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You HAVE to do things... (spin-off) - Page 4

post #61 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey's mom
But that's OK. My older son is almost 4 and we've been able to explain lots of situations like this. Because there are not arbitrary or countless limits imposed upon him, he understands that we're telling him the truth and still working as a team and/or on his behalf.
This is true in my home as well and I do not believe in non coercive parenting.
While I do not have the goal to never be coercive. I DO have the goal to never be arbitrary. And that any rule or limit is wellthought out and considered truly important before applying.
post #62 of 434
Thread Starter 
What if, what if, what if, what if... this is usually the arguement people resort to in discussions like this.

I don't think any of us here are living in the dire circumstances that would prevent someone from having choices. I would have hoped people wouldn't insult my intelligence so much as to imply that I feel for instance, little girls in Africa can make a decision not to be genitally mutilated, or sold into marriage at 8 or whatever.

I think though, that resorting to those arguements, when most reasonable people would come to the conclusion that I wasn't speaking of those circumstances, is a clever maneuver to get away from the point.

So I will clarify and bring it a bit closer to home. Everyone on this site has choices If you are living well enough to have an internet connection, even if you are living modestly (as our family is) you have choices.

Of course things like terminal cancer isn't a choice. Neither is walking down the street getting hit by a bus. I was silly to assume that most people would get that I have enough brains to not claim that people "choose" cancer, or to get hit by a bus. That is ridiculous.

However, getting back on topic, my child can certainly choose whether she wants to work under an @sshople boss, or what rules and laws are important enough for her to follow, or what she wears when she leaves the house, or where she lives, who she lives with, where she works, how she looks, what she eats, where she goes, what she does, who she interacts with...

So why would I want to create an environment when she is a child that eliminates most choices she has, or limits them to only the choices *I* find acceptable?

I don't want to raise her to think she has to follow orders or be mistreated because hey, that is just how the world works. Gee, sure glad people like Rosa Parks and the like didn't think so.
post #63 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain crunchy
What if, what if, what if, what if... this is usually the arguement people resort to in discussions like this.

I don't think any of us here are living in the dire circumstances that would prevent someone from having choices. I would have hoped people wouldn't insult my intelligence so much as to imply that I feel for instance, little girls in Africa can make a decision not to be genitally mutilated, or sold into marriage at 8 or whatever.

I think though, that resorting to those arguements, when most reasonable people would come to the conclusion that I wasn't speaking of those circumstances, is a clever maneuver to get away from the point.

So I will clarify and bring it a bit closer to home. Everyone on this site has choices If you are living well enough to have an internet connection, even if you are living modestly (as our family is) you have choices.

Of course things like terminal cancer isn't a choice. Neither is walking down the street getting hit by a bus. I was silly to assume that most people would get that I have enough brains to not claim that people "choose" cancer, or to get hit by a bus. That is ridiculous.

However, getting back on topic, my child can certainly choose whether she wants to work under an @sshole boss, or what rules and laws are important enough for her to follow, or what she wears when she leaves the house, or where she lives, who she lives with, where she works, how she looks, what she eats, where she goes, what she does, who she interacts with...

So why would I want to create an environment when she is a child that eliminates most choices she has, or limits them to only the choices *I* find acceptable?

I don't want to raise her to think she has to follow orders or be mistreated because hey, that is just how the world works. Gee, sure glad people like Rosa Parks and the like didn't think so.
I dont think anybody here is thinking that only people in extreme circumstances have no choices though.
when it comes to meeting our basic needs, survival dictates we do not have a choice. And when we have children that goes double.


Can your daughter choose whether or not to work for a boss as you describe? Does she have bills? How is the economy? Is her rent or mortage dependant on that income? Does she have children to support? If she gets fired will she lose her insurance? If she does quit is her "choice" working for McDonalds instead. Does she have seniority or years of experience she would be sacrificing?
This is what most people face when they have a situation as you describe. And is a choice between working for a jerk of a boss and losing your home really a choice? I would say no. Is it a choice to work or have your electric turned off? How about not having money for groceries for your child?
You say these are all choices. Well, when the alternative is a choice nobody would ever pick, it really isnt a choice?
She might choose that laws against shoplifting are stupid because the object she wants is only a few dollars. But that would also be choosing to spend up to 5 years in jail. Some choice.

