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Is it illegal for a FF carseat to go in the front seat? - Page 4

post #61 of 89
I think the percentage/risk factor srain was talking about included the risk of being in an accident at all--thus making her numbers pretty darn correct. Just to play devil's advocate here, but do none of you ever think about accidents where the back seat is demolished?? In my days on the volunteer fire department, I saw many an accident where there was simply no backseat left--often there was a front seat remaining though--by the same token, I also saw plenty where there was no front seat and an intact backseat--but they were pretty much even. And as a pp posted, your risk of a head on colision on a divided highway is significantly lower (and a divided highway is where I saw the most accidents where the backseat had been obliterated)
post #62 of 89
Another question--I'm really just trying to find out what people think about these things--but if a choice like this is blatently a mama making an unsafe choice, what about when a mama buys a car that doesn't have the SAFEST crash test ratings, how about when they buy a car seat that isn't the absolute top of the line--for instance--is the mama in a honda civic using an Eddie Bauer carseat really making choices that are as safe as the mama who buys a volvo and puts her child in a rear facing Britax Blvd. When we have a second child--are we automatically comprimising the safety of our children because now of course one of those children cannot sit in the middle seat (and often, neither can)
There are still countries, who have done their own research (who's government research I tend to trust more than the US) who actually advice the front seat rear facing as the safest possible option (of course with airbags disabled)
To the pp who said "who will disable this for you" it' had already been established early in the thread that the safest option for that was to have that done at the dealership. We actually had the bag removed completely as an additional measure of safety while dd was up front.
post #63 of 89
Kirei....Um, I just took a look at your sig and see that your DD isn't a year old. At this point it would be irresponsible for me to recommend anything other than rearfacing, whether front or back seat. She is not physically developed enough to forward face. So if you HAVE to...put her REARFACING in the front seat with you and disable that airbag.
I am glad to read you appear to have some time to plan the trip. You have to weigh the pros and cons and being a single momma, I know you are probably very short on options. Good luck and let us know how you are doing and when you are leaving.
Here are two awesome links for you to look over to verify you have got her positioned correctly.
Infant carriers:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/CPS/UsingIt...ear_facing.htm

Rearfacing Convertible seats:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/CPS/UsingIt...onvertible.htm

Dallaschildren
CPS tech and momma to 2 sons in seats
post #64 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire
Hey, I'm AP all the way. We breastfed for years; we cosleep, we sling. I not only have sympathy for a crying baby and hate the notion of CIO, but I also have sympathy for the general rattle-your-cage teeth-on-edge delight of driving to the soundtrack symphony of sobbing.

That said, I have two words: Ear plugs.
Oh, great. In many states, this IS illegal becuase it's unsafe. Not to mention, abusive. If you're going to allow a baby to CIO, you should at least have the courage to listen to it. If you can't handle listening to it, then a child is even less able to cope with having to live through it.
post #65 of 89
This is true, while in most places a carseat in the front seat is not a chargable offence, I don't know of anywhere that earplugs while driving isn't a chargable offence. If this is something you're advocating, I have to assume you've done it. A lot of police, ambulance and fire vehicle drivers had a collective headache at the thought of people driving with ear plugs so they won't have listen to their poor babes crying.
post #66 of 89
Thread Starter 
yeah, i forgot to mention that.... ear plugs are illegal. not to mention the fact that i would not feel right about doing that at all.

and if i were to put her forward facing in the front, i was going to wait until she turns 1 year old. that was only because i thought she HAD to be forward facing in the front. now that i know rear facing is okay (pending disabling the airbag), i will do rear facing whether she is 1 year old or not.

btw, thank you for those links... i think dd's convertible carseat is installed incorrectly in the backseat. i have always thought that the seat seems too upright... when she sleeps, her head hangs forward onto her chest and she gets marks all over her face from the straps (sleeping on them, i mean). it looks so uncomfortable. i will try to see if we can fix it.
post #67 of 89
Even if she's in the front seat, if she throws her toys, you still won't be able to bend down and reach for them if you're driving.

