Need advice--work related.....UPDATED - Page 2

[polarbear]

There are some very good suggestions here, and I wanted to add my own two cents worth.

I would suggest that you make tell them that you have made some printouts, and that they are welcome to take them and read them over. This would give them the power to choose to take or not take the information without actively teaching them about it, and possibly having negative parental reactions.

Give more than just links, and use only unbiased medical references. Keeping it to medical sources will keep it from being seen as biased propaganda, or a personal opinion that some parents may find offensive.

These are great sources:
http://www.medem.com/search/article_..._typ=NAV_SERCH

www.cps.ca/english/statements/FN/fn96-01.htm

http://www.racp.edu.au/hpu/paed/circ...on/summary.htm

This is another very succinct, very informative link from the Canadian Pediatric Society:
www.caringforkids.cps.ca/babies/Circumcision.htm

Whether you propose a question and answer period after class, invite anonymous questions for a future specific answer handout (again optional) , offer one-on-one answers, or bring in an intact nude model for show and tell (not recommended), I applaud your willingness to educate. Some of those kids (male and female) know practically nothing of the function of the foreskin, or only know the schoolyard version. Anything factual that you can offer will not only educate, but will stimulate them further questioning the concept. Knowledge is power.

BRAVO!

[No2Circ]

UPDATE.....

Well, with my own classes, things have been pretty anti-climactic...no one brought it up again.

BUT, the child development teacher is going to let me talk to her classes for about 10 minutes each! (Next week.) And I received permission from the principal to leave my classes that long and go to her classes and talk about this. (The teacher had four girls, so she said she never had to decide for herself. But she has heard the cervical cancer myth.....any help debunking that?)

So, in addition to the advice I've received above, if you have any pointers for what to say to the child development classes, that would be great! (Mostly girls, but some boys.)

And I want to say that the percentage has really decreased.....from about 90% in the 1980s to about 60% now. Is that accurate?

Is it also accurate to say that the AAP doesn't recommend circ?

[Frankly Speaking]

Originally Posted by No2Circ

UPDATE.....
But she has heard the cervical cancer myth.....any help debunking that?

That's an easy one. Cervical cancer is caused by the Human Papilloma Virus. It has a latency period of 16 to 20 years, so in most cases, it is virtually impossible to determine it's source. In a study, 13-15 year old girls were tested for DNA traces of infection of HPV and it was found in 54.6% of them. The conclusion was that they were infected as they passed through the birth canal. HPV is so easily transmitted that you can contract it simply by shaking hands with an infected person. Luckily, 97% - 98% develop a natural immunity and for those who don't, there is now a quick, simple test and Merck Pharmaceuticals has announced a vaccine that will be available within the next two months and Smithkline has announced one that will be available early next year. The Merck vaccine has been shown to be 100% effective even in those already infected and has shown no adverse reactions. Any connection between circumcision status and cervical cancer has been rendered moot.


[quote]And I want to say that the percentage has really decreased.....from about 90% in the 1980s to about 60% now. Is that accurate?[quote]

According to the CDC, the 2003 rate was 56.9% and that was down 11.6% from 2001. Assuming the same drop, the 2005 rate is +/-50% and in 2006 the rate will be well below 50%. The 2003 rate was the lowest in more than 50 years and we will continue to turn the clock back even faster than has been.

Is it also accurate to say that the AAP doesn't recommend circ?

Yes, it is. However, the AAP has the weakest policy statement of all and every other medical association in the world recommends strongly against it.




Frank

[gottaknit]

I just wanted to say that I think it's great that these kids asked about it. I don't think I even knew what circ was when I was in high school, and if I had I never would have discussed it! (Catholic school ) Things sure have changed....

[Fi.]

I would mention that no one in the world does it except for us -- a lot of people don't know that.

[paquerette]

Originally Posted by Frankly Speaking

The Merck vaccine has been shown to be 100% effective even in those already infected and has shown no adverse reactions.

Weeeell... all I'm saying is, I'd head over to the vax board and search HPV and see what they have to say on that. I trust Merck about as much as I'd trust the devil himself.

