I Hate School!!!!

[lilyka]

That is my dd fequent refrain when I ask her to do anything school related. I am affraid she is terribly unmotivated to do anything. OK she likes physical things but hates to do anything that involves thinking and anythink that *gasp* I ask her to do. She really is doing quite well but is so resistant to trying new stuff. I wish we could sit and do math and reading (hat is all I ask. Everything else is on a need to know basis) for 30 min without a battle. I let her pick the book she wants to read, which math stuff she wants to do, remind her that if the quits with the fits we would be done in a few minutes. Everything turns into a power struggle and it drives me crazy. I am willing to let it go everywhere else but for school stuff. She simply must be willing to apply herself for one hour a day (broken up in to smaller chunks of time is she so desires)

I htink public school would be really horrible for her and she doesn't want to do that either anyway. I don;t want her to hate learning but if I don't push her a little she wouldn't do anything. I need a little more structure than unschooling but we are a long long way from school at home.

Any suggestions to instill self motivation in her? How to help her understand sometimes we just have to do stuff we hate? Any tricks for making her like reading more (reading is our main problem)

I guess I shouldn't expect her to love reading. While I have always read to her she has rarely sat through a whole childrens book , rarely asks to be read to, and never understands what has been read to her. But I would think her love of all things "Big girl" would be somewhat motivating, but no.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. We really have no other options but to homeschool. I know it won't be this hard with my second. She is really into learning stuff and figuring stuff out. She is also really good about doing things I ask her. Two things Madeline has never really been into That makes it all the harder. I feel guilty thinking "this sucks but it will be great when I do this with Lily"

Sorry to whine so much. We have had a really hard couple of days. Thinks for listening.

[truly_sarah]

Before you go any further I would have her eyesight evaluated and also screened for learning problems such as dyslexia. It is suspicious when a child does not want to read! Most children I know who have not liked reading had some eyesight or other disability. It could even be hearing - some sounds that can be figured out in the context of daily life do not make too much sense sounding them out in text - the letters can sound so much alike! Maybe poetry is a good place to start, it is like singing and is easier to do something with rhythm! All the common problems are easy to test for and something to consider, yes, before struggling with her needlessly?

Just a thought in case you didn't have it yourself.

Sarah

[larsy]

I had power struggle problems eons ago with homeschooling, and it wasn't long before I relinquished them and looked for better ways. I wasn't willing to live like that. Researching about autonomous learning has helped me to evolved my ideas about how learning happens. I get panicky about it regularly, but every few months I see how much more the kids learn, in academics and everything else, without any sort of regular lessons or workbooks at all. Each one is different, from motivation and interests and when they learn to read and if and how they are interested in math concepts.

When people find out a family is homeschooling, they seldom ask about the academics. It's usually 'what about socialization'- I think this is because academics are something that a person can pick up when they are interested in it, when they see a point to learning whatever it is.

If a kid is having a hard time learning something that they want to learn, checking out the things like truly_sarah suggests might be a good idea. If a kid is resisting learning something that they are just not interested in learning about at the moment, focusing on other things the kid is interested in learning about might be just the catalyst that's needed for the kid to come to the place where they are interested in learning the previously resisted subject. Kids learn to read on up to the age of 12. Pushing it before they are ready can be counter-productive.

[anythingelse]

A few ?ss
How old is she and how long have you been hsing?
Did you withdraw from a school to hs?
Lastly, how does she do when you ask her to do non-school things at home?

[Linda in Arizona]

<<never understands what has been read to her. >>

It sounds like something is up. She might have some sort of language disorder or processing disorder or something. I'm not an expert, but if I were you I would want to figure out what is going on.

If your DD doesn't understand what is being read to her, that is the problem you need to focus on first, before worrying about getting her to read (she won't be able to get anything from her reading until you fix this).

You might try posting on:
http://www.kaleidoscapes.com/

There are several moms there who have dealt with these kinds of issues.

[joy]

I hated school too!!

