How I turned into a petty, ugly, out-of-control creature

[irinam]

yesterday.

I feel a need to let it out, even thought it is going to be long and not iteresting for anybody to read.

About a month ago my Dad came to stay with us. Now I must say I had big issues with him when I was growing up. Without going into details, he is a neurotic, unreasonable, insecure power-tripper. Most of my childhood/teenagehood was spent trying to avoid him at all cost, for if I happened to be "in his way", even if the "way" was to the bathroom, I risked being humiliated, yelled at, and have my buttons pushed until I will blurt something out. Then it was - "AHA! YOU ARE BEING DISRISPECTFUL!" <slap in the face> and waiting for my reaction. If no reaction - another slap in the face. "APPOLOGIZE IMMEDIATELY FOR DARING TO SPEAK TO ME THIS WAY!"

I left the house 14 years ago. I left the COUNTRY 14 years ago. With understanding and support of my DH (though I still freak out when males raise their voice, even if not at me) I thought I was over it. I thought I have grown up and am sure of myself and our ways of raising my children.

Then yesterday DD was upset and swang a toy pillow at him. True, not the best behaviour. True, should be adressed. BUT NOT LIKE THIS!:

My father(grimly) - I need to talk to you. THIS needs to be taken care of immediately. THIS is unacceptable (mind you I still don't know what "this" was)

Me - yes, father?

At this time DD is following me (the way she usually does) into the room he is staying in.

My father (glancing at DD, pointing the finger to the door) - OUT! (which was his usual way of "dealling" with our unwanted presence when my sister and I were kids). In my house. At my child. And I did not say anything...

At this point I was about to loose it and it took everything to camly ask "what is it?" while keeping my daughter at my side.

So he angrily/shakingly/studderingly tells me of DD's "offence". I go to our room and (surprisingly still calmly on the outside) explain to her that Grandpa is upset about the incident. DD - "Oh..." I - "I usually appologize to people when I do something to upset them"

She goes and appologizes - "sorry!" Not the most heartfelt appology, agree.

Then my father explodes - "THAT'S NOT HOW YOU APPOLOGIZE! SHE IS USED TO THAT - SEE?!?!"

I - "how would you propose she appologizes?"

My father - "IT'S NOT MY JOB TO MAKE HER DO IT"

After that I lost it and started yelling back... in front of DD... I saw nothing but red I was scared but determined to protect my child at all costs... there was no logic, no rational thinking... that button of mine that I thought was GONE was pushed again



I tried so-o-o hard to get away from it all and now I have to live it again?

DH tells me to try and explain GD principles to my father. I feel like I am struggling to teach my daughter and somewhat succeeding and now I have to re-teach the 60-year old man? Why? Because I was kind enough and tried to forgive and took him to live with us?

[Wugmama]

I'm so sorry you are in such a stressful situation!!! It is so hard to deal with one's father when they act like bullies, isn't it? It is hard for me, and my father was never abusive. I am glad you were able to stand up to him, good for you!

Is him living with you a long term or short term thing?

~Tracy

[Pandora114]

I would have snapped too.

SOMETIMES you can teach an old dog new tricks, but most of the time they are sooo set in their ways there's no changing them.

I would try to find an alternative place for your father to live, especially if you are fearful for your DD.

You can forgive, but you dont have to forget...You can forgive your father for the stuff he's done to you, but you dont have to forget and have him do the same things over again to your dd.

I would try to find an apartment nearby for your father to live in. He's not under your roof, and you can go tend to him, and keep your DD away from him if that's what you find is the safest bet.

[GeezerMom]

WOW!

Now, I have to ask - did anyone have to call the police? Did you draw blood? Break his things?

From your description, all you did was lose your composure.

I say you deserve a fricking MEDAL.

IMHO, you have every right to set the ground rules for how YOUR child is going to be "discinplined" in YOUR home, and it's HIS job to follow YOUR decision. Period, end of sentence.