Ok so maybe you say you want your dd to have the freedom of all these choices. The freedom to choose to be destitute or imprisoned.
Great.
I'd rather my kids know that some things really arent a choice. YOu just do what you gotta do.
Joline
ETA(corrected some snarky sounding language, I didnt mean to come off so strong)
post #64 of 434
Quote:
I would have hoped people wouldn't insult my intelligence so much as to imply that I feel for instance, little girls in Africa can make a decision not to be genitally mutilated, or sold into marriage at 8 or whatever.
That was not my intent, CC. I'm sorry that I took words out of context and used them to prove an obscure point. That was unfair.
post #65 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by johub
I dont think anybody here is thinking that only people in extreme circumstances have no choices though.
when it comes to meeting our basic needs, survival dictates we do NOT have a choice. And when we have children that goes double.

Can your daughter choose whether or not to work for a boss as you describe? Does she have bills? How is the economy? Is her rent or mortage dependant on that income? Does she have children to support? If she gets fired will she lose her insurance? If she does quit is her "choice" working for McDonalds instead. Does she have seniority or years of experience she would be sacrificing?
This is what MOST people face when they have a situation as you describe. And is a choice between working for a jerk of a boss and losing your home really a choice? I would say NO. Is it a choice to work or have your electric turned off? How about not having money for groceries for your child?
You say these are all choices. Well some when the alternative is a choice nobody would EVER pick, it really isnt a choice now is it?
She might choose that laws against shoplifting are stupid because the object she wants is only a few dollars. But that would also be choosing to spend up to 5 years in jail. Some choice.

Ok so maybe you say you want your dd to have the freedom of all these choices. The freedom to choose to be destitute or imprisoned.
Great.
I'd rather my kids know that some things really arent a choice. YOu just do what you gotta do.
Joline

Here's the choice, and it's one I made. I had a bad boss. I didn't feel like I had to continue working for her - I looked into things and found another job. I didn't allow her telling me I was "disloyal" to keep me there. I made a choice to leave a job. I had rent to pay and bills that needed to be paid but I made the choice to leave one employer. I found another job first, but it's amazing how many people stay with bad employers without even trying to find anything else because they feel like they have to. I had to get creative about the job I took but I was determined to get out of there.

Same thing with relationships. People stay in bad relationships all the time because they have an external rule that "marriage has to last forever." I'd never stay in a bad relationship for any reason. I'd find some way to get out no matter how creative I had to get.

People who jump through hoops and follow unjust laws because it will help them at work might also be people who jump through hoops and follow unwise paths because it will help them become more popular with peers, or get the boyfriend they want, or hold onto the boyfriend/girlfriend they want, etc.

I don't like debate and I'm trying not to come across that way. I'm just trying to present how this is working in my mind to try to let you understand my perspective.
post #66 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHSer
Just a point of clarification. Just as a non coercive approach to living does not mean your needs and desires get sacrificed, a parenting paradigm that includes an authorative style does not mean we have "countless limits imposed" or "arbitrary" limits.
No, no of course not. But, I do think that the majority of kids out there do. And that parents are applauded for teaching their kids important life lessons by doing so.

Quote:
And is a choice between working for a jerk of a boss and losing your home really a choice? I would say NO. Is it a choice to work or have your electric turned off? How about not having money for groceries for your child?
You say these are all choices. Well some when the alternative is a choice nobody would EVER pick, it really isnt a choice now is it?
I think those are all real choices. There are a lot of choices betw. working for a jerk and losing your house.

Some people (including some on MDC) have chosen to live off the grid. That's a valid choice.

Some people choose to sell their belongings and quit thier jobs to sail around the Bahamas.

Choosing to work at McDonalds is still a choice--and given the number of McDonalds that are fully staffed in this country, it would seem that plenty of people have made that choice.

I chose to live in extreme poverty for awhile. It was better and offered more freedom than living in my parents house.

eta: I think that seeing our lives as full of choices is the surest way to feeling autonomous and fulfilled. As, I said earlier, I used to not see my life this way and I felt pretty put upon. Now, I can see that I can really do anything. My situation is never hopeless.
post #67 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazee
Here's the choice, and it's one I made. I had a bad boss. I didn't feel like I had to continue working for her - I looked into things and found another job. I didn't allow her telling me I was "disloyal" to keep me there. I made a choice to leave a job. I had rent to pay and bills that needed to be paid but I made the choice to leave one employer. I found another job first, but it's amazing how many people stay with bad employers without even trying to find anything else because they feel like they have to. I had to get creative about the job I took but I was determined to get out of there.