Have you read Grace Llewellyn's "The Teenage Liberation Handbook, How to Quit School and Get a Real Life and Education"?
I recommend you read it, not just hand it to your teenager and say, "Here read this." I hated school too! When I read this book, I shouted, "Where was Grace Llewellyn when I needed her!"

joy

[Silly Willies]

I would to get her evaluated for speach and hearing problems.

Even mild hearing loss can cause major problems. MIld hearing loss is like stuffing your fingures in your ears.

[Leslie in MD]

my two cents

Lilyka, since the others have mentioned that you should try to see if there is some medical problem with proceeding, I thought I would cover another area in case you are sure it's nothing medical. Do you think this is purely a bad attitude? In that case, you have to decide how far you are willing to go. I'm going to tell you what I would do, but it may not be right for you. That being said, here goes.

I recently told my 2nd grader that a bad attitude was not acceptable in our home. I started reminding him in the morning that I want to see a boy with a relaxed, happy face, a boy who is respectful of the authority of his Mom, a boy who is ready to be obedient and get some work done. He now sees that our day goes much smoother when he has the appropriate attitude. If he lapses back into laziness or disrespect, he loses the priviledge of watching his favorite tv show. A second lapse results in him losing computer priviledges. I haven't had him reach "phase 3" yet, but his Dad would be called and he would be paddled. Anyway, once my ds saw that I would no longer tolerate his behavior (which wasn't that bad, but I knew it could be better), he has really improved. Our relationship is much better now too and there is a lot more laughter and hugging going on in our house.

Please understand that I'm not saying to do this if you think that there is a true, valid, medical problem going on with your dd. This scenario is only to be applied (and would only work) if you think that your dd needs an attitude adjustment or a reminder of who is boss. I think you have to decide for yourself first that the bad behavior will not continue. Once you do that, you should be able to make your daughter comply. Show her you love her and that you want to improve your relationship with her, and that to do that, you have to fix this problem. If she needs to stay in her room in her bed for a few days, so be it. You will be happy that you "nipped this in the bud".

First, decide if you feel there is a medical issue.

Hope this helps! Leslie in MD

[Silly Willies]

I was going to put something down about attitude. I did not in fear that look into a medical base. Rule thouse out first. Or you will have forever guilt.

I will admit we have our days. 2 days ago, my son could not remeber what we had just read. Surely for the reason he did not want to work. We are lax but we have to work. I told him to go sit on his bed and when he is ready to work we will work, then he will be allowed to play. It took us 20mins to finish the task once he got himself motivated. Then it took me 2 hrs for me to get him to put it down. LOL

Some times you do have to find ways to light fires under there butts. LOL

Some times it is a dicipline fire and some times it is learning style fire. Are you not insinc with the learning style.

The project we were doing was on maps (Symbols, ledgends). I had to go over the boring stuff a little before we could get to the fun part.

[lilyka]

How old is she and how long have you been hsing?
She is 5 and a half and we have been homeschooling for about a year. Seriously for about 4 months.

Did you withdraw from a school to hs?
No.

Lastly, how does she do when you ask her to do non-school things at home?
The same way. she rarely wants to do anything if I ask.
And has no inborn desire to please anyone but herself. I was a people pleaser to unhealthy degree when I was a kid so I did really well in school. Anything to make the teacher like me. Like I said, not healthy but the only thing I can relate to.


We are going for a follow up evaluation in a couple of weeks to asses learning dissabilities. I have deslexia that wasn't diagnosed untill college (boy did that explain a lot) so I have been pretty sensitive. She just has absolutely no attention span. She can't evn eat a scoop of ice cream before it melts. And she likes that for sure It is hard to tell if that is why it seems she has a hard time understanding what i say or if her troble understanding has caused a short attention span. We have tried the whole "this is the way we expect you to act" but she would really rather sit on her bed al day and do nothing.

i know she will be really happy when she can read on her own but she doesn't want to do the work to get there. And I can really sypathize but come on, she could do it once a week without a fit and I would be happy.

