Causes of Decay and Prevention - Page 4

[Mammachi]

WOW!

Thanks Campo Mama for all of the great info. I really appreciate your approach with alternative healing modalities. We really like to be pro-active and as natural as possible with healing. Thank you thank you thank you! I will be trying a lot of what you suggested.

And as far as an electric toothbrush- no luck with that either. He hates anything motorized, let alone putting it in his mouth.

I haven't gotten a dentist selected yet. Still working up the courage to make some calls.

I appreciate any and all info. I do hope smilemama may have some time to offer some info. I would really like some info from a dentist's perspective. Thanks again mamas so much. You have no idea how grateful I am for all of your help. I don't know what I would do without this resource!

[bluemoon]

You will get through this!!!

We are right along with you in the same boat.chipped teeth and State insurance. It had almost been a year since we first noticed the decay. It took us from august till february to finally see the dentist her insurance would take. One dentist for one whole county only working on mondays.We actually paid for a dentist visit with one place. then I started calling other dentists and alot would see us for free for a second opinion. They were and are still traumatic for our dd.

Our dd was very stubborn about the whole toothbrushing and I thought eventually she would give in. MOnths past and it just got worse. I felt awful and would cry over holding her down. My psychology teacher gave me some good advice on shaping her behavior to get her to like toothbrushing. It semi helped but I didn't stick with it. But what you do is start small and reward and praise for maybe just holding the toothbrush. and ever so slowly work up to you holding the toothbrush too. maybe by just having the hand on his shoulder. we also used a timer and I would set it for one minute and when it dinged we were done. She loved this most of the time.Then I lengthened the time.

But you know what worked the best... time it self. Now in the morning (most but not all yet) she opens her mouth and lets me brush, but she needs control over it. She tells me to brush then she does alittle then back to me then maybe dad does it. Finallly at two she has decided to cooperate! So hang in there, and remember you are doing the best that you can. Good luck with your dentist search.

[SquirelNutkin]

This was offered as an idea to combat night nursing cavities in a post awhile back.
It was an idea that another mother came up with- so there is no right way or wrong way to go about it.
I used this method bec. the usual whiping down the mouth with a soft cloth after a night nursing just woke my child up to nurse more! I assume the cloth method work better at getting the germs off, but if you find yourself in the same situation as I did- then, you may want to resort to this. I would also wipe off your childs teeth after they eat while awake. Using the cloth as a wipe down also gets your child familar with you messing with their teeth. An important first step to tooth brushign.
I found no info on tea tree ingestion being a problem- but nothign that said it was OK, too.
It may not be the best cavitity fighter bec. there are several type of bacteria that cause cavities. Again, I found no info on what kind of bacteria it actaully kills in the mouth.
Jasons has a rand of toothpaste with tea tree, and another company has a mouth wash- Dessert Flower or something (at least the desert part is right.)
Anyhow, good luck.
b

[boobykinmamma]

I'm sorry you're dealing with dental problems. A few months ago we noticed what appeared to be decay on our 2 yr old ds's molar. We took him to a pediatric dentist--who was WONDERFUL, by the way--and it turned out to be a stain. We had started brushing with flouride toothpaste (Tom's of Maine Silly Strawberry) around the time we saw the "decay," and are now brushing 2-3 times daily, no matter what. The dentist said ds's teeth look good and strong, and just to watch the stain and keep brushing. DS hates brushing most of the time. We have to hold him down to get it done--tried every way possible to make it more fun, but nothing worked for more than a day or two. As Smilemamma has said in earlier posts, it's like with diaper changing--a toddler may fight it, but it has to be done for their health. I would rather ds cry for the minute or two his teeth or brushed than be strapped down, sedated, or put under general anaensthesia for a much longer time period--not to mention the cost!. I tell him I'm doing it because I love him and want him to have healthy teeth. I think major dental work done by someone a child barely knows or doesn't know at all is much more traumatic than a few minutes of tooth brushing.