Plus, I'd give him some serious lip about how pissed off you are for the way he raised you.

If he can't handle it, out the door he goes.

He can change if he chooses to. You don't have to re-invent him, though; just give him consequences for his behaviors and leave it at that.

The good news is, and this CAN happen, if the two of you can work your way through all this, you'll have the opportunity for a genuine relationship.

But if you don't have the time and energy to devote to a draining relationship, kick his butt to the curb and be done with it.

I don't know if this is applicable to you, but there are some good books on codependency out there - I've liked the ones by Melody Beattie. It's hard to "unlearn" trying to please our parents, but it's worthwhile.

[TinkerBelle]

I would be hanged if I let someone bully me and my child in my own home. He would have to change or leave.

[irinam]

Oh, wow - you mamas took your time to read this rant Thank you for the hugs and support

Originally Posted by GeezerMom

WOW!

Now, I have to ask - did anyone have to call the police? Did you draw blood? Break his things?

From your description, all you did was lose your composure.

I say you deserve a fricking MEDAL.

IMHO, you have every right to set the ground rules for how YOUR child is going to be "discinplined" in YOUR home, and it's HIS job to follow YOUR decision. Period, end of sentence.

Plus, I'd give him some serious lip about how pissed off you are for the way he raised you.

If he can't handle it, out the door he goes.

He can change if he chooses to. You don't have to re-invent him, though; just give him consequences for his behaviors and leave it at that.

The good news is, and this CAN happen, if the two of you can work your way through all this, you'll have the opportunity for a genuine relationship.

But if you don't have the time and energy to devote to a draining relationship, kick his butt to the curb and be done with it.

I don't know if this is applicable to you, but there are some good books on codependency out there - I've liked the ones by Melody Beattie. It's hard to "unlearn" trying to please our parents, but it's worthwhile.

Thank you Geezermom, I trully needed to hear more objective prespective without undermining my feeling I actually snorted a few times when reading your post

Originally Posted by TinkerBelle

I would be hanged if I let someone bully me and my child in my own home.

See, had you asked me A DAY ago, I would have said the same thing!!!

I guess the reason I am so pissed/upset has to do with me

This long forgotten (or so I thought) FEAR came over me and that fear was my driving force! I don't want it to be my driving force! I don't want to feel it ever again!

Thank you all again for your compassion!

[shanagirl]

This is one of the most profound aspects of parenting--the chance to reconcile the way we were treated as children with the way we want to parent our children, and the pain many of those memories (long buried) can cause. Your father has a lot of anger and a deeply ingrained way of dealing with it. Were his parents the same way with him?

I remember having an experience with my dad when my daughter was 2, where he lost his temper over nothing and raged, the way he did when we were children. It was Christmas! I snapped too. I told him that I didn't have a choice when I was little but that I did now and that he could NOT come to my house on a holiday and yell at me, for anything, because I was not going to allow my child to be subjected to it. I asked him if he wanted his granddaughter to see him as a monster. And that's it, that's the liberation, when you realize you have an obligation to put your and your child's needs first and show them how to be strong in those situations and calmly take charge. You must set the limits in your own home--your child needs the security of knowing you will do that.

Hopefully over time your father will see that a more loving approach is right, but in my experience, they sometimes have to work through a lot of their own anger and regret and put up a lot of resistance because what you're doing, the gentle discipline, the tolerance for childhood exuberance, is what they DIDN'T do, and they feel it as a criticism, They have regrets they very much want to deny. So the anger turns on you.

[Rigama]

I really don't have anything profound to add. The PPs pretty much said it all. I just wanted to let you know that I really feel for you in this situation. What a horrible positon to be in. It can be hard enough to deal with our parents about our own stuff, but when we add our kids to the mix, it's really a boiling pot.

FWIW, I DO NOT think you turned into a Petty Ugly Out of Control Creature. I think you are a mother who's father acted inappropriately towards you and your daughter and you came to her defense. Good for you!