Same thing with relationships. People stay in bad relationships all the time because they have an external rule that "marriage has to last forever." I'd never stay in a bad relationship for any reason. I'd find some way to get out no matter how creative I had to get.

People who jump through hoops and follow unjust laws because it will help them at work might also be people who jump through hoops and follow unwise paths because it will help them become more popular with peers, or get the boyfriend they want, or hold onto the boyfriend/girlfriend they want, etc.

I don't like debate and I'm trying not to come across that way. I'm just trying to present how this is working in my mind to try to let you understand my perspective.
Oh I completely understand and I guess my boss example was incomplete I would never suggest anybody continue to work for a jerk of a boss. But until you have something else lined up you really have no choice but to do what he says. But still yes of course, do what you can to get out as quick as you can. I do not mean people do not have the choice to leave overall. I Only mean that when it comes to right this second, do what he says/put up with him or be unemployed until you find another job.
Sometimes we "have no choice" until we are able to change our circumstances enough to give ourselves a choice.
And I am 100% all for changing ones circumstances.
post #68 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain crunchy
Wow, there is so much to respond to in the time I was caring for our daughter, watching a movie, and taking a wee nap!

Anyway, in regard to what we buy at the grocery store...of course up until a certain age I have to make the food decisions. I mean, would you have me put my daughter on the floor of the grocery store to crawl towards various items until she finds a box, and buy whichever boxes of things she gums the most or what? However, if she is 4 or 5 and says to me one morning, "I would like a banana split for breakfast mommy." I would kindly tell her we don't have everything it takes to make one, but we usually do have bananas and tofutti...and I could make her a "make-shift" one....but next time we went to the store I would buy the things she wants for a banana split if she chooses to have one again. You said that it is controlling because the food your child wants may not be in the house. Well, of course! Do you think I have every food option available in my home at all times? If my daughter made a request though, I would attempt to fill it... if not that moment, but the next time we shopped.

As for the poster who said that they are teaching their children that not everyone is going to jump at their requests, that they are teaching them about "the real world." I don't plan on jumping to my daughter's every request. However, I do believe when you surround yourself with people who care for you, share a similar morla code, and are generally respectful of you as well as themselves-- it creates an environment where people WANT to help you get the things you want and need in life, as you help them...whether it be emotionally or what. I would hate for my daughter to marry a man (or woman) who, if asked for something reasonable, said to my daughter "No, the world isn't going to jump to your requests lady." I want her to surround herself with people she loves and who love her, who she is willing to help and vice versa, in a consentual agreement of friendship or lover or whatever.

Will my daughter have an asshole boss someday? Probably, but I hope she has enough respect for herself or of a higher goal she wants to attain, to either shrug it off as them being a terribly unhappy, power-trippy person with nothing better to do than to treat her badly, or use the skills and education she has to seek other employment with someone more respectful to the person she is.

Life is a choice. Everything is a choice. Unless someone is holding a gun to your head threatening to pull the trigger, you have a choice in everything you do. Even then you have a choice, to scream or not. To try to live, or risk dying, whatever.

I am so sick of people thinking that life is full of things that other people, things, and situations that are "making" them do or not do something. Everything you do or don't do is directly related to a choice you made, and directly related to whether or not you are willing to suffer or benefit (whichever the case may be) from making other choices that change where you are, how you do things, what situation you are in.

People use the excuse that they are raising adults, and this is why they parent the way they do. I could say the same thing. I am raising someone who is going to have a say, who is going to be making every single choice that is going to affect the outcome of her life. No way am I going to raise a child, a daughter especially, who looks to someone else for the answers because she is so used to someone making her decisions for her that she can't be confident in any decision she makes herself because she never got the opportunity to make one.

I think offering two things that you are willing to "let" your child have, then feeling really good when they choose one of the things you wanted them to choose anyway...patting yourself on the back because you "let" them have a choice. That isn't a choice at all.

