The Well-Trained Mind

[I Believe in Fairies]

Any thoughts on this book? Anyone using it?

As some may remember, I have really been enamored of Waldorf home schooling. There is a lot I love about it and a lot I do not like about it. Well, last week I was at the library and found "The Well-Trained Mind" and checked it out. My DH and I love it, and there is less that I personally object to in TWTM than I do with Waldorf.

I'm not going to throw Waldorf to the curb, because there is some of it that I love and that works well with Annabelle.

[Sherricp]

I'm not familiar with it, but can you say more about it?

I'm finding lots of things I like in many educational philosophies, but nothing that continues to fit both my ideals and my child over time.

Sherri

[barbara]

The Title sounds familar, but I don't think I have read it. Who is the author?

i do love to take a little of this and that and apply it to make our own unique way of living and learning. (I guess that is how I cook as well!) I have found that we generally know within ourselves what works and enjoy finding written material that confirms what we have felt in our hearts!

Namaste,
b

[I Believe in Fairies]

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/

[faeriemom]

We're classical homeschoolers, and this is the book we use as a foundation. I really like The Well Trained Mind, and the way the author's have laid out curriculum ideas for each grade level. We also utilize the web site and discussion boards.

I have to say that at first I was a bit put-off by how rigid the structure is in TWTM. But I've since learned that the Wise's were actually a little more flexible in their daily "schooling" routine than they come across in the book. Apparantly they wanted to offer concrete schedules and lesson ideas to help homeschoolers who might not be comfortable starting out on their own. Just something I read....

I use the basic ideas and scheduling in TWTM, but adapt it to fit our life and my son's temperament.

[anythingelse]

I loved the book the well trained mind and tried to use some of the classical materials in the sequence the author suggests. But reality of how relaxed we are now with homeschooling and life kind of did not fit us into the WTM curriculum. Took me forever to actually read the whole book and made me feel kind of bad cause there was no way we could do the schedule she suggests with our kids
I gave up teaching my sons Latin root words, they were not interested (now to try to focus on getting them to aim better & FLUSH the toilet) . there is a great Catholic version kind of classical WTM by Laura Berquist I loved also that I think is a bit more realistic do-able KWIM? . There are some active yahoo egroups for WTM if you go that way that share quite a bit of online info.
Good luck,
Mary

[leafylady]

I really like the basic concept and curriculum layout in the book. I haven't started using it yet, because my oldest is only 3.

Are there good websites on classical education that are secular, not based in Christianity? I'm not interested in that aspect of classical education.

TWTM website is ok. I know she's a christian homeschooler, but it doesn't overwhelm her website. Are there others?

I like the idea of using TWTM as a foundation and being less rigid in practice, as faeriemom said.

[branwyn]

i loved the book but the whole concept we found to be very hard to implement. so we just use a few of the ideas every now and again (we are too relaxed for TWTM)

[Sherricp]

I just browsed the site a little. I mostly read the section on preschoolers since I have a 2 year-old. Some of the advice, like reading a lot, having fun with a variety of books, talking a lot about what you're doing--all these sounded good, but it's not like I don't read that advice practically everywhere. I thought there was too much emphasis on letters and numbers as the primary "education" for preschoolers. I think the kids who are interested in learning that will ask for it, and I think that kids who are not interested are poorly served by spending their time there. From your descriptions of your daughter, she may well be an early reader since she seems to be picking up a lot without much effort. Of course, that probably also means you won't have to spend much effort.

I think that better preschool age learning activities would be lots of opportunities to move (parks, children's museusm, etc.), nature walks where you talk about what you see and the changes that occur through the seasons, opportunities to play with other kids, meeting people of all ages, cooking, pouring, measuring, building, artistic creations, texture play, water play, talking about emotions, learning competency skills and impulse control, comparing objects (weight, appearance, etc.), lots of fantasy play alone and with others, making up stories or dictating "what we did today"...those kinds of things.

My 2 year-old is very much a kinesthetic learner, and it sounds like your daughter is much more verbal and visual, so this program may work much better for you than for me. I'm going to keep looking.

[khrisday]

We started out using WTM last year, and now are unschooling but I still love many of the the theories and suggestions from WTM. Learning history chronologically makes so much sense, and tying literature into it makes it an amazing experience. I also think that learnign logic is a great idea.