I've done really long (10+ hour) trips alone with DD several times, and my best advice is to put your DD in the backseat, and keep a huge pile of books and toys on the passenger seat next to you. If she tosses a toy, grab another one from the pile next to you and hand it back to her, and so on. When you stop to stretch or eat, collect all of the toys from the floor of the backseat and put them back on the passenger seat. I also keep lots of snacks and extra sippy cups next to me. If your DD is going to be upset in the car, she's going to be upset regardless of whether she's in the front or the backseat. Frequent stops, treats, and new toys will probably go a lot farther to keep her calm than riding in the front seat.
post #68 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly
Actually, the numbers are known - at least pretty closely. The link I provided before says that riding in the rear seat increases safety in a collision by up to 25%. That's a far cry from .00001 or .00002.

And yes, it's true that going anywhere is a risk. It's also not practical for the majority of the population. The point is that you should minimize risk where you can. The OP can't be sure that her daughter is going to be traumatized by riding in the back seat. She can be sure that her daughter will be statistically less safe in the front seat (even moreso if she's front-facing).
Thanks -- you said that way better than I could've.
post #69 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirei

btw, thank you for those links... i think dd's convertible carseat is installed incorrectly in the backseat. i have always thought that the seat seems too upright... when she sleeps, her head hangs forward onto her chest and she gets marks all over her face from the straps (sleeping on them, i mean). it looks so uncomfortable. i will try to see if we can fix it.
The 45 degree angle mentioned in the link I posted, is optimum to prevent the head from flopping forward and possibly cutting off the child's airway. It is the rule of thumb for infants who do not have head or neck control yet. BUT, since in your situation, your babe is almost a year old and has good head and neck control, you can adjust it to a 50 degree angle but I wouldn't have it any more upright than that. So, 45 degrees if the babe has no head or neck control yet, and up to 50 degrees as they age (some older babies HATE sitting reclined and sometimes moving it that 5 degrees makes them happier).

Dallaschildren
CPS tech and momma to 2 sons in seats
post #70 of 89
I would put her rear facing in the front with no airbag. When dd1 was a baby, she went in the front when she was with just one adult. Our risk assessment was that being able to make eye contact was better than not being able to.

Is it possible to put your car on a train and travel on the same train? I have no idea, but that might work.
post #71 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishmommy
Is it possible to put your car on a train and travel on the same train? I have no idea, but that might work.
I would LOVE to if this were possible. When we came from NY to Portland, I looked into this.... Amtrak only offers that service somewhere between Washington DC and Florida, I think. It would be the IDEAL solution for me!!!
post #72 of 89
Another thing I was thinking about last night....I believe someone already mentioned tying the items down. That's good...Also, what about contacting VW and asking if they have a cargo net that is compatible with your vehicle? I don't know...just trying to think of how you can travel the safest based on your limitations. You could stretch the cargo net over the whole kit and kaboodle. You may not have any hooks or attachment points for the net though....??????
post #73 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly
Actually, the numbers are known - at least pretty closely. The link I provided before says that riding in the rear seat increases safety in a collision by up to 25%. That's a far cry from .00001 or .00002.
Um, the example I gave actually assumed a 100% increase in risk. What is unknown, at least to me, is the risk of being in an accident at all.
post #74 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by shannon0218
Another question--I'm really just trying to find out what people think about these things--but if a choice like this is blatently a mama making an unsafe choice, what about when a mama buys a car that doesn't have the SAFEST crash test ratings, how about when they buy a car seat that isn't the absolute top of the line--for instance--is the mama in a honda civic using an Eddie Bauer carseat really making choices that are as safe as the mama who buys a volvo and puts her child in a rear facing Britax Blvd. When we have a second child--are we automatically comprimising the safety of our children because now of course one of those children cannot sit in the middle seat (and often, neither can)
Thanks for pointing these things out- some folks need to be reminded that virtually no one can realistically always make the "best" choice (when a "best" choice is even possible to know).
post #75 of 89
Unfortunately, noone seems to be answering it
post #76 of 89
I have to second (third?) the idea of shipping your car and flying. My mil did this, from Washington state to Connecticut just a few months ago. It cost, I think, $800 to have the car shipped. It ended up being the same price as gas, if not less, and then you would get there quicker and be able to settle in and get a job sooner.
That said, I am so sad that you are leaving the west coast
post #77 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by shannon0218
Unfortunately, noone seems to be answering it

I'll bite.