When I said we usually don't have certain things in our home, we don't. That is a fact. I am not going to stock up on a bunch of crap we haven't eaten for like 7 years "in case" my daughter decides she wants to try something. However, if she expresses interest in trying something, at a friend's house, grandmom's, birthday party, whatever...and comes to me and says "Oh.My.God. They have this stuff called cheetos, and I LOVE THEM...can we buy some????" I would, and let her regulate her consumption of them.
Ok, since we are saying the same things, maybe we really are the same person posting under two names. Have you read Ayn Rand? You sound like an objectivist too. We "have to" meet!

Pat
post #69 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by johub
I have yet to see an example of a parent who chose this type of parenting based on the soundness of the philosophy who was not influenced by their own rebellious nature. Is it a philosophy based on a reaction to authoritative parenting by adults who were spirited and rebellious as children?

i have thought about this a lot since reading all kinds of posts here. it does seem to come up a lot that people here are GD b/c their parents were authoritative, bad parents, whatever. i often wonder if there is a board out there somewhere full of people who were GD'd and thought it was horrible and are now raising their children authoritatively .

but off of this board, i have had the opposite experience. i can't tell you how many people i have heard say, "I was spanked and I turned out good, so i'm going to spank." i can only cringe. i can't very well say, you were devalued, humiliated, disrespected, etc. i certainly can't tell them i think they're abusing their children. kwim?
post #70 of 434
Deleted due to snarkiness. ( I shouldn't have had that second glass of wine last night. )

Pat
post #71 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHSer
I still don't think it applies as an absolute way to evaluate life. I don't need the dramatic circumstances above to know that life is to complex to assert complete powerlessness *or* complete control.

My mother's battle with cancer and recent death is just one common life situation which necessitated choices that were neither completely coerced or able to be responded to with complete choice.

I'm not presenting this as an arguement for coercion in child rearing, btw. Or as an arguement for the imposition of "real world" circumstances on children to prepare them.

I do, however, completely disagree that we have complete power and free choice in all circumstance.
I am sad to hear about your mother's illness and death. I am sure that was a life event of feeling powerlessness. However, the point of "having to" do things you don't want to do is in relation to being *made* to do so by some outside imposed force. And this doesn't occur unless *initiated* by someone. Life certainly "imposes" itself on us, fortunately. But, no one is stating we have complete power and free choice in all circumstances of life. The issue is whether it is necessary for one person to impose their will over another's will because the (little) person "has to" do what the parent wants. What alternative means of accomplishing the goal that doesn't require taking away someone's autonomy exists? And I maintain there are many alternatives that do not include the act of force.

Pat
post #72 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisac77
Captain Crunchy, this precise point is why I feel that the argument of "you don't have to do anything, you choose to do everything" is a reduction to absurdity. Clearly, there are people in this world who do NOT have choices in their personal scenarios. In my opinion, the argument is a classist statement brought about by people who have personal and economic freedom. When you feed the argument back through Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs - the basic things people need to survive - the biological imperative to live will trump choice.

Of course, none of this really has anything to do with gentle discipline.
Just philosophically from an anthropological and socio-economic interest, I disagree. The events listed are due to the *imposition* of force upon another by man. Precisely, one person making another "have to" do something at the threat of a gun (war, slavery, indentured servents) against their will. Life doesn't "owe" choices, imo. But by what principle does one person take choice away from another except by the philosophy of "might makes right"? This is exactly relevant to gentle discipline. As we are modeling this philosophy or rejecting it. How does inner discipline develop when one is controlled by extrinsic force?

Pat
post #73 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by scubamama
Just philosophically from an anthropological and socio-economic interest, I disagree. The events listed are due to the *imposition* of force upon another by man. Precisely, one person making another "have to" do something at the threat of a gun (war, slavery, indentured servents) against their will. Life doesn't "owe" choices, imo. But by what principle does one person take choice away from another except by the philosophy of "might makes right"? This is exactly relevant to gentle discipline. As we are modeling this philosophy or rejecting it. How does inner discipline develop when one is controlled by extrinsic force?

