I Hate School!!!! - Page 2

[Britishmum]

I think you need to stand back a little and analyse what you could be teaching without what your daughter will perceive as being formal lessons. I'd forget any formal work for now. Read stories (of her choice) regularly, using real books. Don't ask her to do any of the work, just read to her. If you have books with repetition and rhyme you will find that she will start to join in. Eventually she will memorise the text and 'read' it for herself.

So many people complain that children 'only read from memory'. That's what reading is! She will begin from memory, then gradually learn to read independently.

I believe that each person has his or her own learning style. You need to cover all aspects of language - phonics are important, but so is whole word recognition. The use and understanding of language is a key building block for literacy. Does your daughter understand stories that she chooses to read (ie not 'reading books' - I"m not familiar with 100 easy lessons, but I'm assuming it is some sort of scheme of work) If she doesn't understand real stories it may be worth an assessment of her language skills so that you can identify if there is a specific learning issue. It may be worth investigating using Brain gym - there is a website, I think its www.braingym.com - so that you incorporate lots of learning brain breaks into your work sessions. You can use and adapt Brain Gym to teach letters and numbers in a fun physical way. This is especially useful for children who learn best through movement.

Regarding maths, try to incorporate it into everyday activities. Number songs, rhymes, reading recipes, sorting coloured blocks, different sized tubs, using mathematical language such as behind, in front, below, shorter, longer, is all part of maths. Lots of five year olds can't count items beyond ten - that is completely normal. Conservation of number is a challenging concept to young children. Try to make it fun, not a chore - attitudes to maths are formed early and you need to make sure that your child forms a positive one.

Games that involve moving pieces and counting, using a dice, sorting and sharing things, will all teach maths concepts. Joining the dots to make pictures, colouring by numbers, and other art activities can help if your child likes drawing. Dominoes and matching games, such as snap, are great for maths. You can make your own sets of cards with your child to make it more fun and personal.

Most of all, I think you need to relax and find learning opportunities through play. To a young child, play is work and work is play. That is not to say that you let them play freely all day, but you can structure play activities and give guidance to facilitate learning.

Hope this has been some help!

[Leslie in MD]

you are sounding so down!

Lilyka, how are you faring? You sound really depressed. I know that you are worried about dd. I'm wondering why she can do things sometimes and not at other. You said that you would like her to do 100 EZ lessons eveyday and not read the story, but that she was only doing it once a week. One thing to keep in mind is that if she's only doing it once a week, she could REALLY forget the letter sounds. I'm doing 100 EZ with my 4 year old and I can tell a big difference in his reading if I skip a day. I think that you have gotten some great advice from these experienced Moms on this board. I would like to second the advice that many of them were saying about games. Card games and board games and dominoes have been greatly used in my family for math. We like Yahtzee, but that might a bit too much for her right now. I think games like Crazy 8's and Old Maid and Go Fish would be good. She would have to learn to recognize the numbers on the cards and remember the rules to play. Also, have you thought of letting her write in pudding, or helping her to build letters/numbers with playdough? You could also try pointing out signs to her that she's familiar with, like McDonald's, and emphasizing that the M says mmmmm. I also think that trying to teach her when she's moving around might be a great idea too. I did this a lot with my son when he was in kindergarten. Like, I would ask him some question. If he got it right, he was allowed to jump rope 5 times or hope like a bunny or whatever I could think of.
Just keep your head up and maybe you will have some answers soon. In the mean time, just be creative and see what might work! Good luck!
Leslie in MD

[lilyka]

She hates games. It is really annoying to play games with her. She is so distracted that it takes all day to play. If it is a game where winning is involved and she doesn't win it is time for another melt down, but I am morally opposed to let her win everytime. Anyway . . .

We are doing somwhat better. We have taken a break from the stuff she doesn't like and are doing more of the stuff she does like (handwriting) We still do reading everyday, and we still have a fit everyday but i really don't think spending 5-10 min everday is asking too much. She really is proud of herself (after the fit) when she finishes reading a book. I think the not remembering things from one day to the next is more of a not paying attention thing. I have noticed that when she has a particularly bad memory day she isn't even looking at the book half the time. i have to remind her at times that is imparetive to look at the book when we read. She doesn't believe me. Although sometimes it really does seem like more than that. She really has a hard time seeing patterns. We have tried every kind of pattern game there is and she just doesn't see them. We have given up on counting for now. I just don't know how to teach this to her unless she can see the pattern except for memoization. What a drag. i haven't got the energy for that.

I will definitly read the "Out of Sync Child".

Thanks for all the advise.
Sandra

[Chelsea]

Sandra,

You mentioned that she enjoys handwritting. Maria Montessori, after years of observing children, learned that they often learn to write before they learn to read. I would encourage you to drop trying to get her to read, and focus on writting. The reading will come after she understands how the letters go together, which she will get from writting. Read out loud to her, but don't ask her to read. If you can find a set of letters that you punch out, like teachers use on bulletin boards, let her construct words with them. Give her a tray filled with sand or rice and let her practice writting letters and words. The more she writes, the more she will be able to read. Good luck...