[bestjob]

I don't homeschool, but I use TWTM to supplement my children's schooling. One thing that I have found that doesn't work very well is to try to stick with the particular themes of learning. Sometimes my children want to hear a story about Greek gods and then another about Robin Hood, all in one sitting. Learning history chronologically doesn't work for us, either. We tend to be more interested in the places we visit than the places we read about, so our small children are learning more about the history of Canada than about ancient civilizations. As our travel itineraries expand, so will our history interests.

[Openskyheart]

I'm using ideas from the WTM, but not doing that intensive schedule suggested in the book (The author doesn't either, BTW). I've gotten some great curriculum suggestions from their forum.

My Ds (8 y.o. - 2nd grade, I guess) is homeschooling, and my dd (6 y.o.) is still in private school and does a little bit of "afterschooling" (casually - her choice) with WTM ideas.

So far, we're doing Miquon Math 15 - 20 mins tops/ 5 days, English for the Thoughtful Child 15 mins tops, 3-4 days - my DS really enjoys the oral exercises in this book - and even the writing aspect is interesting to him (this is pretty close to miraculous to be able to say this! LOL). He's reading 15 mins/day 6-7 days, but not related to historical period we're studying. He's also doing Handwriting Without Tears - Cursive about 3 days/week (10 mins) I read to him/them 1 hour or more/day - Right now we're reading Pippi Goes on Board and Prince Caspian (Chronicles of Narnia #4). My ds' FAVORITE topic in the world is science, so we do lots of science - but not Biology one year, then Chemistry the next, as recommended in WTM, we just do what's fun and interesting right now.

The part we all like best is the World History aspect. I never tell them it's a "lesson" or part of homeschooling/afterschooling. I just get out the book, and start reading about the particular topic. If I stop reading for any reason, they both shout out "Keep reading, keep reading!!" We also go to the library and they pick out whatever books they want, and I pick out children's books related to the time period (Miss Frizzle in Ancient Egypt was a huge hit). We also have an Egyptian Museum fairly close to us, so we took a trip to the museum - They have real mummies there!

Ds also takes a hs program science class, art class, has outdoor/indoor playtime with other hsers on 2 afternoons/week (3 hours/day). He also takes a sculpture class (2 hours/week).

What we DON'T do (so far): Spelling, Foreign Language, Formal music lessons, assigned science lessons, Latin (though this intrigues me - but I think he'd balk at it right now).

What I love about hsing is taking what we need (and enjoy), and leaving the rest.

The WTM forums sometimes seem more Christian-focused and sometimes not. I didn't get the Christian homeschool slant from the book - The authors were careful to include secular curriculum suggestions.

Also, it's important to go to the websight for current information, and curriculum reviews, because they continually evaluate, and re-evaluate their recommendations, and come up with some great stuff.

Laura

[Linda in Arizona]

I've read WTM but we don't use it. We might someday when they kids are older -- a lot older. I disagree with a great deal of what the WTM says about early childhood education. (I would consider everything before about age 7 to be early childhood.)

The WTM says that children should be reading well enough to read to learn when they start first grade. This statement is out of line with everything else I've read. Many, many children are simple not ready to read at that point, and most who are ready are learning to read and simple can not read well enough to read to learn.

There is also a section where the authors say "Reading is easy. Let me repeat that. Reading is easy." Reading is easy for some people and not so easy for other people. I used to tutor literacy and reading isn't easy for everybody. I think the authors would be more honest saying something like, "Reading was easy for my kids and I think that unless it is easy for your kids, you must be doing something wrong."

There are many things I like about WTM, but as my oldest is 6, I find that it has nothing to offer us now.

Some books I do like for younger kids:

Miseducation: Preschoolers at Risk by David Elkind

Your Child's Growing Mind by Jane Healy

[I Believe in Fairies]

I have a two year old who knows about 20 of her upper case letters and got 3/4ths of it without people showing her what they are. My husband taught himself to read when he was three and before the start of first grade had read every single book in the school library.

So for us, I think reading will be easy. I know it's not for everyone since I was a Laubauch literacy tutor.

[Openskyheart]

Good point about reading development, Linda. We just started with WTM a few months ago, and my ds is 8 y.o, and already reading - but was NOT reading "well enough to learn" at the beginning of first grade. He's had lots of phonics instruction, too, but it didn't really sink in until around his 8th birthday.