I know a lot of it is attitude. She has always had a negative attitude. She isn't what people describe as a happy child. i was thinking about having her checked for allergies. I see an ENT who does wonderful things for his allergy patients. The more I think about it the more she looks like the kids on the posters in his office. Does anyone have experiance with a childs learning and attention abillities being effected by allergies?

Well, I will keep you posted. Thanks for all the information.

[anythingelse]

If she is only 5 1/2 maybe she isn't developmentally ready to read yet. Many children who are not LD just simply don't read until they are 8 or so. There are many advantages to starting to read later, check out the unschooling.com boards to find more info. At 5-6, she could learning math or reading skills by cooking and playing board games.
As far as LD diagnosis you can find a lot of info at LDonline.org, but a good LD teacher would tell you that some of the things like reversals are age appropriate and short attention spans. Usually kids in public school don't get labeled Dsylexic till around 2-3 grade, at her age she probably just wants to play and that IMHO is normal.
Butting heads with Mom is also a 5 year old thing, it is definately a year for independence and power struggles, difficulty transitioning from one place or routine to another even if it is something she may enjoy. I suggest doing an interest inventory and observing/journaling for a while instead of 'schooling' to see what her learning style is.

**i know she will be really happy when she can read on her own but she doesn't want to do the work to get there. And I can really sypathize but come on, she could do it once a week without a fit and I would be happy.

So it seems like you can either accept that she doesn't want to, try to find out why (LD, vision, immaturity, or attitude ), or try to find a new teaching style & expectations that you both can live with. From my experience I can tell you that my kids all learned to read and are learning to read in very different ways and ages. My oldest read preprimers by 2, the next at age 8 is learning basic sight vocabulary now and Hates to read but likes to be read to, next child is turning 5 and almost caught up to him, but he hates being read to. All kids have grown up in the same print rich environment with no pressure to learn to read. Maybe learning to read is more important to you then it is to your child and your dd has figured that out. My favorite part of homeschooling is that my kids can learn w/o pressure at their own pace following their own interests. IMHO That is the key to being a life long learner, motivated by intrinsic rewards, not memorising things & finishing workbooks to please mom.

[Silly Willies]

When she sits on her bed what does she do?

Dyslexia does run in families.

I also will encourage you to read

The Out-Of-Sync Child : Recognizing and Coping With Sensory Integration Dysfunction
by Carol Stock Kranowitz

She could just not ready for book learning. Have you tried books on tape? You would be amazed at what she can learn from these.

[erika]

what are you trying to do with reading? i'm hsing my 5yo dd as well. i've done a little bit of phonics with her, but she usually gets bored and even frustrated so i've decided to drop it. my hs approach has changed dramatically since September! our reading consists of me reading to her, period, unless she asks what a word is or wants to try reading things on her own. for math we use cuisinaire rods - that's her favorite part of hs. we also have been doing oral math problems for fun for a long time now without calling it math or school -- if you and your friend are playing together and your sister joins you, how many children are there? (etc)

maybe you can try a stealth approach - read around and find some activities that fit your definition of school but that you don't call school and see if you can get her excited about them. we have an upwords game that dd loves to play with - she gradually went from just playing around with the tiles to asking me what the letters were to doing invented spelling with them. she begs me to let her take the game out (sometimes it helps to put light restrictions on things to make them seem REALLY appealing) jr. boggle and jr. scrabble might also be good games.

a friend unschooled 4 kids - all with dyslexia, none read before age 12, and yet all were reading adult materials fluently within one year of learning! the oldest (high school age) is getting straight A's in community college classes and is getting ready to go to veterinary school, most likely on scholarship.

good luck!

[erika]

just had another thought. i recently read - i think in was in home education magazine - about a mother whose child was borderline ADHD and couldn't retain anything while sitting still. so she started to read stories while the child was moving all around the room, and discovered that if the child was allowed to walk around while listening s/he retained everything. perhaps after your child is evaluated you can then experiment with different approaches to see what works best. (we usually do our math word problems outside - hanging laundry, taking walks, during hug breaks at the playground, while we're driving somewhere -- but dd REQUESTS them so she clearly loves it)

a book on multiple intelligences or homeschooling from that perspective will help you do your own evaluation of her strengths and figure out how to present materials through her particular "intelligences".