[PuppyFluffer]

:

Originally Posted by paquerette

Weeeell... all I'm saying is, I'd head over to the vax board and search HPV and see what they have to say on that. I trust Merck about as much as I'd trust the devil himself.

[Stardust27]

Ammunition against the cervical cancer myth:
http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/cancer/

In short: The study that first claimed to have found a link between non-circumcision and cervical cancer (in the 1960ies) was faulty. Other studies have found no connection. Factors that really do influence cervical cancer risk include smoking, number of sexual partners, HPV. The relative immunity of Jewish women to cervical cancer has been traced back to genetics. A recent study (2002) about the connection between non-circumcision and HPV infection has faced harsh criticism because of methodological flaws. All in all, the scientific evidence is not convincing at all. And then there's the soon-to-be vaccine...

Other myths:
http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/

Stardust

[Frankly Speaking]

Originally Posted by paquerette

Weeeell... all I'm saying is, I'd head over to the vax board and search HPV and see what they have to say on that. I trust Merck about as much as I'd trust the devil himself.

The trials found no adverse reactions. We can't condemn something simply because of the company that makes it. This is not for infants, it's for those who have tested positive for HPV infection that can lead to cervical cancer. Most infected women/people will develop a natural immunity to the virus. Only about 2%-3% will not. This vaccine is for those people. You can bet your life that if I tested positive for HPV, I would be getting the vaccine and if adverse reactions showed up later, it would be worth the microscopic risk that adverse reactions would show up. I would hate to know that I had knowingly passed on a pathogen to a loved one that caused a life threatening cancer and I'm not about to give up my sex life.



Frank

[earthmama369]

Originally Posted by No2Circ

WOW. You obviously teach/taught in a different state than the one I'm in!!!! Let me guess........California or Oregon?

Connecticut.

[Ilaria]

Just subscribing.

[dynamohumm6]

Originally Posted by Frankly Speaking

The trials found no adverse reactions. We can't condemn something simply because of the company that makes it. This is not for infants, it's for those who have tested positive for HPV infection that can lead to cervical cancer. Most infected women/people will develop a natural immunity to the virus. Only about 2%-3% will not. This vaccine is for those people. You can bet your life that if I tested positive for HPV, I would be getting the vaccine and if adverse reactions showed up later, it would be worth the microscopic risk that adverse reactions would show up. I would hate to know that I had knowingly passed on a pathogen to a loved one that caused a life threatening cancer and I'm not about to give up my sex life.



Frank

I have HPV, and after two years finally had a good pap...I'm all over the vaccine if it seems it would be effective for me. Informed consent & all that...

[pdx.mothernurture]

I have the high risk type HPV and have had mild dysplasia, a couple of colposcopies and biopsies, and then a normal pap after the birth of my son. I am also very interested in the vaccine, and may request it when it starts being offered.

Jen

[~Kira~]

I was asked last year to give a Parenting workshop to the Grade 12's at my old high school (I graduated in 1998, so I actually knew the grade 12's, as they were in grade 7 when I was a senior)

I didn't know what they would want to talk about. The class was split up into 3 groups of about 12 kids and I had one group at a time. The first group I did something prepared, which was booooooring, but managed to make sure I quickly mentioned how important it was to try to BF and to say no to circumcision. The second & third groups I decided to do something different and simply asked them what questions they had for me.


Guess what?


Their main topics of interest were:

1) Labor & Delivery (espcially since I had a NCB)

2) BFing

3) Circumcision


In the third group, we went over time because they wanted to know all the sexual functions of the foreskin!!!

In each group, there was a teacher sitting in, and when we got to the sex-related talk, I looked over at that particular teacher and asked "How much can I talk about here?" and he said "Go for it!" LOL - my old History teacher, who has known me since I was born!

I handed out printouts to anyone who was interested of the Circumstitions "It's a Boy!" page. They ALL took one, every kid in the class!

