Is cannabis safe during pregnancy??? - Page 3

[JoshuasMommy]

By the way I do not condone drug use while pg. But I also view tylenol as drug use during pg. And not because I am some banner waving drug protester. Believe I couldn't be. I did insane amounts of partying in my youth and experimented a lot. But because over the years I have become much more aware of my body and what I put into it. I buy organic foods for my family, I take no over the counter or perscription meds unless absolutely neccessary. I use holistic practices when I have problems arise. And since I stopped going to western doctors 12 yrs ago I am the healthiest I have ever been. I have just discovered through process of elimination that the least amount of "stuff" I put in my body the better. And especially while pg I am diligent in this effort. But what I think is good for me may not be for someone else and I respect that. But I am human and I do have opinions! Tina~

[StrawHatBrat]

I wouldn't put drugs in my OWN body, let alone my babies body.
Not a risk I would want to take.

[homemademomma]

Originally Posted by kchoffmann

However, there is no denying that while people like to think of cannabis as "natural", it in fact has over 400 chemicals in it, including the same carcinogen which leads to tobacco-related lung cancer. .

im not weighing in on whether pot is okay during pg or not, but i just wanted to point out that pretty much ANY plant has a million chemicals in it, whether it is pot or bok choy or chamomile. plants use chemicals for defense, reproduction, growth, etc etc etc. all plants have chemicals that affect us in some way or another. just because a plant has "over four hundred chemicals" does not make it dangerous.

Originally Posted by StrawHatBrat

I wouldn't put drugs in my OWN body, let alone my babies body.
Not a risk I would want to take.

i totally respect that stance, but do you also avoid transfats and artificial colors and flavors, pesticides, household chemicals, artifical sweeteners, etc etc etc?

[Gendenwitha]

Originally Posted by kchoffmann

Also, as someone who grew up with a father who smoked pot regularly, I can tell you that, at least for me, the effect on my life was not benign. Pot makes a person really unavailable, and I needed my father to be present for me.

As someone who grew up with a parent with bi-polar disorder, I can tell you that bi-polar can make a person really unavailable. Even after my mother was medicated she was very self-absorbed when "down" and absorbed with everything else in the world when "up".

Not everyone who smokes pot is totally unavailable. Amount and frequency have a lot to do with it. I have two friends that self-medicate with it for anxiety issues and they are a lot more "unavailable" when they are anxious than when they've had a small amount of MJ.

We actually were just discussion in psych class bi-polar medication and someone brought up the preg. issue. Tired of the "well my SIL's best friend was taking..." discussion, I decided to do some looking up on my own. There's not a lot of information out there on traditional BP medication and pregnancy. Generally the consensus I've heard is that you don't want to suddenly discontinue meds if you find out you're pregnant, but there's not enough information to say if they're safe or not. I don't know that a doctor would reccomend traditional BP meds at this point, and I'm not sure I'd trust one who did.

OP:
Another thing you should take note of is that pregnancy itself can cause emotional highs and lows that are similar to bi-polar, not to mention post-partum emotional issues; such as post-partum depression, and post-partum psychosis. However you decide to medicate I would really reccomend journaling your feelings so you're very aware of what's going on inside, and seeing a counselor on a more frequent basis not just throughout pregnancy but up through a few months after nursing as well. (I've never seen a study done on it, but I've witnessed several women have intense emotional issues when they stop breastfeeding, or have a signifigant drop in breast milk production.)

http://www.psychiatrysource.com/psyc...rticle1623.htm

Currently, my mother has gone off lithium and is using fish oil supplements for their Omega-3 and Omega-6 fatty acids. These, as I recall, are also GOOD for pregnancy. So is exercise. I know of some other natural remedies for depression, but not speciffically bi-polar, and would reccomend you find a naturopath to see about other remedies.

P.S. If you find any good info on people or organizations who link natural medicine with psychology, PM me to let me know, it's a field I'm considering going into, but as far as I can tell, doesn't really exist yet with much organization, and is, unfortunately full of quacks just trying to make a buck.