Pat
Parents mediate between the harsh realities of life and the child. If life doesnt "owe" choices, the parent chooses whether or not to offer them. It is not the parent taking away choices. But the parent offering more choices than life would without their mediation.
Just because children have their parents mediate between them and the harsh realities of life and the lack of choices that sometimes happens does not automatically entitle children to a free range of choices not availible to adults. Mom must go to work because of economic reality although nobody is holding a gun to her head. But because mom must go, in order to provide for dc. Dc must go to preschool. She does not have a choice in the scenario because it is her mother who is mediating between her and the world. To her mom is making her go to preschool. In reality the economic situation which necessitates mom to work is the same situation that necessitates the child to go to preschool. But the parent mediates and it is the parent who in actuality "makes" the child go to preschool.
If the parent has resources and creativity she might be able to offer an alternative choice, maybe a daycare or a home based daycare. But the choice the child wants , which is that mom stays home, is not an availible choice.
post #74 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride
My daughter is 2.5. We're usually walking, not driving and when we do drive, it's unlikely that she's too hot in the car, as it's usually a 5 minute drive or less. We live very close to the grocery store, her aunt's place, her grandma's place, three playgrounds, a movie theater, her brother's school, several restaurants, etc. Plus, I like cooler temperatures than anybody else in my family, including dd. She just won't get dressed. If I try to dress her, she runs away. But, if I catch her and put her clothes on, she'll usually sit still for it. If not, I usually cancel the outing.

And, telling her that she needs to get dressed to go to the farm or the park or whatever doesn't work, either. She then claims she doesn't want to go to wherever. But, if I say that's okay...she starts crying that she does want to go. She wants to go wherever it is, but she does not want to get dressed to go. She'll usually put up with me putting her clothes on for her. I don't get it. I'm not totally non-coercive, but I certainly do try to give reasons for things and let my kids know how things work. I don't think they learn anything about life by being told "go here...go there...don't touch that... stop...go...don't eat that", with no explanation of why they should stop, go or avoid touching something. But, generally with dd, less coercion = more chaos. She seems to prefer the approach of "we're going shopping - here's your clothes. Do you want to put them on or should I do that?". And..presto - we're out the door.

I wonder if ds1 was highly sensitive. He hated socks, because the seams never felt right, and he was always naked.
It sounds like

1. She doesn't like clothes. : I'd try less clothed child in the backpack with a blanket. Or skip the clothes going to wherever in the car. And don't go if she really doesn't want to go at that time. Or make going more fun during the transition (take along toys, snack, etc.). I found waiting for a natural break in ds's play where he finished one activity and then engage him and move us out the door before a new activity began worked. Because he enjoyed the engagement as much as any activity.

2. She wants choice. So when she doesn't want to go "ok"; when she (immediately) subsequently does want to go "ok". Trying to get her to go when she is resistant creates the struggle for choice, from my experience. When the choice is available, there is nothing to struggle over. For either of us. And we just move on to what we both want to do without struggling.

Sounds like you are doing it. It is hard when others are waiting though. Having family that is respectful of children helps. Just as it helps for us to be patient and respectful with my grandfather who is indecisive, slow to get ready and out the door and changes his mind.

Pat
post #75 of 434
I've enjoyed reading through the whole thread. I most definitely want to be less coercive than I am currently. I know it will make our days run more smoothly. Most things in our daily life I can absolutely let DD make her decisions about. One particular thing comes to mind, though, as this has been a recent battle........brushing her teeth. I don't feel like that is an optional task.

I certainly do not want to reduce this thread to a question regarding personal hygiene, but I am sincerely curious.....do you "make" your children brush their teeth. BTW, I offer suggestions such as laying in the recliner to "play" dentist, standing on the step-stool in the bathroom, etc. Somedays its no struggle at all and we have fun with it. Other days she simply does not want to. When this happens, I sometimes just let it go, other times I force it. Not sure how to handle this. Minor, I know, but on my mind. WWYD, non-coercive mamas?

TIA!
post #76 of 434
Neat discussion.

One point that I've always found puzzling is this idea that we must impose on our children the "harsh realities" of life in order to best prepare them for it.

But I honestly feel that you don't prepare your children for 'real life' by imposing real life situations on them. In fact, I think in some ways it would be more effective to do the exact opposite. For example, how do you raise a child to be able to withstand teasing, gossiping, bullying...that sort of emotional abuse? Well, you don't do it by teasing and bullying them at home, with the idea that "well, she knows we love her so it's a safe way to teach her what real life will be like". On the contrary, we know that the best way to combat such bullying is high self-esteem. By raising a child to love themself, believe in themselves, to trust their feelings as being valid and right, all those things build up a child who can better withstand assaults on their personality: with strong self-esteem, the bully-ers are seen for what they are; inconsequential and insecure.