Rigama

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

This is mostly a reiteration of what has already been said, but I think we, your community, are going to need to keep saying it until you believe us more than him.

I too was raised by a yelling, screaming, hitting, out-of-control, unreasonable father, so I know where you are coming from. I would never in a million years allow him to live with me. Nor, for that matter, would my DH. So the fact that you were even willing to try this completely astounds me.

But this is now YOUR house. Not his. He has no control over you unless you chose to give it to him. You and your DH get to set the rules AND enforce them. If you are going to continue to allow him to live there, I would do the following:
1. Sit down with your DH and discuss the rules of the house that will apply to everyone. No yelling, no hitting, whatever you think is necessary.
2. Both of you (because you need support and he needs to see a united front) present rules to your father. Along with acceptable alternatives. Maybe his room is his alone and your child won't go there?
3. He gets to choose to stay and accept them or leave.

Frankly, even after setting your boundries, I would still set up an exit strategy for him. Something so that you know there is a point where you won't have to live like this.

Above all else, remember that you don't deserve to be treated this way and neither dows your child. You are on safe ground. Stand on it.

[irinam]

Thank you thank you thank you to all

Originally Posted by Evan&Anna's_Mom

I think we, your community, are going to need to keep saying it until you believe us more than him.

This gave me goosebumps : I will!

[Niamh]

My mother was poison. She yelled at us, belittled us, and hit us with crib boards. And like little puppies, all of us kids came whimpering back trying desperately to be loved and accepted by her. We feared her but had a desperate need to be loved by her.

Here's something you need to understand: If a person in your life is poison, you can't keep contact with them until you or they have healed enough to make them non-poisonous. I took this advice over a year ago with my mother. She didn't change at all, but I did. Now I am able to be around her without either having a fearful pit for a stomach or wanting to scream at her. Also in that time period, I have learned that I have a talent for calmly standing up for my children. And I have no problem walking away with my children and telling her I'll bring them back when she can be polite.

I'm going to reiterate what a PP said.

1) Meet with your dad with your DH and not your DD. Make it clear that the meeting is to discuss 'house rules'.

2) Clearly, without hemming and hawing, state what the rules are. For your father, one of the rules obviously needs to be NO yelling.

3) Do give him a private space where everyone-you included-only come by invitation. It may be your house, but it's difficult for someone used to living on their own to all of the sudden have no privacy.

4) Tell him "These are the rules. Why don't you think it over and tell me tomorrow if you feel ok about living by them. If you don't, I will be happy to help you find your own place close by."

[HappyHSer]

In addition to the Beattie book suggestion, the book "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend is very good.

[hipumpkins]

I hope you get things worked out very soon!! I think you did the right thing to protect your child.

[janerose]

I just wanted to say

Did we grow up with the same dad? I'm not going to tell you to try to educated him or anything like that. If he really is like my dad was you'll just be wasting your breath. What I would do is go and be very direct and clear with him. Let him know that you love him and respect him, but that this is YOUR house and you will not tolerate yelling or ordering around in any way shape or form. Period. If he wants to argue I strongly suggest saying something like "I'm not going to let you draw me into an argument." and politely excuse yourself.

Maybe the sounds kind of dramatic, but I know how my dad was and with some people only the bluntly direct approach works. Polite, but blunt.

Anyway, good luck however it turns out. You did a great job yesterday. Sure your dd saw you loose it, but she saw you loose it defending her. And it gives you a great opportunity to talk about kindness, anger, and how our actions/words make other people feel.

Go easy on yourself mama.

Holly

[Arwyn]

Originally Posted by irinam

This long forgotten (or so I thought) FEAR came over me and that fear was my driving force! I don't want it to be my driving force! I don't want to feel it ever again!