- Chelsea

[Rivergallery]

Your daughter

This sounds very hard, but I have worked with special needs children, to the point that they were very severe, ie throwing themselves agaisnt the walls when I first met them,, I worked with them till they were learning to read.

Another boy entered first grade without being able to spell or write or read even recognize letters, by the end of the year he was reading and writing. He also did not want to learn these things and would crawl under his desk in class and not come out at first.

Here is some adivice I have... Have her assesed for mental delays,, this will help you know how to help her better. also the testing for hearing and dyslexia were good ideas.
Find out what she likes.. that is the key here. If she likes eating candy, you can work with that too, ie. count out five small candies with her, and then have her do it, counting to five, after the she can do it she gets the candy. I know this will be hard, you may just need to get her to say " May I have a candy please" then that would be giving her a small candy.. I am not sure how much your daughter can do.

You said she liked handwriting, something fun would be special markers that write like caligraphy, or smelly ones etc, and just let her color, or get large stencils she can color in.

She is probably going to need immediate rewards at first, and food is a good marker. Meaning if she does a simple task reward her with a sticker or small candy,, like an M& M..

You could play a game where you use M & M's and ask May I have a red M& M and when she gives it to you say thank you,, then have her ask you for a color, let her eat a few and that would be the end of the game.

You need to think simple and instant rewards, since she is not currently intrisically motivated, I do not think that punishment will work well for her, since she has already learned to punish herself, IE sitting on her bed doing nothing.

The biggest issue right now is to get her to cooperate with you, then will come the learning math reading and writing.. however there are pre-skills you can use with her..
Meaning the coloring with the markers is Pre-writing skill, and counting the Mand Ms etc.. etc..
If you would like to email me, feel free. [e-mail]

[Rivergallery]

Games

I had a boy I worked with that would also get frustrated when he "lost" the game. When first playing games let her win! To do this sometimes you have to stack the deck, or purposefully "roll" a low number but it will help the child. If traditional games take too long, reduce the game, ie if it is a baord game, make a closer ending spot, or take out all the back space cards, or cover over the go back space spaces. After a few times of playing the game I would fain frustration, of always loosing all the time. With games I would give the boy a sticker for every time he won, and I would say, "This is no fair, I want a sticker to" "I never win".. This allows the child to see how you feel, it teaches empathy.. Most often the child will either laugh or feel sad for you and try to give you a sticker. depending on the reaction you could win the next game. However keep tabs on the child and do not win too often, it is the immediate gratification of winning that is keeping them playing.

This type of manipulation is useful for children that will not play if they do not win or get too frusterated if they do not win. It iwll eventually teach them that it is ok to loose. But for children that do not care if they win or loose, or are ok with you winning, do not do this .
Just my advice Rachel

[Raven1]

She sounds a lot like my 9 yr old son. Just the other day, we had a 2 hr. struggle(mostly on his end; very dramatic) over doing some math work. We are Unschooling as a rule, but he himself has demonstratred a need for some structure/paperwork, so we do a bit, very little.
It raised and resolved some issues, but it was draining!
Yesterday, I asked him to stack up his books so I could prepare to move in a new shelf for them(in the middle of remodoling his room). He pitched a fit; my life is awful, it wouldn't be so bad if you didn't nag me constantly for a week/didn't interrupt me whilre I was doing something(dancing in his "magic" cspe to pop music, etc. I was NOT in the mood. I pointed out it seemed he responded this way whenever asked to do anything, that he would not have had to endure "a week of nagging" from me and his dad had he DONE it when asked a week ago by dad, that he could have done it twice in the time he had been stomping about and crying, and that I was feeling manipulated/like he was just trying to divert attention from the book chore and turn it into an encounter session/guilt trip After I refused to discuss it further, went back to my work, he went and did it, then came out in a great mood. Go figure. Sigh. I hope THESE are the "teen" yrs! If not, Lord help me
Anyway, yes, evaluate for a hearing/vision/learning problem, and if none, don't press it anyway. She is young (mine was 8 before he read! And he taught himself after I finally stopped pushing it) and when she wants/needs to read to pursue something she is interested in, she will.
Best wishes! Kimberly, mom to Forest, 9 and Lily, 2

[erika]

hey lilyka

how are you doing? it seemed as though you were going through some rough times with dd. how is that going? have you found anything that 'works' yet?

[grisandole]

My son also hated reading. At first, it was a vision problem, he was tested in 1st grade and needed glasses. Well, we got the glasses, and it helped, he was physically able to read, but HATED it! I began homeschooling in 1st grade, and it was always a battle to do reading......crying and fits and such. I tried MANY different approaches, and positive reinforcement helped a bit, or when we'd "share" reading (he'd read one page, I'd read the next), but it was still a battle. He was a bit better in second grade. By third grade, he was great at reading, above grade level, but didn't like to do it. He would never read for pleasure, I'd have to "make" him (by not letting him watch tv until he read for a half hour, etc). Also, he hated reading the directions on worksheets, he just wanted to skip over them! Well, this year (4th grade, age 9) all the sudden, he loves reading!!! Out of nowhere, he loves books and now is reading constantly! What helped is he read a book he really loved, and then I got him other books by the same author.......now he's branched out to different authors but same broad topic (boy's adventure/nature stories). I also find him picking up newspapers and magazines and reading them. I'm telling you this just so you don't give up....I thought my son would be one of those people who just doesn't read (so sad, since I LOVE reading). He also isn't good at writing/composition, but is also beginning to "get" that. So I think your dd will eventually grow into everything. However, I always did, and always will, discipline my ds for bad behavior/outbursts, etc. It simply isn't acceptable to throw a tantrum over something they know how to do. Anyway, that's my 2 cents!