[KnittingMommy]

Oh my goodness, this sounds so stressful! My little one also would have a very difficult time with the invasive nature of dentistry and we haven't yet visited one. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that everything's ok in there.

FYI, our LLL leader told me that, though she has followed the same practices with all three of her kids (including night nursing and healthy eating) only the middle one had any dental problems. So it probably isn't anything you are doing but more the unique chemistry of his mouth or whatever.

I don't have any advice about dealing with the dentist situation (though there has been some great advice offered in other posts that I will refer back to myself if we ever have anything similar), but wanted to pass on what has hooked my ds on brushing. He loves, among other things, the car wash, chainsaws, and lawn mowers. So I make up a narrative, for example, the toothbrush is a car going through the car wash and I tell him each step of the process..."the car is on the track, it's moving forward, it's going into the brushes, they're spinning around and around, foam is spraying onto the car...." You get the picture. He loves it, loves it.

So those particular things might not work for your son, but maybe he likes bunnies, for example: "The toothbrush is a little bunny hopping into your mouth, blah, blah, blah...

Of course you may have already tried this! Best of luck to you!

[truly_sarah]

Hi...I think if you search the archives here you will find lots of info and other people who have experienced this with their children. What's done is done...I do think genetically some children are predisposed to dental caries. I think a pediatric dentist is a good idea, a great place to start. But you might also search around for a dentist who shares your philosophy. Not all dentists are pro-tooth-sealant, for instance. You must feel terrible for your little one. When I lived overseas, I used to see children with absolutely BLACK teeth, no kidding. There was little or no dentistry where I lived. I am sort of lax on brushing here with my little one...he has a toothbrush and he swishes it around and chews on it, mostly for teething or to copy what we are doing.

I've heard that giving the kid a piece of hard cheese or a cut up apple to eat before bedtime (maybe before brushing) can help somewhat with the bacteria in the mouth and on the teeth that cause the decay. But I don't quite remember the science behind it.

I do know that raisins and things like fig newtons are supposed to be bad for the teeth and are suggested only in limited quantities...I would imagine it's the same for other dried fruits.

Sarah

[violeta8]

well, I bought ds a toothbrush (electric) shaped like a rocket so that may help!
i just am not sure what happens next ya know? i checked the archives but didn't see much about holes...
i dont know what the options are, especially what NOT to do, that a dr. may try to push on us...
any reccomendations for getting more responses or other places to seek out info..im lost here!
alicia

[milesmom]

Hi. My son has same issue. We went to two dentists and have decided (insisted) on holding off on treatment, brushing diligently (no flouride) and going in for check-ups every 2-3 months. I will not do dental owrk that requires sedation unless his health is threatened. We are trying to wait until he is able to understand and cooperate. You must get a clear answer on how timely treatment is for health NOT appearance. Just my opinion, especially reading some nightmare posts about sedation/anesthesia.

Good Luck


* It took us a long time to figure out a "hook" for getting our son to brush. I hate to manipulate but this is one you've got to push. Just keep trying to make it fun, imagination works best. Our son is a magician now and brushing his teeth is his most celebrated (and only) trick....

[simonee]

Hey worried mamas,

my dd (2.75 years) had the same thing on two front teeth. In themselves, the holes aren't necessarily bad. She had one of the teeth filled because there was decay on the back, the other one has been the same for almost a year now. They probably came in that way.

For details, do a search on my name on this board, and you'll see all the developments including LOTS OF great smilemomma advice and interpretation.

Hope that helps

[Gooseysma]

What are soft teeth and what causes them?

My dd had dental restoration work done yesterday . She is 2 1/2 and was put under general anesthesia to get the work done. Thankfully we didn't need the two pulpetomies originally thought to be needed. We did end up with several fillings and three crowns. The dental surgeon told me that my daughter has soft teeth and that dd needs to be weaned (she's breastfed and is weaning herself - down to twice a day from the 4-5 she was doing) and should drink water (tap is fine but if bottled needs to be flouridated) as a majority of her fluid intake and if she has juice it should be orange juice with calcium (no apple or grape juice).

