Having a hard time with weaning young toddler threads - Page 3

[Ruthla]

I think it would be good for mamas new to AP to realize that weaning during toddlerhood IS possible- it's not a choice between weaning before 15m or nursing til age 5.

[SereneBabe]

I don't know what thread sparked controversy, but, I've been thinking about this a lot -- I just love that there is a place (this forum) where I can be totally open about how I wish that all children were the ones deciding when to stop breastfeeding (I don't like the word, "wean," is that strange?).

When friends who are otherwise very "aware parenting" types talk about "night weaning" because it "became a habit," I have to work REALLY hard at remembering that they are not me and that my job is not to shame them or judge them since I can not possibly know what their experience is.

I need to trust the universe.

I need to trust that mothers will do what is best for their children and, if for the most part my friends are respecting their children as people rather than programable units requiring domination, I try to rest in knowing that the universe will care for them.

If a friend talked about "night weaning" BEFORE doing it, I would talk exclusively about my decisions and my experience and why I'm doing things the way I am.

But, I do think that this is not the place where we need to spend a lot of time saying, "it's okay, it's okay, it's okay that you are deciding it's time for your child to stop nursing because it is something you need."

However, I wouldn't like any place (in an ideal world) to be a place where we think we know what's best for anyone else -- though each of us has to draw our own line, if you know what I mean. This forum name, though, seems to draw it for us, yes?

--Heather

[TiredX2]

Originally Posted by mavery

I haven't read the thread people are referring to, but I just wanted to say that I think weaning is quite a different matter from CIO (and I would hate to see discussion of weaning banned from MDC). Weaning is much more complex because nursing and weaning vary so much from nursing-pair to nursing-pair, depending on baby's needs as well as mom's, whereas CIO is one-size fits all. Some babies self-wean early, some cut down a lot and are easily encouraged to complete weaning.

I really don't see a difference in that you could reverse everything you just said.


I just wanted to say that I think CIO is quite a different matter from weaning. CIO is much more complex because when a child sleeps through the night, or goes to sleep on their own, varies so much from child to child. Also, some families have greater needs for uninterupted sleep, or for baby to be able to sleep alone than others. Some babies go to sleep by themselves and sleep though the night early in infancy, some get there with just a little encouragament and others don't sleep through the night until well into childhood. And with CIO, some babies just wimper for a couple minutes while others sob and get so sick they throw up. There are so many different versions of CIO and how each one interacts with a different babies personality.... so complex.


My point is that no matter is completely simple. But I think MDC *should* take a pretty clear stance that completely mother led weaning of young toddlers is *not* what MDC is about.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by TiredX2

My point is that no matter is completely simple. But I think MDC *should* take a pretty clear stance that completely mother led weaning of young toddlers is *not* what MDC is about.

[mavery]

Originally Posted by TiredX2

I just wanted to say that I think CIO is quite a different matter from weaning. CIO is much more complex because when a child sleeps through the night, or goes to sleep on their own, varies so much from child to child. Also, some families have greater needs for uninterupted sleep, or for baby to be able to sleep alone than others. Some babies go to sleep by themselves and sleep though the night early in infancy, some get there with just a little encouragament and others don't sleep through the night until well into childhood. And with CIO, some babies just wimper for a couple minutes while others sob and get so sick they throw up. There are so many different versions of CIO and how each one interacts with a different babies personality.... so complex.

Fair enough. I guess I have to work harder to figure out why I feel these are so different. My gut reaction is very strong, just as many of you apparently have a strong reaction in the other direction...

[ShadowMom]

Originally Posted by TiredX2

My point is that no matter is completely simple. But I think MDC *should* take a pretty clear stance that completely mother led weaning of young toddlers is *not* what MDC is about.

Well, I will have to be the lone voice of dissent. I'm somewhat tired of MDC constantly censoring, deleting and moving posts so that they can "take a stance".

I believe that you (collective you) take a stance by setting an example and through your actions, not by setting policies and telling people you won't allow them to talk about certain things.

So, while I don't care for these threads either, I think those who are emotionally affected by them have the option to not read them or to not visit those forums. Or, provide some gentle direction or advice to the poster.

Personally, I have read many disturbing threads at MDC, and my response is to close them as quickly as possible and just pretend they're not there.

I guess it's the libertarian in me but when we have a problem, I don't think legislation (even in the proverbial sense, as at MDC) is the answer.

So, while I respect everyone on this thread and care about you and have no desire for ill will, I respectfully disagree with this solution.