[LavenderMae]

Originally Posted by thismama

Test you without your consent? Without your knowledge even? And then TAKE AWAY YOUR BABY???!!!???

Dude, the more I find out, the more your country scares the crap outta me.

Yes, it is some scary sh :t. Aww the land of the free!!!

[LavenderMae]

Originally Posted by StrawHatBrat

I wouldn't put drugs in my OWN body, let alone my babies body.
Not a risk I would want to take.

Do you drink coffee, soda prehaps (w/caffeine). Do you eat chocolate? Have you or do you ever take OTC's? For just a few examples.

[Smithie]

"Pot makes a person really unavailable..."

Another well-loved hippie child checking in here. My mother's smoking stressed me out, but only because of the horrible lies I heard in Drug Abuse Resistance Education. Imagine my relief when she didn't use pot as a "gateway" to being a crack whore and the state didn't take custody of me and put her in jail.

I am not crazy about any kind of drug use during pregnancy, but I'd choose dope over a pharmaceutical anti-emetic. I think there are times when an anti-emetic is an absolute necessity.

[MidwifeErika]

I would never advocate the use of drugs for recreational purposes during pregnancy or breastfeeding. However, the OP was talking about a serious medical issue, so this changes things a bit. Taking pot for bipolar needs to be weighed against the other drugs that can be used. There is very little studies about ANY of them.

Antidepressants can be a difficult fit with bipolar, it isn't like a one medicine fits all. I was put on a very popular med starting with the letter P, and almost killed myself on it. I went into a manic fit and really, really almost ended it all because it seemed like a great idea. So, if someone has a drug that works for them, I don't like the idea of it being monkied with too much.

There are risks of using pot, there are risks of a woman with mental illness being unmedicated, and there are risks of pharmasueticals. So, these risks all really need to be weighed out when making decisions about your medical health.

I don't know much about using pot during labor. I wouldn't personally want to do it incase there were problems and I needed to transfer to the hospital. I also just prefer to not use anything during labor. I wish you lots of luck though, trying to figure out what to do to keep yourself and baby healthy and safe.

[provocativa]

If you give your doctor your urine and blood, he can test it for anything he wants, private insurance or Medicaid- my guess is that Medicaid requires it, but I don't know. Just a legal FYI- in my state, and many, they won't take your baby if you test positive for marijuana, nor will CPS be notified. You can search norml.org and find links to the laws where you live, but it is tedious search and the law is often obtuse reading.

[homemademomma]

Originally Posted by provocativa

If you give your doctor your urine and blood, he can test it for anything he wants, private insurance or Medicaid- my guess is that Medicaid requires it, but I don't know. Just a legal FYI- in my state, and many, they won't take your baby if you test positive for marijuana, nor will CPS be notified. You can search norml.org and find links to the laws where you live, but it is tedious search and the law is often obtuse reading.

NO she cannot. it is ILLEGAL to run tests on someone without their knowledge, from my understanding. the reason they get away with it is because they just say they are running their basic OB panel, and you say okay, and never ask what that means. does that make sense? if they told you every test they were running, and you refused one or more of them, they could not run it without your consent.

[provocativa]

I did not say the testing was legal, I said they can, and they do. as you pointed out.

[Collinsky]

I would have to say no. I have to think long and hard about taking a Tylenol for a splitting headache when pg or bfing, and would not take any herb regularly - medicinal or not. So aside from the controversy of it being a mood-altering substance, I absolutely would not use it while carrying a child. But then again I don't take Tums for my heartburn while pg either... so I'm definitely not on the side of "If it works, it must be okay!"