Someone please tell me what the heck a soft tooth is? Is there anything that can be done to make them hard? Will this soft teeth thing follow her though adult teeth?

TIA

[willibug]

Another ECC (aka bottlemouth) thread...

When I got this month's issue of Mothering in the mail a couple of weeks ago, I had no idea I'd soon be joining the ranks of all the breastfeeders out there worrying that we have ruined our precious baby's teeth!


At my 16mo's last well-baby check-up, our pediatrician asked about my baby's nighttime nursing. I replied that he is inclined to "nurse the night away", but that my other two children had been the same and I accepted it as normal. She then went on to suggest night weaning to protect his teeth. I have never been one to consider night weaning and, besides, my other kids' teeth are fine( both nursed night and day well into toddlerhood), so I just dismissed her suggestion. While I had heard that "bottle mouth" could indeed happen in babies who'd never been anywhere near a bottle, I still thought that my baby's risk wasn't one to worry too much about.

Well, just a few weeks later, I noticed two small brown spots on DS's teeth. I had also recently noticed small crescent-shaped white patches on his upper front teeth just below the gums. I thought these must be normal variations in the color of the enamel. But 3 days ago I went to my own doctor, and on the bulletin board I saw a poster about "bottle mouth" with photos of baby teeth in various stages of decay. One photo looked EXACTLY like my baby's teeth !!


I got right on my computer and came here and did a search of the dental forums. I found LOTS of info, and I've tried my best to make sense of it all. I've also read the current Mothering mag. Still, this is such a complicated issue, and one that seems to evoke so much emotion, that I felt the need to post to try and clarify my thinking.


I must have phoned 25 dentists before I found one that would both see my son and take our insurance. I finally found one about 45 minutes away, and we are going on Monday. I don't know anything about this dentist, so who knows? But at least I got him in with SOMEONE! Most dentists in our area don't take kids under three. And those who do are often booked up until the fall or even later! I even tried some as much as 3 hours away! Anyway, he's booked in for Monday, thank goodness, but I have a few concerns beforehand:

1. I would like to know what I can do for DS while we are awaiting treatment. I asked one of the dental nurses this on the phone, and her advice was to simply wean him. When I said I didn't feel he was ready, she said, "AT 16 MONTHS!!! You don't see babies with BOTTLES at that age! Just put him on a sippy cup. He'll be okay!" : I have stepped up his brushing. I must admit to not being religious about it before. Oh, the guilt!! Would vitamin/ mineral supplementation be wise? Any recommendations?

2. DS has, unfortunately, had some lead issues over the past few months. We have bought an older home and have done renovations, but despite our taking all proper precautions, his lead level is still "borderline". It is 11, with normal being 10 or below. I know that prenatal exposure to lead has been linked to ECC, but my lead level is zero, so I don't think he was exposed in utero. Have any studies been done linking child lead levels to this condition?

3. I understand that ECC risk is associated with high levels of the bacterium s. mutans, which can be passed from mother to child. I fear that this may be the case here, as both DH and I have untreated decay. We moved to the US from England, having regularly been to the dentist, only to have an American dentist tell us we each had 5+ cavities! We are working our way through them, but I've still got 2 to go. Why didn't I know my cavities could harm my baby? Anyway, assuming we have these "bad bugs", what can we do to help the situation, along with getting the decay treated? What about our kids' mouths? Can we get tested for the bacteria?


4. My hope is to let DS wean himself when he's ready, but if night weaning, or even modifying his night nursing could save his teeth, then I guess I must. He sleeps with me and nuurses as he pleases which, admittedly, can be A LOT. The doc suggested I at least wipe his teeth afer each nursing, but half the time I'm not even fully awake! So this sort of thing would require MAJOR changes for me but, again, I'll do what I must. But, of course, I'd rather not. What do you think?