[amyamanda]

Originally Posted by inezyv

Is it just me who has a hard time keeping my mouth shut and offering unsolicted advice about why they should not wean?

For what it's worth, I don't see anything wrong with trying to talk mamas out of it...if it's approached in a loving and respectful manner. I have heard so many moms say, about various decisions, "If only I had known you COULD do that" or "If only I had known ONE PERSON who had done it that way, I would have found it possible, too." I think it's possible to do this respectfully by trying to bring to light the mom's reasons for wanting to wean, and giving her a new perspective on the situation by suggesting other possible solutions. I also think it helps tremendously to share our experiences with people - not necessarily "I nursed my son until he was 5" but "I remember feeling (whatever - overwhelmed, irritated, whatever she's feeling that you can relate to) and wanting to wean around that age, but I found it worked best for us to keep nursing and try X instead." Sometimes what a mom really wants is not to wean but to be heard, to have her struggle validated, to know she is not alone, to follow on the footsteps of someone who is already holding up the torch and marching bravely forward.

OTOH, I recognize that there are exceedingly rare circumstances necessitating mother-led premature weaning. I would not see anything wrong with a mom posting here at MDC for weaning advice in that kind of situation, and I *would* expect she would least share some minimal explanation so everyone reading would recognize that her situation was exceptional.

All that is to say, I would not keep my mouth shut. I would hope that my friends (and even kind strangers) would do the same for me in a situation where they felt I might be making a decision I would later regret - help me examine my motives and survey other possible solutions.

[middlemamma]

I hate seeing threads like this at MDC ever....

I am not a VERY crunchy person..but I can say I am crunchier than I was 6 months ago and way crunchier than I was a year ago. The only reason I found this forum at all (MDC in general) was because I am a "weirdo" who went against all of my mainstream friends and bfed and no vaxed and no circ LONG before I knew there was even a group of folks who considered these things normal. And I made those choices from my GUT. Searching desperatley for support on those choices I found Mothering and MDC. A WHOLE NEW WORLD opened up to me. I never thought about organic, or CD, or the other new things I am doing for my family till I came here. I learn more and more every day I come here and browse. I know how it feels to be the "freak" on my block who endangers my kids by not vaxing and being reprimanded for my "poor" parenting because I don't do antibiotics. I know that the judging sucks and the NARROW MINDS suck even harder than my Kirby. You know what else? I had no idea that moms in this forum felt so strongly about CLW till I happened on this thread tonight. And you know what...despite all the negativity here tonight I will do more research for my 8 month old who is still nursing. And more importantly than that I will choose what feels right in my GUT and be ok with myself as a mom. Because to be the mother I am....means that I am the one my mainstream friends and family think isn't doing a good job and if most of you posting here tonight met me you wouldn't think I was a good mother either. So...where in the heck does that leave me? Better be happy and confidant in myself and my love for my kids or I am up a creek huh?

Middle Mamma

[TiredX2]

Originally Posted by middlemamma

You know what else? I had no idea that moms in this forum felt so strongly about CLW till I happened on this thread tonight. And you know what...despite all the negativity here tonight I will do more research for my 8 month old who is still nursing. And more importantly than that I will choose what feels right in my GUT and be ok with myself as a mom. Because to be the mother I am....means that I am the one my mainstream friends and family think isn't doing a good job and if most of you posting here tonight met me you wouldn't think I was a good mother either. So...where in the heck does that leave me? Better be happy and confidant in myself and my love for my kids or I am up a creek huh?

I'm not sure who this is addressed to, but as someone who is adamently pro-CLW, I will respond.

I am not sure where you would get the idea that I think you are "not a good mother" if you choose to not CLW. I can see where you get the idea that I think a child is owed at least two years of nursing, I can see where you get the idea that I don't like MDC to host discussions of weaning infants and young toddlers. But I think that it is pretty presumptuous to assume that means I think that a person who does, or would, wean an infant or toddler is automatically a bad mother.

To clarify: I DO NOT. I think my friend, who weaned her 1st at 12 months, her 2nd beofre 18 and her 3rd before 15 and will, I am sure wean #4 before 15 months, too is a GREAT MOTHER. And you know why she weaned? She just didn't want to nurse anymore. I think my SIL who's children were completely ffed by 5 months is a GREAT MOTHER. I think my friend who weaned her under 2 year old to try to get pg again is a GREAT MOTHER. I think my SIL who's children were completely ffed by 5 months is a GREAT MOTHER. I know two people IRL who even kinda CLW and I guarantee you I know many more people than that who I consider to be excellent parents.

