No longer allowed to nurse son at daycare during pick-up (in front of other children) - Page 3

[lactationmom]

it amazes me how much discrimination there still is.


be a 'rosa parks' and make some kind of stand. you aren't doing ANYTHING wrong, but THEY are being harrasing and YOU are being discriminated against.why is it ok for one mom to feed her baby one way but not for another? what if you were really obese and someone said for you to eat in the car because you were offensive to them? or really thin? or beautiful and they were jealous so they discriminated? or black? or old? or pink and purple w/ boogers hanging out your nose? or...you get the point. get a lawyer to draw up a paper mentioning harrassment, discrimination, etc and make copies.

i'm feeling onrey.


sue them all (its always my answer, just sue someone over discrimination and things will change DRAMATICALLY).

[smirlynwittles]

Here is an article from a local newspaper from some time back regarding a similar issue...

http://www.freep.com/news/childrenfi...4_20030204.htm

I finally got a response from one LLL leader:

Dear Amy,
Wow, you are facing a lot of challenges! So many people in your life already give you a hard time about breastfeeding, and now this. But bravo to you for your dedication to nurse your babies - especially for extended periods of time. Woo hoo!

Regarding your questions, I'm not sure what legal rights you have. This is a private day care, right? Hmmm... Check out this link below regarding legal rights for breastfeeding moms in Michigan.

http://www.usbreastfeeding.org/Issue...ation-2004.pdf

Basically Michigan law doesn’t state that it is a mothers’ right nor does it state that breastfeeding is allowed anywhere publicly or privately (it just references public spaces) . Your best option might be to try to get someone to write an article on this, or maybe write a letter to the editor of the News or Free Press yourself.

As La Leche League leaders, we cannot organize a protest of any sort. As a private citizen and angered mom, you are of course welcome to bring some nursing friends if that's the course of action you want to take. And, my co-Leaders and I have lots of information - handouts, pamphlets, etc. - about breastfeeding that you might want to pass on to your daycare provider in hopes of enlightening her.

I just want November to pass quickly...

[Irishmommy]

Would it be possible to sit at the sitters at pickup time and speak to the parents yourself, and ask them if they have a problem with it and why. I don't think you have anything to lose by doing so.

[courtenay_e]

Okay. I am an idealist, and I have calmed down a little since I first read your post yesterday. As you have only a few weeks left with this care provider, I would ask her how serious her other parents are...are they going to quit if they see you nurse again? You could ask them for a compromise. As you are simply nourishing your baby, would they be willing to put up with it for three more weeks since you're leaving then anyway. She's already bowed to the pressure to have a written No NIP policy anyhow...would they take that as a "win" on their part and just leave you in peace for the next few weeks? Also, my mom is convinced that she is just as uncomfortable about the nursing thing as the "other parents" unnamed though they may remain. She feels this way because she's willing to give you the ultimatum, though you're going to be there for such a short time. Anyway. Good luck. No easy choices here, that's for sure. I will write to our political leadership, too. I also have a friend who's friends with a local newscaster. THis newscaster has already told us that their station didn't consider this kind of thing to be news...but that was before the big Barbara Walters hoo-ha. So, we'll see what they say now...not to make waves at your daycare in partic., but in Mich in general. It's time for things to change.

[Janice in Canada]

Okay, I didn't read everything in detail, but I've got the gist.

1.) you are doing nothing wrong, and you don't need permission to do it. Don't be asking for permission, from the daycare provider, or the other parents. you won't get it.

2.) If I were you, I'd just continue bfing at pick-up, the way you were before your complaint. As far as the other parents seeing you, too bad. they could pull their kids. They cannot hurt you or your kids. They have no power over you. I wouldn't waste my time trying to educate them. Its not your job to try to convince them that breastfeeding is best, they obviously have made their decisions, and are close minded. Especially if they have not approached you directly.

Why are you worried about your old provider so much? She is a professional, running a business. I assume there are sometimes other conflicts between parents, that she has to work through. She needs to grow up and figure out a solution that works for all parties. Unless she has a policy that says you can't linger while picking up your kid (ie you just get them and get out of the door), what you do with your child is none of her business.

You say you don't want to hurt your provider, because she treated your child so well? Is denying your child to breastfeed, because of the feelings of other adults, treating your child well? If you are leaving soon, don't worry about her. And if you are worrying that her care of your child will decrease if you don't do what she asks, then she is not very responsible or professional, and you should leave sooner.

Is she threatening to kick you out of her daycare if you don't stop? What is her leverage over you? If she is simply *asking* you, then then is a time for you to not worry about being "nice", but to stand up for your child's rights, and for every child's rights. If you think she will kick you out, then sometimes you need to let things play out to the end - then you will have a case.

Maybe I am missing something here, but I can't see why you don't just keep nursing in the manner that you have, while you are still there - and who cares what the others think???? They really have no power to force you to change your behavior.