Well, I've rambled on enough for one session. Forgive me if I'm asking what's been asked before, but my head is fairly spinning.

One thing I can see is that public education on ECC is lacking. I mean, I spend a lot of time and energy researching my children's health, and still, I find I'm seriously uninformed on this important issue. But maybe that's another thread...


Thanks for reading...Willibug

[Teresa]

S. mutans transmission

I read the recent Mothering article with great interest.
I was especially interested in the information on the transmission of S. mutans from mother to child.
I have never (yet?) had a cavity in 35 years, and neither of my children had any teeth before 1 year of age, so I'm pretty confident that they will 'get lucky' and at least start out with the potential to have 'good' teeth.

On the other hand, my husband has terrible teeth and a mouth full of filled cavities. He believes that these are from a childhood with limitless sweets and sugar and parents who did not promote good dental hygiene. He has not gotten any 'new' cavities since high school or adolescence, so he may be right.

So, finally, my questions are about how transmissible the S. mutans is?
Should I never use his toothbrush?
After 10 years, wouldn't I have 'gotten' this from him already if he did have it?
Is there any truth to the tale that some people have an 'acidic' mouth more susceptible to cavities and others have 'alkaline' mouths more susceptible to tartar?
Would that (mouth ph) affect transmission of S. mutans?
Why is the transmission strictly mother-to-child?
Or is it? Could my husband transmit to my children?
If the S. mutans level fluctuates with pregnancy are there other conditions that can also cause it to do so?
What about adopted children--do they receive this from their mothers, as I would guess, or from their birth mother?
How does that work?

Hmmn. . . better go re-read that article!
Please let me know if anyone knows anything more about this!
Thanks,
Teresa

[Jane]

I believe it was a Smithsonian article, but I remember reading that your personal mouth bacteria are very very terratorial once established. It used the example of a french kiss. There are (some) number of colonies transfered and they are all killed by your mouth flora in less than (some small amount of time ~30sec?). It also said that babies get their bacteria from their mothers and that they have almost identical % of different types, showing that there is almost a perfect fidelity in transfer.
I just tried searching for some info on Google, but no luck, lots of info on HIV and foreplay, but nothing on saliva. This was a good link, though, as it has some interesting links on it.
http://www.kellymom.com/tooth-decay.html
Unfortunatly for me, I have cultured my own mouth, and I know that I have some very strong acid-producting bacteria, so I don't take chances and brush a lot. Hopefully all this yap will do you some good, although I don't think I answered a single question of yours!

[Teresa]

Wow! right back! Thank YOU for all the info.

Now I'm wondering about my pregnancies, because along with being sick-as-a-dog for 6 months (I'm a bit of a dental hygiene nut, so I worried about the stomach acids damaging my teeth!) the other 'symptom' I had was excessive salivation. I carried around a cup or washcloth for that same time period. Maybe all that saliva actually helped!

So an adoptive child would be colonized by the bacteria of whomever was her caregiver at the time her teeth erupted?

Fascinating. I bet there are other aspects of our health that have similar processes--like the stomach/digestive bacteria, those that inhabit the nose & throat, others we aren't even aware of yet!

Thanks again. Really interesting!

[kacey563]

Dental Caries, 2 yr old

Hello all..
SmileMomma~

My 2.5 yr old daughter Katie is developing caries in her front top four teeth. Her big sister Jenny who is 5 now, had the same 4 teeth extracted through surgery under GA when she was 2 yrs 3 months. They have both been totally breastfed, no bottles...we live in the country and the pediatrician prescribed floride for them. In being totally honest, I was not faithful in giving it to Jenny. (just not good about remembering to give it too her, not militant) But we brushed well at least twice a day. They said that Jen could have a certain bacteria in her mouth and she is a night breather (sleeps with mouth open) and this allowed bacteria present to dry on her teeth, and she was an insistant night nurser.
************************************************** *******************
She is doing well(Jen) at 5 now and her teeth spacing is good and her speech shows no signs of problems at all, I was worried, as a bridge was considered and in the end the dentist thought she would be ok with no prob. No new teeth upper yet, but she is loosing her bottom ones like kids should(thank heavens) It was a pricey surgery and though we had insurance, alot of out of pocket cost but she made it out of surgery and has no memory of it at all..just wants to know when she will get new teeth

