How do I convince him circ isn't right without making him feel bad?

[lacysmommy]

DH is NOT on board with no circing. He won't do the research, won't listen to my (very valid) arguments, etc. I've been talking to my ped and my midwife, both of whom will talk to him if/when we need it. At this point, I'm not going to bring it up, but I plan to find out if we're having a boy or a girl. If it is a boy, we will have to start having conversations about circ.

The thing is, I don't want him to think that his parents made a mistake with choosing to circ him and his brothers. He was born in the late 70's, when pretty much everyone was circed. He has deep love and respect for his mother, who can do know wrong (and I agree with that, she was pretty much perfect, which is why I believe she was taken away from us so early in her life). His father is also a very loving and wonderful guy. So how can I phrase things and show him information without making him think that his parents made a mistake? Or that I would prefer having a man with a foreskin?

Links, suggestions of what to say, anything would help. He wants to circ because he witnessed some pretty bad teasing situations in the locker room, and also because of decreasing the risk of infection (almost everyone he knew that was intact was circumcized later on in life due to infection). I know they're not legitimate reasons to circ, but to him, they are extremely important and he doesn't change his mind easily. Although I have been able to help him see things my way before-- he was adamently against homebirth, yet DD was born at home, and he was the one who made that call.

I am 10 weeks along, so I have a good 2 months before we find out (if the clinic lets us-- I heard they changed their policy) what we're having. Thanks!

[alegna]

Start reading here. There are tons of good links. If he's worried about locker room jokes, make sure he knows how the numbers are going down. It's very possible that by the time your child is in high school more boys will be intact. As for infections- does he realize that Europeans don't circ?

good luck

-Angela

[Quirky]

On infections - it is likely that any men of his acquaintance who "had" to be circed later in life had problems caused by the repeated retractions for "cleaning" that the medical profession advised back in the day. The infant foreskin is bonded to the glans exactly as the fingernail is bonded to the finger. You wouldn't rip your fingernails back to clean under them - it would create all sorts of scarring, not to mention pain and trauma. Well, when the foreskin is ripped back repeatedly it allows pathogens to enter, causes scarring, and leads to acquired phimosis (the foreskin won't retract). Without the repeated retractions it's likely they would have had zero problems.

Also, even if they did have infections, and some baby boys do get infected foreskins, we treat infections with antibiotics, not amputation. I've had UTIs as well as an infected pimple on my labia and no one ever suggested cutting parts of my genitals off as treatment. (I'm being serious here, not snarky!)

On the parental front - that's easy. His parents did the best they could with the information they had. Back in the day, medical doctors almost unanimously recommended circumcision based on all sorts of false beliefs and incorrect information. There was no Internet and no good information accessible to parents published in baby books, etc. So it's not his parents' fault at all that they circed him - they thought they were doing the right thing.

But these days, the AAP statement says routine circ is not recommended for infants because the potential (i.e., unproven) benefits do not outweigh the risks. There are no medical or hygenic reasons to circ.

So all you're left with is cosmetic surgery - and why put a baby through cosmetic surgery? To deal with locker room teasing? With the rates of circ dropping like a rock, there will be plenty of intact boys as well as circed boys in the locker room. Not to mention, kids are mean and bully, and we have to raise our kids a) not to be bullies and b) to have the self-confidence not to be bothered by bullies who will tease them about their penis, their nose, their ears, their clothes, their height, their glasses, etc. Cosmetic surgery on one part of the body will not eliminate all teasing a child may face in life.

[boingo82]

Back when your DH was born, "everyone" - the medical community, the parents, everyone, believed that it was healthier. Now the medical community has changed its mind, so you don't have to go through the bother, isn't that great! At least, that's what I went for with my DH. I started out saying that neither was really bad or good..but since they didn't recommend circ anymore and it was painful, why bother?

(Of course once I had him on my side I brought home more and more info, he is now of the opinion that it's horrible.)

[No2Circ]

Here's an article for YOU to read (NOT to show your dh):

http://www.stopcirc.com/vincent/vuln...ty_of_men.html

[DevaMajka]

Let me tell you how I changed dp's mind (he is circed)- after we circed our ds, I read a few things about circ (I read stuff before, evidently just not the right stuff ), and decided it was an awful thing to do. I wanted dp to agree- just in case there is a #2.
I just brought up facts, one at a time, on separate occasions, over a few weeks or months (don't really remember). So our conversations about circ were 5 minutes at the most. I didn't really have anything to prove in THAT conversation, so I was able to leave it and let him think about what I'd said. I think that really helped. He didn't have to come up with an opposite argument, because it wasn't a debate. kwim?
For example, I'd say "If you had a finger cut off in an accident, would you want to cut ds's finger off too?" "Oh, and if you want him to look like you, we ought to get him some tattoos" This was all said in a half joking way- kwim? and later in time- after I could tell he was starting to change his views. His response was "well, yeah. he wouldn't miss a finger." lol

I like this page a lot http://www.cirp.org/library/normal/aap/

I'd start with medical facts- like it's unecessary and there IS a risk of complications. It's cosmetic surgery, and not recommended by any medical association. And even though the risk of serious benefits may be rare, it's there. And the risk of less serious complications is soooo common. Just about everyone I know who has a circed son has had to deal with adhesions- including myself. I know it's not really a big deal, but it hurt ds, and that alone was enough for me to wish I had never done it.