Thorough research is definitely in order before choosing to self-medicate. Since going without something to ease your symptoms is not an option in this case, find out which course of drug therapy is going to be the *least* harmful to your baby. Naturally any drug, whether legal or illegal, WILL have some kind of effect. That is pretty well unavoidable. Your goal is to find the one where the benefits outweigh the risks. I know that you are looking into the marijauna to find these things out, and I hope that you find the info you need to make a healthy decision for you and your baby. I don't know what alternatives there are for bipolar, but I am sure that info is out there. I do think it would be very tough to find a dr who was openminded enough to truly help you sort out your options.

Good luck to you!

[Collinsky]

Originally Posted by hotwings640

There are risks of using pot, there are risks of a woman with mental illness being unmedicated, and there are risks of pharmasueticals. So, these risks all really need to be weighed out when making decisions about your medical health.

Very well said!! This is what I was trying to convey but I used a lot more words and didn't say it half so well...

As far as using pot during labor I know that I absolutely would not, there's a very delicate and important hormonal/chemical balance that goes on during each stage of the process and I wouldnt' do anything that might interfere with that perfect system. This includes any pain killers (which interfere with oxytocin) as well as weed.

[NurseLaurie]

Just felt the need to weigh in. Not enough "studies" have been done, but from my experience (limited mind you in labor and delivery clinical in nursing school) there a quite a few women who smoke pot admittedly during their pregnancy. It didn't seem to create the same respiratory, birth weight and blood pressure problems that the nicotine babies had. I choose not to use it personally, but I will say if given the choice between a women smoking cigs or pot... I'd take pot. Alcohol or pot... pot again. Tylenol or pot... yeah, I'd still probably prefer pot. Risks are only weighable by observing the newborns of the moms who use the drug, but in my most humble opinion, the babies seemed A-OK.

[trmpetplaya]

Yes, it is safe. As safe as drinking occasional caffeine and an occasional glass of wine are. Every US study that I have read is biased and the reasons for taking cannabis in the US, I believe, have a huge bearing on the outcomes of the studies as well. In the US, most people use drugs recreationally, not in moderation, and usually they use them to get messed up. Most people in the US who take cannabis also smoke cigarettes, drink, and use other illicit drugs. Almost everyone in the US drinks caffeine (which would have more of a bearing on whether the child ends up with ADHD-like symptoms, IMO because stimulants tend to have that effect on people regardless of whether they are in utero or not). In the Jamaican studies on the other hand, the people studied used cannabis in a cultural/spiritual aspect (similar to medicinal) and were not allowed to use it if they got "stupid" while using (whereas in the US, a lot of people use it specifically to get "stupid"). There were no ill effects recorded in those studies.

And for the record, the coca plant is not bad. Cocaine is what people make from the coca plant, but coca leaf tea (in its natural form) is actually quite healthful and much better for us than coffee is. It has a similar effect as caffeine, but without the jitteriness. It's wonderful for the digestion as well.


love and peace.

[tootpapa]

A lot has been said - some of it good - so I will add this bit:

As a scientist, I can say that there is often poor understanding of research studies, especially in medicine. First, I should say that to my knowledge there have not been a lot of good, large-scale controlled studies in the U.S., primarily due to the climate of hysteria surrounding drugs. But any medical study is statistical, which means it studies a group of people and compares them to a control group. It then measures something. Reactions to chemical substances can be very hard to quantify, especially because interactions with the body can be very, very complicated. For example, THC breaks down into about 30 or so different compounds in the body.

The results are statistical, which means if 0.1% die from a compound, then 1 in 10,000 ON AVERAGE will die. Mabe this 1 person belongs to a small subpopulation who is vulnerable to these effects.The thing is, if you are that one then you are 100% dead. So when we try to assess the risk of something, if it is not 100% safe (and many things are not), then there is always some danger. Keep this in mind with anecdotal stories; they can be a very unreliable way to make a judgement.

IMO (this is not scientific), mj is not particularly dangerous. Obviously the best way to do things during pregnancy is to abstain from mj as well as pharmeceuticals, caffeine, alchohol, trans-fatty acids, nicotine, and minimize exposure to environmental pollutants. This, however, is not always entirely possible. The one thing I would say is that if you use it, use only organically grown stuff so that you aren't getting additional chemicals which we definitely know are dangerous.