Oh wow do I know this feeling. It has to do with something else, but I think the feeling is the same. (I'm bipolar and had a few really bad years - the desire to avoid returning to that crazy dark chaos has been my prime motivator for cultivating health for the past few years.) The thing I had to learn in my own life is that the fear of fear can be, well, as paralysing as the original fear. But it can also be motivation for change.

I also feel it sometimes when dealing with my emotionally-three-year-old dad (an unhealthy unattached emotionally neglected three year old at that...). I think we all have times when we find ourselves slipping back into old patterns of behavior around our natal family - it's just so much worse for those of us who were in really abusive environments, and whose family hasn't done any healing or growing in the meantime. As another side comment, my dad's abusiveness was (and is) in the nature of a toddler (see above amendments to that - I know a lot of really wonderful, kind toddlers too), not purposeful, just as a side effect of his own pain and damage. Conceptualizing him like that has made it a lot easier for me to forgive him, and has helped me be more compassionate in my relationship with him - and thus protect myself better. Just like I wouldn't hand a toddler a loaded gun, I don't give my dad the ability, opportunity, or right to hurt me. I'm an adult, and if he acts a mean, petty, controlling child, that just means I have more power than him - of course, sometimes we both end up being toddlers screaming at each other over whose toy it is!

It can get better. You can do it.

[rryman]

Just wanted to let you know that I think you did the right thing! That is your house and he is the guest. I can only imagine how scared your dd was I would definitly let him know the rules of YOUR house.

[Maple Leaf Mama]

Are we long lost sisters? Did you live in my house and I just didn't know it???
My Dad is a cc of yours. Tough as nails, grew up during the depression and is now a psychiatrist who thinks he knows everything.
He used to tell me "I know everything and you know nothing"

I still have the fear you mention.
I won't go on and on, but suffice it to say that I am trying to be the AP, GD parent I wished I had growing up. (my mum died when I was 10-and the mental and physical abuse door swung wide open the day of the funeral)

Dh already knows DD will NEVER be left alone with my dad. EVER. I have 0 trust in him to be nice to her.
I don't want her to be afraid of him like my sister's kids.

I'm terrified of standing up to my dad (he goes fetal whonever someone says boo to him) and it would mean the end of any relationship.

BUT, so help me god, if he touched or scared my DD all hell would break lose- don't **** with mama bear.

So all that to say--I understand your feelings and reaction better than you would think a stranger could.
Hang in there Mama!
HUGS!
Sandy

[WuWei]

Are you the person/parent you want/able to be with your father living with you? You can only change you.

He would/could not live with me. Period. My priority is to break the cycle of abuse. That can not happen living with either of my parents who will/can not change.

Pat

[vegaenglit]

Originally Posted by scubamama

Are you the person/parent you want/able to be with your father living with you? You can only change you.

He would/could not live with me. Period. My priority is to break the cycle of abuse. That can not happen living with either of my parents who will/can not change.

Pat

that what im thinking. i dont understand, after all the estrangement and abuse, why he is living with you. please dont feel obligated to support him (i know that is easier said than done). ultimately you and your family is more important.

[irinam]

Thank you again for all your support and great suggestions

Niamh - hugs to you mama!

Hello sisters Janerose and Maple Leaf Mama (is there a "sad laugh" smilie?)

Arwyn - how precisely noted "emotionally-three-year-old dad (an unhealthy unattached emotionally neglected three year old at that...)". This helps a LOT to put things in perspective!

Scubamama and Vegaenglit - thank you! For now I going to try and make it work. He came from across the globe. He does not work/has NO money. He does not speak English. He IS working on his English/getting DL, got his SS# and Green Card. But I can't quite push him out the door

I spoke in length with DH about it. My father is "hiding" right now. Says "hi" when we come home and goes to his room. DH and I will bring up the subject this weekend, when both of us are home.

We are taking your suggestion about setting the rules and discussing them without DD's presence, but were both of us (DH and I) are persent.

<Sigh> Wish me luck...