4 girls from the third group stayed after the workshop to ask me more questions about male circumcision and female circumcision and said they thought they would do a Humanities project on them and discuss the Hhuman rights aspect of it. WOW - I was already walking on air, and they just blew me away with this!


I gave them all the info I had on me about RIC.


After the Workshops were done, the organizer (my old English teacher) came up to me, and said she wanted to book me for next year because all the students were raving about my workshop and how cool it was to get to ask me what they really wanted to know!


Of course, I accepted!



I only had one young guy bring up the usual myths about circumcision, and I gently explained that recent medical studies have disproven those old beliefs and so now we can protect our future children from circumcision. He finally admitted that he was circumcised and his mother had told him all those things to convince him it was better. I tried to be encouraging and explain that at the time, his mom was probably told those by her doctor or family so she just didn't have all of the info.



Good luck with your unexpected activism!




-Kira

[jee'smom]

hi! as paquerette mentioned, i teach anatomy and physiology to (mostly) juniors. out of about 160 kids, i convert ALOT most think they WILL breastfeed and WILL NOT circ. by the time i get through with them! anyway, i think it's great that we have the rare opportunity to reach many kids before they become parents. i hope it comes up again in your classroom, so you can at least answer any questions they may have. instead of one-on-one discussions, i like having class discussions on these topics, b/c then, whether they want to or not, they must sit and hear all info. (i work in a very mainstream school district where many boys would never willingly sit through many of my topics, if it wasn't part of the class discussion- although they always end up being very interested!). i agree to first say that their parents thought they were doing what was best for them. but i give them the whole truth. circumcision is gruesome... no way around that.
good luck!

[No2Circ]

Today's my big day! Wish me luck.

[trmpetplaya]

Best wishes! I'm sure you'll do great

love and peace.

[paquerette]

Originally Posted by Frankly Speaking

We can't condemn something simply because of the company that makes it.

You say tomayto, I say tomahto. I don't trust a company with a strong past history of releasing dangerous products and lying about the risks, and only recalling them when it becomes more costly to settle the lawsuits or when they're forced to.

Originally Posted by Frankly Speaking

This is not for infants, it's for those who have tested positive for HPV infection that can lead to cervical cancer.

I think it's reasonable to take the chance in that circumstance, especially since one would be an adult, or at least probably a teen, and able to make an informed choice. But I have heard that they're advocating this for all preteens, which I think is total crap.

[calngavinsmom]

Good luck to you!

Let us know how things go, I know I am very curious (or nosey....whatever )

Take care,
Tara

[Frankly Speaking]

Originally Posted by paquerette

You say tomayto, I say tomahto. I don't trust a company with a strong past history of releasing dangerous products and lying about the risks, and only recalling them when it becomes more costly to settle the lawsuits or when they're forced to.

I basically agree with you but HPV is pervasive. You have to decide whether the risk of trusting Merk or the risk of cervical cancer is more important. If you test positive for active HPV, your chances of cervical cancer is very high.

What kind of car do you drive? Every automobile manufacturer has had some dangerous defect in their product. At first they dismiss it, then they deny it, then they are sued about it and finally, they admit it and make the repairs to make their product safe. If you will buy their cars, what's the difference?

I think it's reasonable to take the chance in that circumstance, especially since one would be an adult, or at least probably a teen, and able to make an informed choice. But I have heard that they're advocating this for all preteens, which I think is total crap.

I also think that is going overboard. Since Gardisil will stop existing HPV infections dead in their tracks it should not be used as a prophylaxis. But, I think that every expectant mother should be tested for the presence of HPV because the mother can pass the infection on to the child as it is passing through the birth canal. Apparently, this is very common. If the mother tests positive for the virus, she can make the decision of whether she wants to be vaccinated and if she elects not to, the child should be tested at around 5 years old to determine if it was infected. 97% - 98% of infected people will develop a natural immunity to HPV in about 3 years. If I were female, I would probably get the vaccination but if not, I would want to be tested every 4 or 5 years for HPV infection. HPV is not necessarily a STD. It can be transmitted as easily as shaking hands with an infected person



Frank