Sorry for long story...but now that we are looking at history repeating itself, with Katie, and since I would like to avoid the same situation, at least catch the decay in its early stages, (thumbnail line at gumline on top front 4 teeth) and today I noticed a small chip on *her* right eyetooth, do you know if these type of problems can be filled/capped/fixed..anything but pulled..just checking out all the options, and Thanks in Advance for anyones advice... she is still nursing though not as *heavy* a night nurser as her sister was.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated...

Just want to know what all my options might be..and what course of action should be next..currently Katie brushes her teeth with momma 2-3 times a day, after meals, and before bed, flouride .5ml, once a day..I know they say it prob isnt necessary, I just want to be so careful..I am sad this has happended to Katie, after what Jenn went through....hope we come up with a better solution..she doesnt even drink juice, or sugary things..thought we did this right this time...:/

have a great night...

Kristine :

[willibug]

Thanks, Smilemomma for responding. I've said it before, but I'll say it again--you are appreciated at MDC!!

Well, I took DS to his dental appointment on Monday, so I thought I'd post an update. The good news is that the dentist was GREAT!! I felt totally comfortable with him, and we quickly developed a good rapport. I was very relieved, as I knew nothing about him before the appointment. But the bad news is that my suspicions were confirmed--DS has ECC. He has 3, and possibly 4, cavities.

This dentist is affiliated with a program called Bright Smiles. In this program, ECC children are admitted to a local hospital for day surgery, where their dental work is carried out under general anesthesia. He will fill the cavities with white fillings, and his guess is that DS will be in the operating room for no more than an hour. A BIG bonus for us is that the state of Vermont will pay any portion of the treatment not covered by our insurance! Hooray!

Anyway, I am awaiting the hospital appointment, which will be sent in the mail. In the meantime, DS has to have a complete physical with our pediatrician. The dentist was AMAZED at the amount of knowledge I had about ECC--I felt SO proud ! He was very sensible, and pro-breastfeeding to boot! However, I have a few more questions for you, Smilemomma, about his recommendations. He would like to do a fluoride treatment on DS' teeth while he is under the GA in the hospital. And afterwards, he would like to have our well water analyzed for fluoride content, and evaluate DS' diet, and then possibly prescribe the very minimum amount of fluoride drops, as his teeth seem to be a bit "vulnerable". And I didn't ask him this, but do you think I should try to cut down on night nursing, or wipe his teeth during the night?

Well, baby needs me, so I've got to go. I SO much appreciate all the info on this board. I would feel so frightened and alone in this otherwise.

[nyscof]

I don't have the answer to stop your child's decay except to say that calcium, magnesium, Vitamin D, A and C are involved in healthy teeth. I'm sure there are more nutrients required. And, of course, absolutely no refined sugars.

However, lead HAS been linked to tooth decay

(e.g.,. Lanphear/Moss (June, 1999 Journal of the American Medical Association)

Silicofluorides, used by over 90% of U.S. fluoridating communities, induce
children's higher blood-lead levels, according to studies by Masters and
Coplan. Call your water department to find out if your your water is fluoridated with silicofluorides. Even if tap water isn't ingested, fluoride can get absorbed or inhaled via baths and showers.

Additionally, fluoride, itself, slightly above the dosage dentists'
recommend, causes cavities (Burt/Eklund 1999;
www.enn.com/direct/display-release.asp?id=5114 )

It seems that if any parents are concerned that their children will be fluoride-deficient because their dentists or pediatricians convince them this is a problem, they could get their children's urine fluoride measured. When it's higher than it should be, argments should cease.

