If you're NOT unschooling... - Page 12

[Arwyn]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

Arwyn-- try "education outside of the school system and self identification as a homeschooler or home educator."

Works for me! Thanks.

[Charles Baudelaire]

Originally Posted by Arwyn

Psst, Charles: it's ArwYn. Like the Elven princess, but not.

Whoops! So sorry! Thanks for the heads-up.

Yup, yup, yup! Although, as someone here pointed out, many don't identify as the "primary educator" - generally unschoolers. Perhaps "person responsible for the educational choices of the child, including the choice to allow the child to make all the choices about their education"? Anyway, we can quibble over the wording, but I agree with the, ahem!, intent behind what you say.[/QUOTE]

Whew! Thanks!

[lilyka]

ummm, there are people who are on this forum who have not started homescholing or hacve barely started and are still just experimenting with thier options. who are just playing around with it and giving it a test drive before school actualy starts. w ho haven't made up there mind and are just seeing if they can teach thier child. That doesn't make them les atentive attatched parents. It makes them smart parents who aren't ruishing into anything. I can dig that. and I do not consider teaching your preschooler to be anything other than perental obligation. It is what parents of preschoolers do with thier children. anything less is neglectful and lazy. Even if your child is in an accredited preschool (play school really. even the most accademic preschools are really just grooming them for schol and letting them play with cool toys) it is still teh parents responsibility to teach them nd prep them forschool and set a good foundation for learnign and growing. And regardless of how old a persons child is I do take thier advice with a grain of salt (if i take it all) if they don't have much experiance or if thier child isn't officially homeschooling during the school year (because some just homeschool during the summer and afterschool and holidays of course) or whatever. I thought I knew a lot about homeschooling 6 years ago when I started with my child. Looking back I can see that I didn't have a clue. but I was more than happy to declare how I did it and how it ought to be done I played homeschooling with my first child (like i said in my original post) we did little worksheets and I taught her to read, basic math. She was genuinely way ahead. and before that did the requisite numbers and colors and shapes etc . . . but none of it matters because she would have learned it all in good time and been right on par for her age regardless. which is exactly where she is now by the way. right on par with her peers.

I don't see what the big freaking deal is. I have a baby who is almost three. She dos accademic stuff occaisionaly for variious reasons. She is a child in a homeschooling family. there is no doubt in my mind she will be homeschooled. None of that makes her a homeschooler. That makes her a kid with an attentive mommy who follows her lead. And she will have a god foundation in 3 years, when it is time to decide, regardless of what we choose and what changes between then and now. Nothing we have done will have been wasted. but none of it makes her a homeschooler. It makes her a baby in a rich environment (yah I know she has probably worn out the baby title. leave me be )

what about people who have one in PS and one registered as a HS? what are they? homeschoolers or PS? what if the one at home is a pre-schooler instead of a registered homeschooler but thier mom teaches them schooly stuff? are they still homeschooled?

Call yourself whatever you want. I don't see what diference my opinion (or anyone elses) about what makes someone else a homeschooler matter in the long run. I don't care what other people call what we do. I don't need others to validate me or my parenting or my interactions with my children. It doesn't make me feel better about what I do with my children if they call it schooling or not. whatever And I just don't see why it is such a big deal what I think about other people and weather or not they are officially homeschooling. who cares?

[UUMom]

Originally Posted by lilyka

Call yourself whatever you want. I don't see what diference my opinion (or anyone elses) about what makes someone else a homeschooler matter in the long run.

Exactly.

I think it's that people with small children were calling themselves hsers without issue, but this thread had people telling them they were not. i don't get at all, and I;ve tried. There are people on both sides whom I admire much.

Seriosuly. Does it really matter to people how others identify? if not, why bother debating it? Clearly there is something bothering folks of older hsers.

I just cannot figure why people feel any need whatsoever to tell families with 'prescoolers' that they are not hsers.

I admit, I don't get it. You can quote me, even.

Of course, I'm not a ''good' hser, as I have a couple of kids and in school-- and all.

I recognize we aren't really purely *anything* but us.

I would never bother telling anyone they aren't what they feel themselves to be.

Even S Dodd has written a book on hsing preschoolers.

[zonapellucida]

Feels too unstructured to me. I want to make sure my kids are reaching certian milestones and unless I burn a fire under their butts they would do nothing!! That may chnge but for right now classical is what works for us.

[Arwyn]

Hey, cool, a post on the OT!

[SunRayeMomi]

[warriorprincess]

My reasons:

I believe my greater scope of life experience gives me a better idea of what is needed to get by in the world. This includes the ability to get into college. Even if my kids choose not to go to college, they will be prepared if they change their minds. I don't think the average child has any clue what kind of education is required to make a good living, and therefore the decisions about what to learn cannot be well informed.