I'm a speech-language pathologist and have worked with many bright kids (and know several others in my family ) who didn't read well enough to learn until 8 or 9 years old. I think this is much more common than school curriculum developers are willing to admit.

Oh, another point about WTM - the authors, as far as I can tell, are not child development experts, they're parents who've followed this plan with their own children.

Laura

[Sherricp]

Age of reading seems to be one of the main differences between us on this list. I want to add a discussion I had with my husband recently about how he learned to read. I am saying what I believe and what I believe differs with many people (here and elsewhere), I do respect those who teach their kids to read earlier and don't think that parents who keep learning generally fun and not negatively stressful for their children are doing them good and not harm.

My husband was also an early reader and read for meaning. He thinks he was reading when he was three. He definitely was a competent reader when he entered kindergarten. Thing is, nobody sat down with him and taught him the alphabet or did anything he remembers to teach him to read. Actually, the only relative who did anything to push him to read was his older brother who read Mad magazine, laughed hilariously, an refused to read DH the jokes. So DH learned to read because there was something he wanted to read. According to Elkind, Jane Healy, and some others I've read, most true early readers (those who are actually enjoying and getting meaning out of what they read as opposed to those who merely recognize words and sound out letters successfully at an early age) learn to read spontaneously.

Actually, my negative reaction to the preschool section was not just that it included learning the alphabet and other academic type work, but that it didn't include the wealth of things that I believe are more important for preschoolers--texture play, fantasy play, practical life skills, building/making/creating things, movement, learning about the world through seeing and experiencing it, talking through problems/emotions/plans for achieving an end, rhymes/fingerplays/stories/songs (she does mention these, I think), working with sounds apart from letter names, stuff like that. I tend to have a strong, perhaps overly strong, reaction to any suggestion that learning for preschoolers is about naming and writing letters, numbers, etc.

Sherri

[I Believe in Fairies]

I have the book "Slow and Steady, Get Me Ready" on order because they recommend it. I've heard good things about it.

I was very into Waldorf before this so we have a wealth of fantasy play and open ended toys. I do think that it was lacking in saying kids can just play and that is their work. I'll see if this other book makes up for that.

The thing I *don't* like so far is all the worksheets. I don't think worksheets translate into real life learning. That and I think drilling and learning are mutually exclusive. They do have a good point that you do *have* to memorize some information and I'll have to play that one by ear.

The website is a good resource! They have a realistic "day in the life of" and an explanation for all the schedules in the book.

Mmmm, too early yo post for my brain. I hope this makes sense!

[TaylorMade]

We are in our 2nd year of using TWTM. We love it, and are lucky enough to have a small group comprised of same-ages children who also use it. We meet 1x a week, and do fun projects, etc. based on topics from TWTM.

There is a Yahoo group for TWTM that is very helpful. It is neat to see the wide array of ways that people implement it. I like that it gives me a structure, but the "how" is very flexible.

LeAnn

[Linda in Arizona]

<<my negative reaction to the preschool section was not just that it included learning the alphabet and other academic type work, but that it didn't include the wealth of things that I believe are more important for preschoolers>>

YES!!!!

[SRHS]

I recently read TWTM and loved it, though I think many would find the task daunting. I have decided to "use" their outline and supplement and delete as I feel is appropriate for our family. My older son is learning to read, but certainly could not read for meaning, and unlessI misread something, I think TWTM requires parents to do a lot of read aloud with the kids. My son does "spelling" out of his phonetic readers, which are the only books he reads, the rest, I read to him (history, literature). One of the main points is for kids to hear good liturature and good use of the English Language. I am not doing Latin because right now we live in Turkey, so we learn Turkish. When we move in 13 months, we will learn then next country's language instead-something applicable to our life. I can't see my son making the relation between latin roots and how he uses the English Language!!! I also have a 2 year old who is learning a lot of the ABC's, numbers and sounds just from being exposed to the phonics songs we sing with big brother. Big brother learned to read fairly easily on the second try. We tried when he was 5 and he wasn't ready, so we put it away for about 6 months and when we got it out, he breezed through it, so I certainly think there is a developmental readiness to reading. I reccommend reading the book and adapting it to fit your lifestyle and your child's learning style. Just like everything else out there.

What didn't you like about Waldorf? I have been trying to find out exactly what their philosophy is, but can't find that info.

Thanks