it to be really useful. If the forum was different... that is...

I really don't know anything about those diseases, and so it would be incredibly helpful to know what it is that I've been actually "fearing."

One of the best ways is to get an OLD medical text at a second book shop. The reason for "old" is that in the days when there were fewer pied pipers of paranoia, the medical profession wrote about diseases in the way that they really were, as opposed to the way they want us to get scared about. The statistics were quite different back then. NOW they would say that that's becuase they didn't know what they were doing back then . A bit pathetic. But then, I'd say that in a sense, they still don't know what they are doing, so what's new?

But at least the older texts give more rational descriptions less studded with dramatic paranoid language to make you think that even the common cold could keel you over in 10 seconds flat.

I agree that I'm letting the "fear" get the most of me. I don't want to agree to have her vax'd based on fear. Just as scriptures say, "the Lord does not give us a spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a sound mind." I need to get that sound mind in gear, and education can help, as well as praying for more confidence and strength in following what my gut is telling me.

It will come. You know that verse that says that the Holy Spirit will lead us into ALL TRUTH... the sort of truth whereby...

Psalm 118 : 8 "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."

Some other verses for you to look up. Hosea 4 : 6; Isaiah 5 : 13; 2 Timothy 2 : 15, Mark 11 : 24; Proberbs 4 : 20 - 22, ... Oh many others. But I don't want to derail other thinking processes. You can PM me if you want to continue this part with me, but don't forget this one . Luke 18 : 27.

I've always been a really sweet wishy-washy kind of person at times,

Well, take heart, because so was Moses. And he had a stutter. And look what God did to him. Gave him a blow-dry (life in the desert after he murdered some soldiers) and a make over (in front of the burning bush) and a kick up the rear end ("Now you go and have a chat to Pharoah my boy") and when he wimped and grizzled about his stutter God said "Well, what do you think Joshua will be going with you for?". He accepted no excuses and that wimp called Moses ended up majorly kicking ASS with God on his side.

God did the same to me, and can do the same to you.

and even my dad and husband have said I've been like a doormat at times, not trusting my own judgement and letting others walk all over me. But now I'm responsible for the health and wellbeing of my sweet little helpless daughter, and I can't just give-in to what other people (like the ped) think is best, then discrediting what I think is best for my own little girl.

You know what? Rabbits are wimps, and will keel over and allow stoats to knock'em over, except when they have babies. That's when they learn to fight back.

Join the club.

It comes down to that I just don't trust my own judgement and gut instinct, and I have a really hard time standing up for what I believe in. But I can't be that way at the expense of my dd.

But you can trust your own judgement, particularly if that's shored up by the confidence that the Holy Spirit will give you. If you do the homework, and walk close to God, you don't need to worry about what to say. For as Isaiah 26:3 says "I will keep you in perfect peace if your mind is stayed on me..... And there is another, but I can't recall what the reference is about where God say something like "Take no heed as to what you should say, for come the time and the Holy Spirit will prompt you with the right words."

I find that is the case for me. Whenever I do a public talk, or go on television, I go to the toilet and have a quiet time, becuase my knees rattle like a bamboo wind clatterer... and I find the minute I step up to the podium or face the camera, the brain clears and it all just tumbles out. Part of me stands back and goes "wow..." and its not me. It's God. Not long ago, I did an interview which lasted 1 hour 40 minutes. My husband was part of it, and he said afterwards.... "I just don't know how you do it; I couldn't." I said to him "I didn't. I just did the homework, and God picks it up from my brain and puts it all together."

I know, Dallas, that my messages on the 1st and 2nd days may seem confusing or conflictual, but that's because I have been feeling so confused and so conflicted in my heart and mind that obviously my postings are going to appear that way, too. I hope you were posting your post with sincerity in trying to help me see the confusion in my messages- not to suggest I'm "troll"-like or something, as happened earlier on the board.

Well... we aren't supposed to talk about each other, but since Dallas and I are now getting on much better, I don't think she'll mind. When she came here, she got stuck into me. Um.... I majorly got stuck into her back, which earned me a month's suspension sometimes everyone's arrival here can cause interesting ructions. It's a bit like putting a marble onto a pile. The whole pile sort of shifts and grates, and everyone takes a while to settle down.

So just don't take it personally. Sometimes discussing things here hones the brain very well and is good preparation for the big wide world. You're on your way to proving you're not a troll, and at the same time, maybe you will become a joyfulmoses. Stick with us, take the gibes, learn to tack, (okay, mixed metaphors, but tough!!! ) and then your doctor will seem to you to be chickenfeed

I'm trying to sort my thoughts and concerns out and that's why I'm grateful there's a place like this where I can talk with others and hear their stories and advice as I try to come to a resolve about all this.

Okay, cancel the appointment, start using search, ask us specific questions and when you get a headache, use a rolling pin on the frontal lobotomy. Works for me. Less damaging than tylenol too.

I'm not used to asking for help and so it's hard to be vulnerable and ask about these things on here, even though I can do it pretty anonymously in a way- it's still difficult for me to do. And I appreciate the support people have offered me on here, and now I have a lot of ideas about how I want to proceed next as I begin my research on everything.

joy

This isn't really asking for help. We're asking you to help yourself as well. What this is doing is a bit like what the bible talks about when it says "putting on the armour of God." This is starting to understand the issues, and getting your head together so that you can face the real world. We are all parents here, and most of us have stuffed up, including me.

I see this place as an information sharing place. If you find something interesting, check here and see if someone has put it up. If they haven't, put it up. And better to have it up twice than not at all. I like to see us here together as creating an army of informed people. We aren't asking for help.