I highly value proper grammar and the ability to write clearly.

The idea of my child not reading by, say, 7 or 8, disturbs me greatly. Even as a homeschooler, I would seek help if my child were not reading by 7.

WE need the structure, especially since we live in an area where it rains quite a bit.

[UlrikeDG]

Originally Posted by warriorprincess

I highly value proper grammar and the ability to write clearly.

My unschooled 7 year old uses the word "whom" properly.

[Arwyn]

Yea, and my PhD dad doesn't.

I will say, though, that my senior year honors english class in high school did SO MUCH to help with my essay writing ability.

However, that's the ONLY class that did ever help my writing. I started writing when I was 12, not because school told me to, but because I wanted to, and I went from hating (and I do mean LOATHING) to write to never going anywhere without my journal. The only thing I lost from that "late" discovery of the joy of the written word (although I /could/ write beforehand, I just /didn't/ unless /forced/) was good handwriting.

Even that I improved on my own initiative when I was 16-17. It's now legible.

Of course, none of this is to denegrate a more stuctured learning environment, just to point out that even within school (which I was), I didn't learn things like spelling or good writing until I was good and ready - and then hoo boy did I.

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by Arwyn

I started writing when I was 12, not because school told me to, but because I wanted to, and I went from hating (and I do mean LOATHING) to write to never going anywhere without my journal. The only thing I lost from that "late" discovery of the joy of the written word (although I /could/ write beforehand, I just /didn't/ unless /forced/) was good handwriting.

Even that I improved on my own initiative when I was 16-17. It's now legible.

Of course, none of this is to denegrate a more stuctured learning environment, just to point out that even within school (which I was), I didn't learn things like spelling or good writing until I was good and ready - and then hoo boy did I.

The question I have is, do you actually equate "school" with "structured learning environment?" What you're saying makes perfect sense to me as an explanation and rationalization for home education-- that even in an ostensibly structured environment, you failed to learn certain things until you were ready to learn them. When your child is at home, they can do that regardless of your personal methodology; if you're using a classical curriculum and your child isn't ready for step B, you can keep doing step A until they are ready. Better still, you can address the issues that are preventing them from moving on and help your child work through them, which will help them not only get to step B but to C and D and so forth.

What I don't see is why something like this might necessarily lead one to believe that unschooling is the only reasonable way to go. I don't see any contradiction, I can see why someone would just say "let's keep kids out of school entirely," but I can't say that, for me, radical unschooling is the inevitable result of such a decision.

I've just started reading "Guerrilla Learning," and I have yet to read anything I disagree with, nor anything that is incompatible with classical education at home. Maybe that's in the next chapter?

[FireWithin]

Originally Posted by Karenwith4

And what does this say about those homeschoolers who believe there is no definition between the two activities of playing and learning? Again, I don't think that you can define homeschooling in this way with any clarity without excluding large components of homeschoolers (unschoolers specifically).
karen

I don't think you can define homeschooling based on age either. . . . never mind, already discussed a great deal.

Also, after Arywn's long, clear response, I feel less of a need to make a comment.
thanks Arywn

[Arwyn]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

The question I have is, do you actually equate "school" with "structured learning environment?"

I think the point of school is (nominally, at least) to provide a structured learning environment.

Originally Posted by eilonwy

What I don't see is why something like this might necessarily lead one to believe that unschooling is the only reasonable way to go. I don't see any contradiction, I can see why someone would just say "let's keep kids out of school entirely," but I can't say that, for me, radical unschooling is the inevitable result of such a decision.

It doesn't, and it isn't. I'm generally a supporter of unschooling, because I've seen it in my own life (it took a couple years out of highschool to "deschool", and now I'm self-motivated once again), but I'm not diehard about it (I don't even have kids of my own yet to experiment on!), and I'm always in favor of mellow, individualized approaches. I just wanted to point out that learning things like grammer or proper writing aren't inevitable byproducts of a "structured learning environment" nor are they inaccessable without structure. I think it likely that such structure can squish some kids' desire and ability to learn it, and I think such structure can provide the only space in which other kids will be able to flourish so.

The only thing I'm radically against is lock-step "teaching" and the only thing I'm radically for is personalization. Oh, and I'm also radically in favor of moderation. But that's just me.

[Arwyn]

Originally Posted by Mammo2Sammo

Also, after Arywn's long, clear response, I feel less of a need to make a comment.
thanks Arywn

Awww! You're welcome!