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Originally Posted by johub
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I have yet to see an example of a parent who chose this type of parenting based on the soundness of the philosophy who was not influenced by their own rebellious nature. Is it a philosophy based on a reaction to authoritative parenting by adults who were spirited and rebellious as children? <snip> |
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Originally Posted by johub
There was a previous post (I dnt remember who or even if it was this thread so please bear with me) where the poster recognized that their rebellious temperament was a bad fit for authoritative parents while her sister's easy going temperament was a pretty good for authoritative parents.
I think that it is perhaps less an overall parenting goal that everybody is interested in to be less coercive or not at all coercive. But a reaction to traditional parenting by individuals with particularly rebellious personalities. I did not want to obey as a child. I do not want my child to obey anybody. I do not feel that as a child I was respected by society. I dont want my child to grow up to be a "worker bee" for society. I have yet to see an example of a parent who chose this type of parenting based on the soundness of the philosophy who was not influenced by their own rebellious nature. Is it a philosophy based on a reaction to authoritative parenting by adults who were spirited and rebellious as children? Is it this dynamic which makes it so difficult for those of us with different temperaments to grasp the value of? I have a very easy going temperament, as do three of my children. I simply did not feel disrespected or rebellious or whatever as a result of my parents efforts to control me. In fact I had a sister and brother who were rebellious by nature and for the life of me I couldnt figure out what was so hard about following a few simple and logical rules. It never once occurred to me that there was anythign wrong with my parents parenting style. And yet this did not distort me into a "praise junkie" or somebody desparately seekign the approval of others. Or somebody with no creativity or problem solving skills or independance. In fact I think my parents must have done somethign remarkably right. This is so interesting to me. . . Joline |
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Originally Posted by lisac77
It's a matter of being able to pinpoint the issue and deal with it that's the trick, and it's not something that becomes evident overnight.
So as far as understanding and provding for the child's needs in a framework of respect for all parties, I'm in total agreement with a large part of this philosophy. However I simply don't see the need to manage and negotiate every little interaction. I suppose if one had the time and the inclination and the micro-managing skills to do that it would work well for them. I am not that type of person. Additionally, I do not have the time to let my son dictate every situation according to his will. I don't like it when I have to override him, but I do occasionally because I have to. Yes, I have to. Total non-coerciveness, to me, is idealistic. I simply cannot allow all of my time to be dictated by one other person, because there are a lot of demands on my time. If a pair of parents has all the time in the world to negotiate, please, do it and enjoy! But don't look down on me for not doing so. I also don't think a parent who makes her child wear a coat outside when it's cold, or putting shoes on so that they can go out to be coercive. Yes, by definition that is coercion, but not in reality. IRL, kids simply can't make all the decisions they need to protect their health and safety. That's what parents are for. |
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Originally Posted by Piglet68
Joline, very intersting question about reactions to our own parenting.
I spent pretty much most of my adolescent and childhood years desperately craving independence. My parents were not overly punitive, they were good parents I think. But they did use punishment as a means of discipline and I still recall clearly how I felt when punished. I felt angry, unjustly treated, I felt as though my reasons, my thinking, my "story" didn't matter to anybody. I felt angry and resentful - it did NOT make me sit and "think about what I did" but rather I dreamed up some pretty interesting ways to get what I wanted and avoid the punishment. |
| No one has a perfect childhood. As much as we try, no one has it perfect, that is not reality. However, I will be damned if my daughter takes 10 years like I have, to heal from her childhood. The very act of her being alive, in our house, was not a choice she made. She didn't choose any of it. She is basically "stuck" with us until she moves out. My goal for her as she grows, to feel as if she had had a choice, she would have chosen us. |
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Originally Posted by monkey's mom
Someone on another list recently said that her goal is to make her kids' childhoods so full of joy that they would chose to live them over and over again. That's a pretty wonderful goal!
