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parents won't take responsibility for religious circs - Page 14

post #261 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by numom499
Please read the entre thread...there are things that deeply religious people do that others can never understand, because its what God expects it of them. I am a Christian, and do many things that God expects of me, but others may see as foolish. THe thing is, I don't have to answer to others, only to God.
LMAO! There are murderers who kill because "the devil made them do it" but that doesn't make it right or something that should be acceptable for them to do. Now don't get me wrong, I want to make it VERY VERY clear that I am not saying anyone is a murderer here or blah blah blah.

We won't go there, what I AM doing is making an extremely exaggerated example of how this is unacceptable.

If you want to do it to yourself, be my guest. But just because YOU believe something doesn't mean your children will. If my Gods told me to tattoo myself, fine, so be it. But if my Gods told me to tattoo my children, I would say....wait a minute. If THEY grow up and decide that is what THEY want, then they, as adults can do so.

I think you SHOULD have to answer to others. I think that people should NOT be allowed to do whatever with their kids just because they may have MADE them....they shouldn't be allowed to hurt them.

It is genital mutilation, no matter what reason you do it.

And another thing, just because I am not of a certain religion, does not mean that I can't grasp why someone else might believe it. Kwim?

Olivia
post #262 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2seven
Asherah - AMEN SISTA! Kudos for your whole post.
I second that!
And M, like I said in PM
And yes, I have room in box now.
post #263 of 384
Thread Starter 
Where did this come from: people accusing me of wanting to start the next holocaust, just because I think circumcision is a human rights violation. Whoever is accusing me of being offensive...

Quote:
My point? Listen. No, really put down your defenses and listen. You have been offensive since post one. If you care at all about understanding or even abotu changing people's minds you aren't going to do it at all travelling this path.
My OP was never meant to be here. It was posted on the anti-circ forum, where no one but anti-circ'ers were meant to see it. Someone moved it here. I didn't intend to start a debate, but I wanted feedback from other intactivists about how to clarify my ideas to make them cohesive and understandable.

Quote:
You are clearly ignorant about many things with regards to this issue, if you care so much about what you see as a violation of human rights then it would behoove you to really understand where people are coming from. How do you plan to convince anyone of anything, to "save these babies" by demeaning thier parents?
I am not ignorant about anything in regards to this issue. I have studied circumcision and its place in Jewish and Muslim culture for years. I simply reject the order of their values in this one case.

I have not been offensive. I know that people really enjoy believing the worst about people, and I think that is wrong.

In my OP, I was trying to express something like when it comes to religion, people can't think straight. Take the Christian Crusades for example, they thought it was their God-ordained duty to go take the Holy Land back for God. I have a fear of getting caught up in something religious that would actually be really bad and not God's will. People want to have faith so bad that they force it and get caught up in their excitement and don't think 'does God really want me to go join a 'holy war' and kill my fellow humanity?' Is something like that really consistent with the spirit of the Divine?

I can safely base my life on Judeo-Christian principles. Forgiveness, mercy, charity, meekness, peace-making, love, service to others, stewardship with the resources I've been given, I think there are more.... I believe these ideals are a greater reality and more like God's will than a command for holy war, or a demand for foreskin sacrifice. The Scriptures seem more like a dialogue between God and people than a monologue directly from God.

I believe it is God's will for my life to seek mercy for newborns. Children's rights in general are heavy in my heart. I think it takes a greater love to have mercy on someone than to cause them harm.
post #264 of 384
I am amazed this thread is still going.

Mercy for the newborns. Interesting.
Children's rights in general are heavy on your heart.

I know this is a bit of a tangent but my curiosity has been peaked. What about the newborn & children's right to food, clean water and shelter? Are you out there assisting new moms with all aspects of tending to their children or is your interest purely their penis? You are certainly within your rights to provide information to mom to be or new moms on your position of circumcision. Do you also supply information on how to feed & clothe them? Do you tell them they are violating their babies rights if they take them out in clothing you do not feel is appropriate for the weather? Tell them they are feeding their babies poison in a can if they do not breastfeed?