[lilyka]

**"When she sits on her bed what does she do? "

She stares at the wall. Yes folks she really can sit ther all day and sometimes chooses this over playing.(for instance when she wants to watch a video and that isn't an option)

She likes to listen to books on tape but doesn't really retain any thing.


**"what are you trying to do with reading? "
We use 100 easy lessons but don't read the story. If she wouldn't throw a fit it would take less than five minutes. I really don't think this is too much to ask. She has also started reading the BOB books and hates to read them but, really likes the stories. so that is actually going O.K.

We have completely ditched math untill our cuisinaire rods get here. She just can't recognize patterns so counting past 10 is a lesson in futillity.

I know it may seem early but we have to do standardized tests and she has to be able to read for those. She has be able to read well enough so that when they put her in the room with the tester she doesn't freeze up and frget how. Besides when she tries she does well. Very wellSo I really think she has the brain power, it is the will that is weak. Maybe. Somedays she really does seem like she truely doesn't know stuff she has known for months.

[Silly Willies]

I really really incourage you to read the out-of-sync child.

[joy]

other options?

Are there other options for this young person? Try to think back to your high school years? Were they really happy, wonderful times?! Having no choices and feeling stuck can make anybody have a "bad attitude".
Why does a child have to like school? Being told what to do and what not to do, and when to do it and when not to do it and ........"this is what you like and what you don't like, and if you don't then you have a bad attitude?"


Something to think about.....................if there was no school "system" would any of this be an issue?

Another of Grace Llewellyn's books that I recommend is: ELEVEN TEENAGERS THAT DON'T GO TO SCHOOL

joy

[erika]

are you linked into any local or state homeschooling support group? S. Dakota doesn't require testing until 2nd grade. many states (don't know if yours is one) allow you to choose which standardized test to give, and you could also have another homeschooling parent or even a grandparent or friend administer the test. that makes it much lower pressure on your child.

it sounds as though you are doing your best to try to stay out of "trouble" with the authorities, but it is getting you into trouble with your daughter.

what about forgetting about the testing for now? when she is 7 or 8 and is officially 2nd grade age you could get in high gear for reading. or try a more gradual, subtle approach over the next few years. some kids get into 100 easy lessons, some kids find it really tedious!

my mother sent me some books of phonics poems and games. dd sometimes likes the poems, sometimes not, but she loves the games - her favorite is a memory game with pictures where you have to match the ones that rhyme. these books are by scholastic so they would be easily available at a teaching supply store, if you think your daughter would get into games.

[erika]

i just had another thought. i don't think my dd would sit still for 100 easy lessons, either, but she loves to bake and cook, and i have been teaching her how to read recipes. we only work on the ingredients list, and i have stuck with just teaching her how to read the measurements, such as cup, teaspoon, and tablespoon, but she really gets into it because we are focused on this other activity - baking - and she doesn't think of it as learning how to read. eventually we'll move on to reading the ingredient names as well.

if your dd is in a negative stage she may not want to help cook, but if she's interested it might be worth a try.

[Linda in Arizona]

I second the vote for "The Out-of-Sync Child" by Kranowitz. I have a 5 year old with a sensory integration disorder.

I also recommend reading "Your Child's Growning Mind" by Jane Healy. It is about brain development.

<<We use 100 easy lessons but don't read the story. If she wouldn't throw a fit it would take less than five minutes. >>

Something is wrong. Homeschooling for a 5 year old should not results in fits. I think you need to step back and try something different.

You need to find something your DD likes.

There are a lot of things that you can do to help language development, such as learning poems together, writing down a story for her that she dictates, playing language games, just using language while doing other things like cooking, science projects, etc.

My five year old is currently working through the primer books for the explode the code series:

Get Ready for the Code
Get Set for the Code
Go for the Code.

They are very simple and work on learning the names and sounds of the letters. She really likes them.

Your DD doesn't need to learn to read right now. really.