There are certainly naturaphathic ways to treat bipolar disorder and depression which are quite effective. Finding the right practioner that you can actually afford can be another matter. Diet and exercise help tremendously, but you need a well-developed support network to watch your back and make sure you don't slip into a hole.

Anyone who uses marijuana or anything else (work, television, alchohol, sports, religion) to avoid intimacy has an underlying problem that is not the fault of the thing used (I make an exception here for television). As an occasional smoker, however, I would say that long-term, heavy use does have some effects which can be pretty harmful to one's quality of life and other's as well. It doesn't sound to me like you are just out to have a good time and are weighing the issues carefully. Good luck.

[treefolk]

I agree with using as little chemical-altering products during pg as you can (including caffeine, etc) Of course anything in moderation is MOST LIKELY have little effect. I believe most of the studies on cigarette smoke effecting the fetus are done on 10+ cigarettes a day.
But if you are looking for facts - it is hard to come by a true scientific study. I find it hard to acknowledge the "my babies fine and so is everyone else I know" as fact. Measuring the human brain is a tough one. Somone else blanketed a statement that all the hippy kids out west are ok. Do we know this as fact? Do we know what potential could have been. Maybe a study has been done and I'm unaware of it. I am certainly not argueing that pot is harmful. I would put my money on the opposite if a true scientific studies was done on occasional use.
But I would be wary to offer my experience as fact, jsut to say this is how if effected me. Again - in pregnancy, MODERATION is a key word! I would be extermly hesitant about a caregiver being supportive of an evryday smoker (adding that I know liitle of bi-polar disorder, if this has been a proven aid for a dis-order and it is under medical supervision - I would say that is extenuating circumstances)
And I also agree that you must way the legal aspect as well....governmet is rather tricky! I urge folks to get involved in NORML or other such groups to try to change the laws so that studies CAN get done and the legal issue would not be around!

I am not pointing fingers or trying to start anything I like hearing everyones experience and I think it's helpful...it just gets fuzzy when experience is mistaken for fact!

[Talula Fairie]

As someone with bipolar disorder, it's been my understanding that marijuana will only make you *worse* not better. It can increase manic symptoms, and if you're also taking bipolar meds, it will render them ineffective. Marijuana has powerful effects on one's seretonin levels...and with a bipolar patient who already has an imblance, it doesn't seem like a good plan to me. It always made ME worse, anyway.

Someone said earlier Lithium is the main drug for bipolar. This may have been true ten or so years ago, but I know of no psyciatrists who will start with that drug. Since Depakote recieved it's FDA approval for use in bipolar patients, I believe that is the most common. However, Depakote is still a D risk for pregnancy. Tegretol is one option, catagory C for pregnancy. There is also the option of taking Essential Fatty Acids (fish or flaxseed oil pills). They work as a natural mood stabilizer.

As for marijuana, I personally believe it's safe in pregnancy. I once took some during a five day stint with constant vomiting (I have a somewhat mild case of hyperemsis).

[Houdini]

My opinion......why risk it?

[kchoffmann]

Originally Posted by tootpapa

Anyone who uses marijuana or anything else (work, television, alchohol, sports, religion) to avoid intimacy has an underlying problem that is not the fault of the thing used (I make an exception here for television). As an occasional smoker, however, I would say that long-term, heavy use does have some effects which can be pretty harmful to one's quality of life and other's as well. It doesn't sound to me like you are just out to have a good time and are weighing the issues carefully. Good luck.

Thank you! This is the basics of what I attempted to say earlier and clearly got misconstrued. You said it better - I'm probably too emotionally involved to say anything in an effective way on this subject. But this is the point I hoped would get across. Obviously it's a problem when people are irrationally and unequivocally against pot use, but it is equally a problem when people are irrationally and unequivocally in defense of it. It's a more complicated issue than that.