I do understand that you feel passion about this issue. I can even understand your frustration at what you feel are people's flimsy excuses for circing. For me, the way you present your frustration turns me off to your entire message. It is like those PETA people. I won't listen to a word they say because their methods turn me off so much.
post #265 of 384
Queen, stop before you choke on your foot.
There are nothing *but* anti circers here.

Judeo-christian, what??

You can add our friendly pagan and muslim and "other" (B'hai, first nations, etc) to the list of those you've offended.

My eyes, they're burning. OY.

Nebekh
post #266 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelovedBird
There are nothing *but* anti circers here.
Specifically who here is something other than just anti-circ?
post #267 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheacoby
Specifically who here is something other than just anti-circ?
huh? I apologize, I have no idea what you are asking.
post #268 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelovedBird
huh? I apologize, I have no idea what you are asking.
I was trying to get clarity on what you meant by that, what you meant by putting *but* like that. I think obviously there are people here who aren't anti-circ. I would think you wouldn't circ if you were against it.
post #269 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheacoby
I was trying to get clarity on what you meant by that, what you meant by putting *but* like that. I think obviously there are people here who aren't anti-circ. I would think you wouldn't circ if you were against it.
I didn't circ. I gave my sons a bris milah.
It was a resonse to Queen who said her post was intended for an audience of anti circers. I was pointing out that everyone here is anti circ.
post #270 of 384
Part of that ritual is circumcision (your sons are circumcised right?) though and I wouldn't consider someone who had their babies circumcised to be anti-circ and certaintly not part of the audience the OP was referring to.
post #271 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheacoby
Part of that ritual is circumcision (your sons are circumcised right?) though and I wouldn't consider someone who had their babies circumcised to be anti-circ and certaintly not part of the audience the OP was referring to.
No. "its a bris milah. I couldn't really care less what you think I am. I *know*
I am anti circ.

post #272 of 384
I think it's still fair to say that the OP intended her post to be read only by non-Jewish, non-Muslim intactivists.
post #273 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthla
I think it's still fair to say that the OP intended her post to be read only by non-Jewish, non-Muslim intactivists.
Well than she should have posted on some exclusive board intended only for those.
post #274 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthla
I think it's still fair to say that the OP intended her post to be read only by non-Jewish, non-Muslim intactivists.
Even so, how does this defend the OP? It's okay to make sweeping judgments about why Jewish or Muslim mamas would circ their sons, as long as they don't see it?
post #275 of 384
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kewb
I am amazed this thread is still going.

Mercy for the newborns. Interesting.
Children's rights in general are heavy on your heart.

I know this is a bit of a tangent but my curiosity has been peaked. What about the newborn & children's right to food, clean water and shelter? Are you out there assisting new moms with all aspects of tending to their children or is your interest purely their penis? You are certainly within your rights to provide information to mom to be or new moms on your position of circumcision. Do you also supply information on how to feed & clothe them? Do you tell them they are violating their babies rights if they take them out in clothing you do not feel is appropriate for the weather? Tell them they are feeding their babies poison in a can if they do not breastfeed?

I do understand that you feel passion about this issue. I can even understand your frustration at what you feel are people's flimsy excuses for circing. For me, the way you present your frustration turns me off to your entire message. It is like those PETA people. I won't listen to a word they say because their methods turn me off so much.

I don't know WHAT you are talking about.
post #276 of 384
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelovedBird
Well than she should have posted on some exclusive board intended only for those.
I DID!!!
post #277 of 384
I'm not saying it's right- I'm just saying that this explains the tone of her initial post.
post #278 of 384
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelovedBird
No. "its a bris milah. I couldn't really care less what you think I am. I *know*
I am anti circ.


post #279 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenOfThePride
I DID!!!
REALLY!??
SOMEONE come QUICK. She needs the Heimlich maneuver!




Everone knows, right that there is no "exclusive" boad on MDC and none that excludes religiously observant jews and moslems, right??

I think that if there is a board like that Queen should definately find.
post #280 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelovedBird
No. "its a bris milah. I couldn't really care less what you think I am. I *know*
I am anti circ.

http://www.torahview.com/bris/html/the_bris.html
The word Bris means covenant; the word Milah, to cut.
Ritual circumcision is the covenant G-d has established with the Jewish people through the commandment of circumcision.

Are you saying you disagree with this definition then?

I am glad you are against non-religious circumcisions.
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