Similarly, I think children who are raised to be part of the solution are better able to own up to their responsibilities, instead of being of the 'blame everyone else' persuasion. That also makes me think of the above debates about whether or not we really have choices. I like looking at the glass as 'half full' and believing I do have a choice, because otherwise I feel it's too easy to blame everybody else for your shortcomings or mistakes.

I think children who take part in decision making and problem solving just may do better at dealing with overbearing bosses, or tough life choices, than children who are raised in an authoritarian manner. So rather than saying "we need to exert control because that is what real life is like sometimes", I think we should say "I need to teach them about owning the problem so that they can decide the best course of action...which just may be, in certain circumstances, to 'obey'. But at least they are choosing that route conciously and with forethought".
post #77 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommaJ
I've enjoyed reading through the whole thread. I most definitely want to be less coercive than I am currently. I know it will make our days run more smoothly. Most things in our daily life I can absolutely let DD make her decisions about. One particular thing comes to mind, though, as this has been a recent battle........brushing her teeth. I don't feel like that is an optional task.

I certainly do not want to reduce this thread to a question regarding personal hygiene, but I am sincerely curious.....do you "make" your children brush their teeth. BTW, I offer suggestions such as laying in the recliner to "play" dentist, standing on the step-stool in the bathroom, etc. Somedays its no struggle at all and we have fun with it. Other days she simply does not want to. When this happens, I sometimes just let it go, other times I force it. Not sure how to handle this. Minor, I know, but on my mind. WWYD, non-coercive mamas?

TIA!
We laugh because it always comes down to brushing teeth, bedtimes, eating vegetables and the car seat. No we do not make ds brush his teeth. We model, explain, offer alternatives. We have about six different tooth brushes, his choice varies according to the moon (apparently). We have several types of tooth paste, we have floss (several types and methods), we have electric tooth brushes, we don't have a water pic but that helps, we have tongue brushes, little tooth pics, little dental mirrors, etc. He brushes about five times per week. Somedays 2-3 times. Mostly daily. He brushes in the morning, in the car, in bed, in front of the tv, at the table, in front of the mirror. Whenever and wherever he chooses. He requests brushing and refuses brushing. We eat plenty of raw vegetables, little candy, plenty of sweets, diluted juice, takes vitamins and calcium. And his teeth are fine. But we do not have a battle about what goes into his mouth.

I brushed well as a child. Several times a day and had many cavities. We also ate much more candy, etc. Mostly cavities are genetic. So, we shall see over time.

Pat
post #78 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey's mom
I don't think that a joyful time that you would willingly go back to means that the rest of your life is joyless or that you don't wish to experience that, too. It doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.

I think part of giving my kids a joyful childhood means that I'm giving myself a joyful adulthood. And they can see how a life based on respect and give and take creates a joyful experience for everybody.

I don't get how making a joyful environment free of coercion and bullying isn't teaching kids how to be adults?
Oh, sorry, I guess I didn't see what you were saying, I agree with you here.

But I also think a little coercion doesn't prevent a joyful environment.
post #79 of 434
Pat: I think it's more a choice thing than a clothes thing. She likes to wear clothes - she just doesn't like to put them on to go out. I'll think about a blanket in the pack, but I worry about the rain - it gets pretty heavy here. The time it gets really ugly is when it's "okay - we won't go", then her brother gets hungry...I sit down to nurse..."I want to go to the farm". ARGGH!

Of course, as soon as I'm finished nursing, she doesn't want to go again...and putting her clothes on so we can go as soon as he finishes isn't an option.

Ah, well - I know from ds1 that this time is all too brief. I'll enjoy all there is to enjoy and try not to let the rest of it cause my head to explode.
post #80 of 434
Quote:
We laugh because it always comes down to brushing teeth, bedtimes, eating vegetables and the car seat.
You forgot running into the street and learning math.

The usual list for challenges to positive parenting/discipline questions is similar:

running into the street, touching the stove, backtalk and the big, undefined: outright defiance.
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