San Antonio, Texas, unfortunately will fluoridate its water supply soon. But one women had her child's urine fluoride level measured and found it sufficiently high so that her doctor advises no more fluoride. So the city is partially funding a filtering system for only her home.

This is an excerpt from the newspaper article:


"Cheryl Pursely, a San Antonio resident whose five children are on Medicaid
and have a chronic hypersensitivity to fluoride, recently convinced SAWS
officials to install an undersink reverse osmosis system at her house. A
local vendor donated the $1,145 equipment, and SAWS paid the installation fee
of $145.

"The dentists have told me the kids should not be exposed to fluoride," she
said, adding that fluoride urinalyses recently showed that the children are
ingesting up to 1.56 ppm of fluoride daily, simply from dietary intake.

Boggess said Pursely approached SAWS officials a number of times, expressing
concern about her ability to protect her children. The utility made some
calls and found someone willing to donate a system to the family, he said,
adding that neither the utility nor the city has adopted any policies that
would aid low-income people who may suffer ill effects from fluoride."

The whole article is here:

http://news.mysanantonio.com/story.c...768845&xld=180

http://www.orgsites.com/ny/nyscof

[nyscof]

Here's a medline abstract of a study I didn't mention in my above post:

J Dent Educ 2001 Oct;65(10):1046-53 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut


Exposure to metal ions and susceptibility to dental caries.

Bowen WH.

Center for Oral Biology, University of Rochester, NY 14642, USA. [e-mail]

Results from several epidemiologic studies have shown that there are large differences in the prevalence of dental caries from one region to another within the United States as well as in other countries. It has been postulated that the observed differences may be attributed in part at least to exposure to trace elements such as selenium, vanadium, molybdenum, strontium, and lead. Although data from epidemiologic studies usually support this hypothesis, direct evidence is sparse with the possible exception of exposure to lead. Data from several epidemiologic studies and animal-based research support the concept that lead is a caries-promoting element. Lead mimics calcium in several respects and may affect development of teeth and salivary glands, clearly enhancing susceptibility to dental caries. Elevated blood levels are found most commonly in persons residing in inner cities, particularly among the poor. Many states require blood lead level to be monitored in young children. Where feasible, these records should form part of health history and be available to the treating dental practitioner to ensure that extra preventive procedures may be implemented.

PMID: 11699976 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

New York State Coalition Opposed to Fluoridation
http://www.orgsites.com/ny/nyscof

[SquirelNutkin]

We have had the same problems with our night nurser.
No juices, no sugar, and yet a mouthful of cavities.

Here are some ideas.
Tea tree oil wash, a bit after she nurses at night.
Anyhthing that will stimulate saliva at night will help wash the teeth.

Rubbing her teeth with a soft cloth after night nursing

We carry around floride mouth wash- so when we are out, she can at least swish (usually before we get back in the car)

Calcium supplements.

I would also read that last issue of mothering, a very good discussion about cavities and some alternative options.

good luck
b

[kacey563]

SquirelNutkin~

Thank you so much for the advice! I like the idea for the floride rinse,(but am afraid of her swallowing it...) and would you believe I was out OK and forgot to get it AGAIN!(maybe for the "Big kids(14 and 10): E gads! Also on the calcium supplements..do you mean for Katie or I or both? Can children this age(2.5) get calcium supplements? Or is it reccomended, if so or if anyone has gotten them, where? I am taking a prenate vit to just so I dont get worn down, notice it only had 15% calcium, so upped it to two softgels, at 1200mg, (with vit D for added absorption)or I think it said 115% daily value, reccomended for women..I take C too, but the extra calcium is new. COuld she get enough through the milk she gets from me..I guess its hard to say how much she gets, through me, though I know everyone says, "They will get what they need" Not worried, just curious..YK?


Would the extra calcium help Katies teeth if I was taking it and not her?

Thanks guys you rock, this board is awesome! Hope I can help someone some day!

Huggles right back at cha!
Kristi