Boys with an intact foreskin have health advantages over those who have been circumcised. The intact foreskin protects the glans penis from ammoniacal diapers (nappies) and prevents meatitis, meatal ulceration, and meatal stenosis. The sub-preputial moisture contains lysozyme, an enzyme that attacks and destroys pathogens.17 Intact boys don't have an open circumcision wound that may become infected and so they have fewer infections.17 Intact boys are not troubled with adhesions or skin bridges, which are complications of circumcision.

http://www.cirp.org/library/hygiene/
Just as many circed babies need to have a second circ, as intact babies who need to be circed.

Of every 1,000 boys who are circumcised: About 10 babies may need to have the circumcision done again because of a poor result.

Of every 1,000 boys who are not circumcised: 10 will have a circumcision later in life for medical reasons

http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/babies/Circumcision.htm this is the Canadian Pediatric Society

To soften it, say something like they used to really believe that there were medical benefits, but more research has shown that the risks outweigh the benefits. That way, his parents DID do what they thought was the right thing. kwim?
I mean, if his parents decided to have his tonsils out, and there is now evidence that it's not a great idea, would it make him feel badly about his parents? probably not- they did what they thought was right. and he probably wouldn't feel bad about himself either. He is the person he is, and you love him that way.

Bring up the fact that almost half of boys born today are left intact (which takes down the lockerroom argument). And mention the fact that the VAST MAJORITY of men worldwide are intact, and that most countries don't even do routine circs. Canada won't cover it because it's cosmetic, and some states in the US won't either.

Routine Infant Circumcision [RIC] is not practiced in most medically advanced nations. Unlike American parents, few parents worldwide are actually faced with this choice. Their babies are automatically brought home intact. 82% of the world’s living men are intact. Few people are aware of the fact that circumcision was introduced to our culture in an attempt to eliminate masturbation.

http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/

And mention the fact that most infections in circed boys are caused by being forcfully retracted. And that cleaning an intact newborn is 100 times easier than cleaning a circed newborn. And even when they get older, all they have to do is clean it, and they're good to go.

The American Academy of Pediatrics in 1975 stated: "A program of education leading to continuing good personal hygiene would offer all the advantages of routine circumcision without the attendant surgical risk."

http://www.noharmm.org/correct.htm

and the foreskin is fused to the penis at birth, and they have to RIP it off before they circ

But it just slides back and then they clip it off or something?

No, actually it doesn't even begin to slide back until around age 2 or 3 at the earliest, and frequently much later. In a newborn, the opening of the foreskin is big enough to let urine through and the foreskin itself is tightly fused to the head and shaft of the penis - like a fingernail is fused to the nail bed. It doesn't slide back at all.

Then how do they get it off of there to cut it?

They use a blunt probe to separate them. It feels about like having a fingernail ripped off... except it's on the most sensitive part of the body. The head of the penis looks like the finger minus the fingernail too, very raw and bloody.

http://oknocirc.blogspot.com/

Bring up all this stuff separately- maybe even starting now- like you just read it, and found it interesting. Kinda like "wow! did you know that 85% of the men in the world are intact?" then just leave it, if he doesn't push it. If he does, try to end the conversation nicely, without convincing him. My guess is he'll think about it at least a little bit.
You know the phenomenon where, if you get into a debate with someone, there's a good chance they'll argue with you, even if they don't really disagree with you? (ok, I know *I* do that. lol) I think that applies here. Give him time, and don't go into it like you have a point to prove. Just give him information. Because, really, the information is enough for most people. kwim? (well, maybe that's just me hoping it would be. lol)

ok, I'll stop
I hth!

[Minky]

I pretty much said what evveryone else has said--my DH's mom did the best she could wiht the information she had. Have you had your appendix out or know anyone who did while you were younger? Same type of thang.

DH also realy got into it with me about if we leave intact does it mean I think he's missing something and wish he hadn't been circed? Truth be told I tsill don't think I would want to be with an intact guy for some personal reason's in my past but also because women in our generation were conditioned to prefer circed to intact. I tell him that yes I like his, ahem, type best, but that our DD and DS's generation will have more intact friends than we did and will not have our same hang ups.

That one worked not only for the "did my mom make the wrong choice" argument but for the "I feel inadequte now" argument.