If anything this is a mutual moaning haven. Except remember, its not a haven. The medical profession and drug companies do read here, so you do have to consider what you put up here.

If you have something really personal you want help on, and don't want to put it here, figure out who you "relate" to best, or whose posts you feel are open, and PM them and ask privately. And don't see it as asking for help. It's part of being a community. Better to sort it out here, and in your head, before you go to a doctor and then find that they "take over" because they are the experts, and you had no time to either disagree or prevent something happening you didn't want to happen.

We all need "help" in dealing with people who think we are stupid. And most paediatricians think parents are stupid and incapable of bringing up children. If they didn't think that, they wouldn't get so high and mighty and try to railroad so many parents in the process..

Just my opinion.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Oh, that was a bit of a tome, wasn't it

[jojospok23]

I was really anxious too, until I went to a church convention this weekend. I can't really say what changed my mind, but suddenly I see her body as the perfect, and undamaged God created thing that it is. It has a purpose, and the functions it needs to see her through. Now I am at ease with my decision. DD is 6 months and only had a hepB.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Just as well Jesus wasn't born in 2005. Many of the Christian doctor/prophets would be assuring his mother, Mary, that Jesus couldn't possibly make it to the cross without at the very least, a tetanus shot. God's son couldn't possibly have a purpose and a ministry without man fixing up what God couldn't do.

Okay, so that may be heresy to some. But its true. Some doctors honest do feel that they are a god above God.

And when you mention the 200,000 Americans who die from preventable medical error every year, that was always caused by some other stupid doctor.

[joyfulone]

I have so much to think about and pray about now. Thanks so much for the support.

It's funny, I went to an MD/ Internal Medicine Dr. today for a health issue I'm dealing with for the first time, and she had no idea why I'm experiencing what I'm experiencing, she didn't know what meds would be safe to take if I'm breastfeeding (if I even wanted to take meds), she thought maybe I could wait 2 weeks and if things don't get better she can send me to a specialist who could do a painful test, which may not actually be necessary at all - in essence, she gave me no help at all! Instead, I stopped at the health food store on the way home and consulted one of their big homeopathic health books and feel more confident trying the homeopathic route than I do the Western medical route.

It was the same way w/ my pregnancy: they kept giving me ultrasounds over and over b/c they said I was so small that the baby must be running small, too; and then they wanted to induce labor with all their painful procedures, etc. b/c "she must be underweight, etc." But I refused all their ideas and went to see my acupuncturist, instead, who gave me the acupuncture treatments and had my dh burn moxa sticks over my feet that night, and I delivered a 20 1/2 inch, 7 lb 8 oz baby girl a little over 24 hours later with no complications and no medical interventions. These dr's really are not gods who know everything. Over and over I'm seen this and known this, but still it's almost like I'm hoping they know everything so I won't have to think on my own or trust myself and my judgement. Or, the Lord and His leading, too.

I'm looking forward to continuing my research, and thanks again for the encouragement that you've shared with me.

joy

[JesseMomme]

Originally Posted by Deva33mommy

If anyone can find the "what docs are supposed to say to scare you into vaxing" info, I'd like it too.

I'm
interested too. I can't seem to find the right keywords to come across it.

[aira]

Deva and Jesse,

I have tried intermittently as a new possible key-word popped into my head and still haven't come across it.

Anyone else remember it?! I think it was from this past spring...

LongLsland, were you the one who started it?!? Can't remember...

[LoveChild421]

Originally Posted by joyfulone

These dr's really are not gods who know everything. Over and over I'm seen this and known this, but still it's almost like I'm hoping they know everything so I won't have to think on my own or trust myself and my judgement. Or, the Lord and His leading, too.

I had that realization about a year before I got pregnant with my son- I had UTI's all the time and no matter how many antibiotics I took or ultrasounds of my bladder I got nothing worked- they had no suggestions but to take antibiotics all the time. I realized how ignorant Dr.s really are- all they are taught in medical school is "this disease gets this drug" and all the drugs are toxic to the system- it's all about masking the symptoms of an unwell body with drugs or surgery. No Dr. has ever "cured" anyone- they don't allow the body to get in balance and heal- they just hurt it more. I think they are in many ways "false idols" because they do act like they are God and have the power to protect us and all that. But they don't.

I don't vaccinate my son because not only do I believe in God, but I believe that he created our bodies perfectly to maintain balance and wellness if only we respect our bodies and treat them as the temples they are as it says in the Bible. I don't put crappy processed foods into my body or my son's because I respect it too much.

I don't do anything special because my son isn't vaccinated- I know that he has a strong immune system and that he most likely won't contract these diseases and if he does he will be fine because his body can fight them off. He is breastfed which protects him until his immune system can fully mature. (That is the line most Dr.s try to give parents- oh well his immune system is so immature he needs to be vaxed) well sorry docs, breastfeeding is much more effective than vaxing.

I now place my faith where it belongs, in God and in the perfectly designed bodies he has given us instead of these Doctors who are fumbling around in the dark acting as if they know it all.

*there is absolutely no need for the HIB or Prevnar if you are breastfeeding.

one thing you can do that doesn't take much time at all is to just go the National Vaccine information center website and look up each disease and each vaccine

http://www.909shot.com

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

You know Joyfulone... Genesis 5: 27 says "All the days of Methuselah were nine hundred, sixty and nine years and he died."

Wonder who his doc was, what vaccines he had, and how they dealt with his breaks.

After all, it was such an understaffed facility in those days