But if you expect to come here and get support and encouragement for weaning your 8-18 month old just "because"... well, I also think it's fair to not want to provide it. And honestly, you might want to consider that you are feeling a bit guilty and are reading personal comments into this.

[middlemamma]

PP, maybe you don't THINK your refusal to support a fellow mom, GREAT mother or not, isn't a CLEAR judgement on her mothering but regardless of how YOU THINK your statements come accross or how you WISH your statements to come accross really isn't relative. When you refuse to support a fellow mother because you disagree with her choices it IS a judgement. You don't get to sit and say I won't support you, I disagree totally with you...but oh by the way I am not judging you. It doesn't work that way. If you are going to have the fortitude to say I disagree with you, I WON'T support you...why not just come right out and admit you are judging someone? What more do you have to lose?

For the record I am not considering weaning my daughter..I was merely stating that last night was THE first time ever that I came into the CLW board and this is the HOT thread I found. I had no idea these thoughts or opinions were around. I didn't know what this board was about I came to check it out. I learned new things. It gave me a lot to think about in the months of bfing to come.

On the insinuation that I feel guilty...LOL. I am a mom...I struglle with guilt all the time. It kind of comes with the territory. Should I have? What if I had? What if I hadn't? However I am trying very hard to teach myself to respect myself as a mom and to know that since I make my choices from my heart and my gut that I truly am doing the best I can, and I need to be okay with that. It really matters not where I go or what circles I travel in I will ALWAYS find a mom who disagrees with my parenting. The question is will she RESPECT and SUPPORT me regardless of HER opinion because she KNOWS I am doing what is in my heart and soul. THOSE are the moms I want to be around.

Ya know I am probably as vehamently against Circ as you are weaning before 2 years (if I read your post right). And when a mom says to me she is going to circ I almost have to bite my cheek to the point of bleeding to regroup my thoughts and carry on with clarity and distinct thought as to not offend but try my damndest to change her mind BEFORE I say something to turn her off. Usually what I do is hand her all the info I can find that is for circ and I hand her all the stuff I have on not. We know which outweights the other but I try to appear as if I am genuinely trying to be fair. I am not, there is nothing genuine in my tactics. My MAIN concern is saving that baby boy. But I go about it in a way to make her feel like I care about her and her child and I really want her to be the best mom she can me. When they choose to circ anyway I am always sad and most usually very angry. But I still would support that mom if something happened during or after the circ and she needed me or my advice. I would not say to her hey! you chose to circ and I don't agree with it so tough it out sweetie. I realize that this is kind of like comparing apples and oranges but its the best I could come to try and explain what this train of thought is doing.

I TOTALLY think if you have an opinion SHARE IT! Try and convince them to try something else. Maybe they just needed to hear someone cared or whatever. But after you have exhausted your resources and she still decides to do what you do not agree with why can't you still put your virtual arm around her and say ok...Im not you, but I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are doing the best you can.

MAYBE with THAT kind of treatment she might even look back and see her choice differently the next time and the next baby will make it 2 years or beyond. YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT THOUGHTS THE RIGHT KIND OF ATTITUDE WILL CREATE IN A PERSON. LOVE and KINDNESS will make much greater strides in these parenting arenas than cold shoulders and judgement EVER will.

Middle Mamma

[middlemamma]

I think something got very confused....

I was just in BFing beyond infancy. There are threads there for mom led weaning....so I guess my first statement is...That I thought (after very LITTLE browsing for the first time last night around these threads) that this thread was about Mothering and MDC being about CLW...only. Now I am seeing that the whole point was that there are places to go for mom led weaning and why bring those questions to the CLW forum??? If that is so I am very sorry for even posting here...if there is a support in place for moms who choose not to CLW then why would they post in clw about weaning before 2? I apologize fully if this is the case.... I really misunderstood I think.

[bobandjess99]

Originally Posted by mavery

Fair enough. I guess I have to work harder to figure out why I feel these are so different. My gut reaction is very strong, just as many of you apparently have a strong reaction in the other direction...

It is all brainwashing...our society ingrains in us what is "good" and "bad".......for example, most of us would not think twice about being openly critical of a mom who ...say, did not put her infant in a carseat, because she felt it was her "personal choice" because our society tells us carseats are SOO important (so important we have made it a LAW) and anyone who doesn't use one is a "bad parent" and it is "politically correct" to reprimand a mom for not putting her infant in a carseat.......however, to NOT BF???? Well...THAT is a "personal choice" and we should "respect her decision" and it is VERY "politically incorrect" to openly critisize a mom for not BF'ing..... :

(Note, I am not trying to say carseats are not important, just using them as an example of something our society values as opposed to the way BFing is not valued...)