Janice

[smirlynwittles]

She claims that she called the state, who said I have no legal rights protecting me. She said he left his name, number, and address if I have questions. I'll try to get that when I pick up this evening. And I'll try to get a copy of the anti-nip policy if I can before we leave for good.

If I had a year to go, I'd fight her and the other parents like mad. After all, my son was there first! Only one child remains who started before my son.
We had planned on taking my son out as soon as he could start Montessori (at around 15 to 18 mo) from the day he was born. I knew I would eventually have issues at any daycare regarding the views of the other parents with regards to nutrition, television, etc. He had colic and reflux, and she had the patience to help him through without loading him with meds or just giving him a pacifier (we never provided one and he wasn't a thumb-sucker).

She tries to tell me that I don't have to leave, but she (and I'm sure the other parents) don't realize that they have now created a very hostile/unsupportive environment.

I pointed out to her that she has another mom coming who bfed her previous son, but she says that this mom said she always did it discreetly (probably hiding in a different room). That was when she decided she needed to come up with a policy to protect herself.

She also tried to compare me bfing to her spreading her legs in front of the kids.

If I just had real proof in my hot little hands that I'm protected, then I'll tell her to shove it.

I tried explaining the federal and state legislation to protest bfing, but she claims it doesn't protect me in MI.

Not even the LLL leaders here have given me good solid support (because LLL doesn't allow them or such). This is why I haven't gotten too involved with LLL. They help if you have trouble bfing, but not if you have trouble with harrasment at work (yes, I got that one too) or daycare, or elsewhere.

I just need a break! I really don't want to waste energy fighting to stay somewhere that I'm leaving. However, I want to fight like mad to fight others.

On an earlier post, one mom considered this home daycare to be too small of a fish to fry... It would be different if it was a large corporate daycare center or something. KWIM?

[Fiercemama]

Sounds to me like your LLL leaders need to get in touch with their local PL Dept (Professional Liason, which assists leaders to help mothers with legal and medical issues).

Your letter to your local rep was outstanding. Be fierce (in the best possible way!).

[Janice in Canada]

Originally Posted by smirlynwittles

She claims that she called the state, who said I have no legal rights protecting me. She said he left his name, number, and address if I have questions. I'll try to get that when I pick up this evening. And I'll try to get a copy of the anti-nip policy if I can before we leave for good.

So you are not "protected" - ie there is no law saying "bfing is protected". But there also are no laws that say "you are allowed to hug your child", or "you are allowed to kiss your child".

I think you really need her to clarify - what is she going to do if you don't stop? Is she going to call police, is she going to refuse your child one day? What???

I don't have children in daycare - is that what daycare providers do - can they just "fire" a child, just on a whim? Is that what you are really afraid will happen?

This is what is confusing, and frustrating about our legal system - and discrimination. A case really needs to be taken to that level - you can't complain about discrimination, if someone just talks about it, and then you move. The *thing* actually has to happen, before a case can be made.

So in your case, you could just keep nursing and ignore everyone. *IF* she kicks your kid out of daycare (which I seriously doubt would happen - she wants your money, too, and that would be a BIG step for her, too, wouldn't it be?) THEN you have a clear case to take to politicians, and to the media. THEN I can guarantee they will be interested.

Also, whatever happens, you need to document conversations and such, as best you can, even now, even though its been days/weeks since these happened. You never know where things will lead, and you need to have notes to back up what was said.

As for LLL, they will not help you with legal stuff. That is a common misconception. They exist to provide mother-to-mother bfing support. There are doing a bit more advocacy these days, but that is NOT their primary role, and that's okay. That's why moms are doing it for themselves, through boards like this.

so I'm not saying you need to fight it right now. You don't have to do ANYTHING - but just continuing to nurse when you pick him up, is enough. How are they physically going to stop you? I can guarantee that the police won't want to come pick you up - and if they do, you'll really have a media story!

Janice

[psyche]

Is an evening LLL meeting coming up? The Leaders' hands are a bit tied by organizational rules (mother-to-mother support, no politics), but the general people attending meetings might have ideas, be willing to write to state legislators, casually stroll by the daycare while nursing babies, etc. That would probably have to be a topic after the general meeting discussion.

: The situation makes me very upset.

[celrae]

smirlynwittles- wrote

I pointed out to her that she has another mom coming who bfed her previous son, but she says that this mom said she always did it discreetly (probably hiding in a different room). That was when she decided she needed to come up with a policy to protect herself.

She also tried to compare me bfing to her spreading her legs in front of the kids.

Her analogy is very offensive and it would have upset me. It is crazy that people sexualized bf'ing, I don't understand. I have seen a lot of bf'ing mama's and the thought "oh what nice boobs or cute nipples" has never crossed my mind.

Thanks for keeping us updated and we are all supporting you %100.