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Originally Posted by scubamama
Your assumption is that this process is micro-managing and time consuming. Frankly, it is easier to create cooperation when one knows what the issue of objection is and address it. Rather than having the same issue repeat itself again and again; it can be resolved. Little issues don't become big issues because there is communication and discussion throughout the day. When one relies on words rather than forced compliance, information can be exchanged. Why do you believe that a child is dictating if you are getting your needs met and he is getting his needs met? The control matrix just does not exist in our home as something that anyone dictates or imposes on others.
I am sorry that you feel that you have a lot demands on your time that you "have to" do. That sounds like you are subjected to a lot. We choose not to be "subjected" to things we do not want to do; nor do we subject our son to things he does not want to do. We are happier this way than when we do choose to subject ourselves to a lot of demands on our time. |
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Originally Posted by natensarah
I don't know about this. I mean, I want my dc to be happy, but relive their childhood? I think this implies that adulthood is inherently joyless, which is not what I want my dc to think.
My dad told me his parenting philosophy was, "Let children be children, but teach them how to be an adult." That's what I want for my children. |
| I am so sick of people thinking that life is full of things that other people, things, and situations that are "making" them do or not do something. Everything you do or don't do is directly related to a choice you made, and directly related to whether or not you are willing to suffer or benefit (whichever the case may be) from making other choices that change where you are, how you do things, what situation you are in. |
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Originally Posted by Rigama
Sometimes meeting the immediate needs of the child is neglecting your own needs or is counter to the safety of you and your child...It's not always possible to meet everyone's needs right away. Let's say you are driving alone down a highway in the bad part of a big city...there is no place to safely pull over and your child is screaming and crying. You assume the reason is quite valid, yet YOUR reasons for not pulling over, taking you kid out and walking down the road with him are pretty valid too.
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| Do you mean this as a global approach to life? Because, to depart from the child raising aspect, I don't think it's as simple as us: 1) Being victims of circumstances or 2) Being masters of our destiny The truth is in between, and varies according to circumstance. |
| Of course, if my daughter was born in a war-torn, third world country, sold into slavery and had to work countless hours at a sweat shop under the threat of death, that part of my post would not apply. Obviously, none of us here fit that bill and I would hope that most people would get that from my post and realize I was not speaking of people in those very sad, unfortunate circumstances. |
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Originally Posted by captain crunchy
Of course, if my daughter was born in a war-torn, third world country, sold into slavery and had to work countless hours at a sweat shop under the threat of death, that part of my post would not apply. Obviously, none of us here fit that bill and I would hope that most people would get that from my post and realize I was not speaking of people in those very sad, unfortunate circumstances.
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| But that's OK. My older son is almost 4 and we've been able to explain lots of situations like this. Because there are not arbitrary or countless limits imposed upon him, he understands that we're telling him the truth and still working as a team and/or on his behalf. |
Just as a non coercive approach to living does not mean your needs and desires get sacrificed, a parenting paradigm that includes an authorative style does not mean we have "countless limits imposed" or "arbitrary" limits.
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Originally Posted by scubamama
Maybe this is why I am so abled to creatively discover solutions that ds agrees with. I understand his pov; but I also had lots of creative practice overcoming obstacles to get my way as a teenager.
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Originally Posted by scubamama
We had this issue until I realized that our son just gets too hot in the car, and doesn't like the feel of clothing when sitting idle. Even in the house, he strips down to the bare minimum. He has some sensory acuity issues. And he is highly sensitive. And is very hot natured. (unless it is about 35-40 degrees, he doesn't get cold without a coat. I am the opposite so I think he must be freezing but he is perfectly articulate and just is not cold.) He wears the necessary loose clothing to cover his body and he puts his clothes on in the car when we arrive. Same with shoes. He prefers a blanket in the car for when the car is first cold and then throws it off when he gets too warm. I of course have a coat on and heat.
How old is your daughter? I would think the above would work until age 5ish and then naked children in a car might be an issue.  But our son is perfectly agreeable to put clothes on to go into an establishment or event. You might try that. It is much easier to dress a willing participant, I imagine.Pat |