I think this is one of the KEY points about BF'ing in general....that for some reason, it is not "okay" to be critical of moms who do not breastfeed. We just had this discussion at work, and I believe that a lot of it has to do with the negative attitude towards BFing in general and the fact that it has come to be considered a "personal choice". Bullcrappy!! It is NOT a personal choice. Children have the RIGHT to receive breastmilk, and not some inferior synthesized chemical crap that WILL make them less intelligent, chronically sicker and more likely to contract serious fatal illnesses like diabetes, heart disease and cancer. But no, it is not looked at in that way by most people....Not BF'ing is maybe (arguably) the most important thing you can do for your childs health, yet there is NO stigma attached to someone who does not do it, at least not in the majority mainstream......rather, those of us who do believe moms should feel ashamed for choosing (note i said "choosing", this obviously does not pertain to mothers who *can't* BF) not to BF are made to feel WE are the wrong ones, the bad ones, and I say HOOEY!

In my world, where i reign supreme, everyone breastfeeds, and the small percentage of mommas who truly can't breastfeed would be supplied with MM for free, from the abundant milk bank supply from the 98% or so that are breastfeeding...and formula companies who be non-profit....and the tobacco industry wouldn't exist....and 90% of all births would happen at home.....and spanking and CIO would be considered child abuse, and ......

[alegna]

Jess, I think I love you... could you say that again louder?









-Angela

[Treasuremapper]

Jess, I love your post.

[TiredX2]

Originally Posted by middlemamma

PP, maybe you don't THINK your refusal to support a fellow mom, GREAT mother or not, isn't a CLEAR judgement on her mothering but regardless of how YOU THINK your statements come accross or how you WISH your statements to come accross really isn't relative. When you refuse to support a fellow mother because you disagree with her choices it IS a judgement. You don't get to sit and say I won't support you, I disagree totally with you...but oh by the way I am not judging you. It doesn't work that way. If you are going to have the fortitude to say I disagree with you, I WON'T support you...why not just come right out and admit you are judging someone? What more do you have to lose?

I support her as a mother, I support her as a person, I support her right to choose. I will not give her ADVICE and ENCOURAGEMENT to do that, though. And I *can* negatively judge one aspect of a person's parenting without deciding that they are a bad parent (which is the accusation you made--- that the people on here thought that anyone who did not CLW was a "bad mother")

[Rainbow Brite]

Originally Posted by bobandjess99

In my world, where i reign supreme, everyone breastfeeds, and the small percentage of mommas who truly can't breastfeed would be supplied with MM for free, from the abundant milk bank supply from the 98% or so that are breastfeeding...and formula companies who be non-profit....and the tobacco industry wouldn't exist....and 90% of all births would happen at home.....and spanking and CIO would be considered child abuse, and ......

Can I come live in your world please :

[Rainbow Brite]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

All you need to do is PM a mod and ask her to move the post to BBI (breastfeeding beyond infancy.) I don't think that a subforum of "gentle weaning" is really needed- in a way, I think that such a forum would encourage moms to think of mother-led-weaning. Not that women thinking of weaning shouldn't have support, just that we don't need a forum encouraging it. Similarly, there's a c/s support thread, but no "surgical birth by choice" forum.

Fair enough, I'll admit it was a selfish idea b/c I never go into Bf beyond infancy b/c of all the weaning posts, so if they were hidden, *I* would like the forum more
Also, subforms are a bit hidden, maybe more so than the "Mother led weaning thread for November"

[mistymama]

I wish someone would have said something to me ...

I didn't find MDC until my toddler was already weaned.

I thought he was self-weaning at 14 months, when in fact, I think he was just teething and sick and on a nursing strike. He never asked to nurse again ... but I also never offered it again either. *sigh*

I miss nursing him so much ... he's going to be 3 next week and I wonder if we would still be nursing had I not mistakenly weaned him.

[alegna]

-Angela

[rmzbm]

What Jess said...
Made me think back to the time DS2 was born...had to share (BLAH!!) a hosp. room with a mom who had her baby a day after mine. Some relative came to visit her & asked is she was BFing...she QUITE angerly snapped: "NO!! There's no law that says I have to!!" (Touchy much??)
Hmmm...the wheels in my head don't need alot'a grease to start turning...

(And, no, I am not REALLY suggesting that a law be made, just wishful thinking!!)