[Meiri]

1)You have the right to feed your baby anyplace you have the right to be, whether that state has passed a law to make that clear to the resident idiots or no
.
2)The only exceptions made in any of the laws I've read is in someone's private home.

3)As this is private home daycare, seems to me that the owner sets the policy. Seems to me she's shown her true colors by that new policy line. In other words, IMO the hugs and sympathy were a lie.

4)How difficult is finding daycare in your area? Is it really likely that all those families would pull their children if they *gasp* saw a baby being fed? Because if it's that easy to find care that you'd pull your child over that, then it shouldn't be that difficult to find care without the caca del toro of a written policy that child may not be breastfed on the premises or in front of other children. Either way, she loses.

[MamaChel]

In the state of Michigan a woman can breastfeed anywhere her and her child are allowed to be. Let me find the link...

[Irishmommy]

Originally Posted by Meiri

1)You have the right to feed your baby anyplace you have the right to be, whether that state has passed a law to make that clear to the resident idiots or no
.
2)The only exceptions made in any of the laws I've read is in someone's private home.

But with this particular private home also being a place of business (ie. public), does (1) overrule (2)?

[MamaChel]

Ok, you got some good information. I'm game for a nurse in with my 2 toddlers and my big old preggo self.

The gist of it is that you are doing nothing illegal. The only thing she could try to "get" you on is public indecency and breastfeeding IS exempt from those laws in MI. If she is saying that your breastfeeding your child is offensive, that would fall under the public indecency laws in my (non-legal) opinion. No where does it say that you cannot breastfeed, all she can do is ask you to stop, unless she's really willing to charge you with public indecency, what is she going to do?

I'm confrontational though and once told a bossy lady in the tax line to go eat her lunch on the nasty toilet since she was so sure that was the proper place to eat.

[smirlynwittles]

Ok, the name of the guy she talked to at the state who told her I have no rights is Bill Puumala. I'm not sure of his role or address, but she said he is in Lansing (And to be prepared for an earful that I have no rights!).

Also, one of the assistants at daycare said that there was a good article in Glamour (when they had a nurse-in outside "The View").

It looks like Gabe will be clear to start 4 days a week after Thanksgiving, and full time in Jan.

FOP evening LLL meetings are the 1st Tues of the month at 7pm. There are enrichment meetings on I belive the 3rd Tues of the month at 7pm, although there weren't too many people the one time I tried it. I know there is a FREEP article (I think I posted a link earlier) where one of the leaders from the group was asked to leave a mall in Macomb county.

[lactationmom]

this day care lady has contacted public officials....yeah....she is sympathetic-NOT.

she sounds like she is starting to 'protect' herself in case you sue.


sue. there it is again. i like that word (i'm totally kidding, although i am waiting for the day for someone to do this to me so i can scream SUE!!!)

[smirlynwittles]

Ok, here is the contact info for the guy she called (checked her license online):

William H. Puumala, Licensing Consultant
Office of Children and Adult Licensing
XXXXX

For now, I'd be up for a letter writing campaign but would like some more specific legal ammo to fire at this guy.

I could see doing a nurse-in (December at the earliest). However, I don't think it will do much good to be in front of a home on a side street in Royal Oak. I think a city or state facility would be better.

Anyways for now, I really need to get back to paying attention to my family and concentrating on my job while I'm at work. And getting the contract signed at the Montessori school.

I'm not so good at this since I really have never actively protested anything.

Thanks for your support.

[Mamapits]

Hi Mama,
I think you are doing a great job!


It has been said a few times but I want to say it again. DC provider does not feel comfortable w/ you nursing!!! She did give your child good care at one time but she no longer is!

Don't buy that whole she feels so bad she doesn't know how to tell you thing.

You really are handleing this well.

who do we write to? What exactly does the office of liscensing do? Why is he an expert on the rights of a nursing Mother?

[Thursday Girl]

Originally Posted by skana

I think it's totally outrageous. You should demand they outlaw parents giving children bottles at the day care -- tell the operators you find that offensive! We're all rooting for you -- hope there's a satisfactory outcome.

)

yeah that!! i can't be;iev that it's outragoues. i hate to see kids bottle fed but i don't demand parents stop. gosh this pisses me off, i can't believ it's happening to you. and so young. hugs mama.

[swtladyfare]

Originally Posted by smirlynwittles

She also tried to compare me bfing to her spreading her legs in front of the kids.

Oh. Well in that case if your breast is just like genitalia that makes bottles just like Dildos!! After all a dildo is just a fake penis, and a bottle is just a fake breast. I would really let the other parents know (close to the date I leave) how disgusting I find them for allowing their children to use those in front of people, after all I'm sure they'd be more comfortable in the restroom.

In the mean time, how about some nice Onsies that say things like "Why do you think my dinner is sexual?" or "If you think nursing is sexy take 10 steps back"