[Alexander]

Originally posted by lilyka
She hates games. It is really annoying to play games with her. She is so distracted that it takes all day to play.

Forgive me Sandra,

but you've lost the plot!

If it takes all day, then it is not a game. A game is any activity that is inspired by the child, conducted volenterily, and for which the outcome is not known, such as playing with dolls in a dolls house, or pretending to cook.

If you are using board games such as snakes and ladders, and she is not interested, then these are bored games

The Swedes don't begin anything until their children are over 7. Why start at 5?

Take it easy.

Hope this helps.

a

[Alexander]

PS

I was a wall stare er.

I hated being interupted! It is quite possible she is "busy".

I'm sure the rest of the time, you fill her life with fun. Don't stop, and I am sure everything will just creap into her life.

Hope this helps.

a

[Hera]

Dear Sandra,

A couple of things come to mind when reading all of this. Is your child getting enough sleep? Is she eating well? By well, I mean fresh Organic food, plenty of protein (if meat, is it hormone and antibiotic free, or wild?). What is her sugar intake like? I am horrified that someone would suggest candy, especially something so full of dyes as M&M's, as a learning aid. My daughter falls completely apart an hour or so after one homemade cookie. Have you tried any soothing herbal teas when you get into a conflict? It is a nice time-out ritual. Try making a lemon balm (Melissa), catnip, and chamomile tea with a pinch of lavendar flowers.

[Hera]

oops- I'm new to this and did not mean to be finished yet.
Anyway, If your dd is interested in being physically active, by all means validate this interest. Really try to support what she is interested in doing.
The last thing I want to address is the staring at the wall. My mother in law tells stories about my husband getting into all kinds of conflicts with his teachers at school. Instead of playing at recess, he would "just sit there." They thought there was something wrong with him and that he needed to be held back a grade. As it turned out, he was very intensely thinking. Just sitting and thinking. It doesn't look like much to an observer. Maybe your daughter has so much whirling around in her mind, that it is very hard for her to concentrate on someone trying to tell her to do something. I say, watch her sleep, her water (please give her well filtered water to drink or herbal tea unsweetened, not juice!), and her diet, and let her do things that make her feel good, and really validate that so she knows you're on her side. And good luck!

[lilyka]

Thanks Herra - We are trying to make sure she gets enough to drink. This is definitly a problem area. We have also started her on vitemin supplements and something to fight yeast. my friend said these made a world of difference for her child. She won't drink tea unless I put a load of honey in it witch defeats the purpose. She is such a picky eater. I am sure there are places in her diet that are lacking.

She is doing better. We have ditched math for now. She even enjoys reading (we bought pink books. go figure) and we are using a different kind of paper for writing which make it much easier for her (she has always enjoyed writing but I think all the cluttered lines oon "first grade paper" stressed her out.

Thanks everybody for your imput.

[Linda in Arizona]

Pink Books!!??!! Where did you find pink books? My DD loves ANYTHING pink.

I'm so glad to hear that things are going better for you and your DD!

[boobykinmamma]

lilyka---have you read John Holt's Learning All the Time? I just did. Although ds is only 22 months, we are planning to unschool and starting to read up on it now. This book just helped me relax about the whole learning thing and how to go about it. Children learn to read on their own, and the more we make it about "lessons" and covering certain material, etc, the more they resist, because it's just not natural. It sounds like you're headed more in this direction, but just wanted to share.

[Linda in Arizona]

Originally posted by boobykinmamma
Children learn to read on their own, and the more we make it about "lessons" and covering certain material, etc, the more they resist, because it's just not natural.

Millions of people have learned to read by being taught. Many kids have taught themselves to read. There is more than 1 path, and oddly, they seem to end up in about the same place.

I've read Holt and found him very moving, but his observations do not ring true with my own children, who like having lessons.

[lilyka]

grrr, am I the only one constantly loosing posts on this board? Anyway. . . .

The pink books were BOB books. We told her she had to read them in order, to get to the pink opnes. Now she is continuing in case there are more pink books somewhere down the road. And you know they weren't just pink books, they were pink and purple

[Linda in Arizona]

Which sets have you'all used? Which ones are pink and purple?

Ali doesn't have to do lessons if she doesn't want to, but if she does them she has to do them in order. She tried skipping around in her Get Set for the Code book and got really frustrated. It goes so better in order!

[lilyka]

The pink ones are in level A Set 2 (the second box). There are only 2 pink ones but pink is pretty powerful motivator around here.