is it delivery? ...or is it birth? - Page 4

[MonicaS]

Originally Posted by funshine

I gave birth.

A physician attended the birth of my child.

My baby was not "delivered", nor was I "delivered" from anything. It really bothers me to hear that word used. To me it reflects soooo many negative and misinformed ideas that our society has about birth.

I can understand that feeling of not having given birth. I have occasionally said that Griffin was extracted from me because I don't feel that I gave birth to him. But that MD did not deliver me from anything, she put me in a traumatic situation that should not have happened. If anything, she delivered me into pain and suffering and self-doubt.

I totally, 100% agree w/ this. My 1st DD was born via c/s, but I did not birth her in any way, shape, or form...as far as I'm concerned about my situation.

If a mother wants to consider her c/s(s) as birthing, I have no problem w/ that. It is up to her how she perceives it.

It is also a pet peeve of mine to hear, "So-and-so delivered my baby," or "I delivered my baby at..." I always say, "She was born at hosp/home." or "Dr. E/My MW caught her." (depending on which child we are talking about) I don't really find myself referring to "birthing" in conversation, though. For instance, I don't think I've ever said, "I birthed her at _____." Come to think of it, when talking about my 3rd baby, I usually say, "I had her at home." (It should be obvious that it was unmedicated and vaginal, but some people do still wonder how you had an epidural at home.) For my 2nd DD, first VBAC, I say, "I had a VBAC at ___ Hosp."
Did I ramble OT enough?

[AngelBee]

Birth.

[boston]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

What I really mean, I think, is that calling my c-sections "giving birth" to me completely dismisses my loss of that experience. It's like everyone wants to tell me I had the experience when I didn't, so they can sweep my pain and anger under the carpet and pretend it's not there. "Oh, yeah - surgery sucks, but you still gave birth. So shut up, already."

Ok I totally get this feeling. I've had it too, just under different circumstances. Like when I told people that I was suffering from PPD they'd say "but you still got this wonderful baby so everything is fine." And I'd feel like they are completely refusing to see me. I felt invisible. My pain was nonexistant because they didn't recognise it.

The thing is, you can't expect people to not call your csection a birth. Some births really suck. They are still births, though. Sometimes we have traumatic, tragic births that haunt us or even ruin our lives. That's the reality of birth sometimes. It sounds like you are narrowly defining birth in a way that the rest of us don't define it. For you (I'm guessing) it is a positive non-emotionally traumatizing thing. Like what our midwives show us of the happy chilli-eating family in Peru or whever, and the couple dances together while she's in transition and then they all get in the tub together and have the baby. That might be birth for them. But it wasnt for me. For me birth was agony and left me grieving a loss I couldn't identify.

Storm Bride, good luck to you in your healing process. It sounds like you are grieving and I'm really sorry. Been there, done that.

[Storm Bride]

...trauma & tragedy are something that I accept as part of birth. And, as I've said, I'm not bothered by the fact that othe rwomen think of it as "c-birth". I don't...I doubt I ever will. Mind you, from what little I know of epidurals, I'm not sure I'd feel that I'd given birth if I had an epi, either. (I could be wrong, as I've only had general anesthetic and spinals - I'm not really sure how an epi feels.) A "birth" in which I have to be told when it starts, because I can't even feel it, a "birth" in which my only possible involvement is to be as still as I can and try not to panic...it's just not a birth to me at all.

I also have trouble responding to "congratulations". Congratulations for what? It's not like I actually did anythging.

NAK

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by boston

The thing is, you can't expect people to not call your csection a birth. Some births really suck. They are still births, though. Sometimes we have traumatic, tragic births that haunt us or even ruin our lives. That's the reality of birth sometimes. It sounds like you are narrowly defining birth in a way that the rest of us don't define it.

I don't think that's what she's doing-- I think that she's defining her own experience, and how she'd like it treated. If someone randomly asked her, "How was your child born" and she explained that her child was "born" through surgery and she didn't really like to think of it as a birth, it would be very callous for that person to continue to refer to her experience as "birth." She's not saying that no woman who's had a c-section has given birth, she's saying that she hasn't. Maybe in her situation, you would call what happened birth but she doesn't, and she's totally got that right. There are people who refer to their birth experiences with terms like "rape;" I can't imagine associating your new baby with something like that in any way, but I can't tell those women that that's not how they felt-- violated and overwhelmed. It's not my experience (thank God) but it would be wrong for me to try to minimize their experiences by saying that they're using the wrong words to describe them.

[georgia]

I voted birth, but I find that I usually say I *had* my first baby (pitocin, epidural and almost every intervention ) but I say I birthed my next two (at home). I feel completely disengaged and disconnected from my epidural experience. It was traumatic and completely disempowering at the time (and for quite awhile after, too). To say I "birthed" my first, for me at least, rings false, as I sit here tonight

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

There are people who refer to their birth experiences with terms like "rape;" I can't imagine associating your new baby with something like that in any way, but I can't tell those women that that's not how they felt-- violated and overwhelmed.

I used to do that, too. I've been consciously avoiding it since someone on here posted that she'd been raped and it bothered her to see that. As I haven't been, I avoid the comparison now.

I can say that I've been molested as a small child and as a preteen. And, I'd be back in that closet getting felt up by a 50-something-year-old pervert in a split second if it would mean I'd never have to have a section...no hesitation.

[courtenay_e]

Definately birth/birthed. Although...my SIL was "tired of being pregnant" with her first, and her quality OB agreed to induce a perfectly normal healthy pregnancy at 37 1/2 weeks. The induction started w/the insertion of an epidural and ended in c-section an hour later due to immediate fetal distress. The baby then ended up in NICU for a week after swallowing meconium (because of the induction...), and was in a hospital that was 45 miles from the one the mom was in, recovering from her section. I consider that a delivery. It was a disaster from the beginning. Nobody in the picture (except the baby!) WANTED a "birth" experience. Had a scheduled c for the next one. *sigh*

[ruby slippers]

I voted for birth, even though it was a cesarean.

[Peppamint]

I voted birth...

There's ads on the shopping carts in town and there's one for a local doctor... he's an old guy and it says something like "Delivered over 10,000 babies in Lawrence County" and it makes me wanna puke. He's a man, he's never been pregnant and never given birth. Some of these moms he sliced through their abdomen, many of them he cut their perineums or pulled their babies out but he hasn't "delivered" any babies IMO!

[boston]

I guess I don't understand what storm bride and others are saying. It's not you, though, it's me, I'm sure. Anyway I am sorry ppl feel so bad about their births, generally speaking. I definitely can understand that part of what you're saying. Because every time I think about my dd's birth I feel sad. 4 years later.

[stafl]

I have been raped. My cesarean was ten times more traumatic for me. At least when I was raped nobody justified what my abuser did, or tell me it was for my own good. In no way did I give birth to my oldest daughter. Sure, she was born, but I had nothing to do with the process. The word "birth" implies action, I was just laying there all drugged up with tears running down my face the entire time.

I don't like it when a doctor says he "delivered" someone's baby. Because really, moms don't usually need any help having babies.

so I didn't vote. I don't think either term applies. I think it should be left to each woman to decide what terms she wants to use when discussing her own experiences. Generally, I refer to my experiences as "my cesarean" and "my vbac" instead.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by stafl

Sure, she was born, but I had nothing to do with the process. The word "birth" implies action, I was just laying there all drugged up with tears running down my face the entire time.

As usual, stafl said it a lot better than I could.