A new Volvo costs about $27,000 - and I'm talking bottom end, base model car. A new Civic costs about $15,000 on average. That's a huge difference. Not everyone is able to run out and spend the money on a Volvo. Not to mention that the NHTSA gives the 2005 Civic (with side air bag) the same safety rating as the Volvo S40 (the low end Volvo) in all categories except one -- the driver side, in which Honda scores higher than Volvo.

Sure there are cars and carseats that have higher safety ratings, but all new cars and all new carseats must all meet the same minimum safety requirements now, and the requirements are getting more and more stringent. The difference in safety ratings among products isn't as great now as it was 10 years ago when safety standards weren't as high. And sure, a Britax has higher safety ratings than an Eddie Bauer carseat, but the Eddie Bauer carseat still passes a pretty strict set of regulations, and is by no means unsafe. And again, there's a price difference between the Eddie Bauer and the Britax - a huge price difference, and most people can't afford the Britax - heck, most people probably can't afford the Eddie Bauer.

But regardless, the Britax seat isn't going to make a bit of difference over the Eddie Bauer seat if it isn't being used properly and in a safe manner.
post #78 of 89
Ok, you're saying both meet minimum requirments....so does a rear facing carseat in the front seat PROVIDED the airbag has been disabled. What about having second and third children? That instantly drops a HUGE safety factor of keeping the seat in the middle.
I guess what I'm saying is that everything is a balancing act, I drive in fairly unsafe areas where a lot of nasty accidents happen due to weather and people who are unfamiliar with navigating rural roads--because of that, I choose to drive a truck, I want the visibility to see beyond the farm fence, I want the size--cause out here, if you crash into someone it's probably another farm truck or a deer. I feel comfortable with my child in the backseat because I know what has to happen to the box of my truck before anything gets to her in a rear end collision. Would it be cheaper for me to drive a Kia--yeah sure it would be but I choose to drive something *I* feel is safer for where I drive. I don't have an alarm system in my house, hell I don't even lock my doors--I do however have dogs who are trained to bite--that's my comprimise.
I may make choices regarding my family's safety that you would never dream of--and I'll be you any money that you make choices about safety for your family that I would never dream of. For instance--I would NEVER live in New York, or even Toronto--because I don't feel it's safe. For you or many others though, you probably think that's a perfectly acceptable risk to take.
post #79 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by shannon0218
Ok, you're saying both meet minimum requirments....so does a rear facing carseat in the front seat PROVIDED the airbag has been disabled. What about having second and third children? That instantly drops a HUGE safety factor of keeping the seat in the middle.
Actually, if you have two or more kids, the rearfacing infant is much safer than say a forward facing child in a convertible, combo seat, or booster so the rearfacing child should be put in a rear passenger outboard position and the less protected child who is forward facing, should be put in the rear center seat.

Dallaschildren
CPS tech and momma to 2 sons in seats
post #80 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by shannon0218
I may make choices regarding my family's safety that you would never dream of--and I'll be you any money that you make choices about safety for your family that I would never dream of. For instance--I would NEVER live in New York, or even Toronto--because I don't feel it's safe. For you or many others though, you probably think that's a perfectly acceptable risk to take.
You make a very good point, shannon. It's absolutely true that we all make different, often equally legitimate choices about safety and acceptable risk. I'm not sure that's a reason to dismiss any of the information being provided in this thread, though. As dallaschildren pointed out in response to the choice to have multiple children - while the choice to drive with more than one child at a time makes them both statistically less safe, there is a more safe and a less safe option for carseat placement with multiple children where one is in an infant seat and one is not. So there are levels of choice. You make the over-arching safety choice (to have one child, two children, etc.) then you make the subsequent safety choices within those parameters. Where all things are equal, though, a child is statistically safer rear-facing in the back seat than rear-facing in the front seat and, it would seem, safer rear-facing in the front seat than front-facing in the front seat.
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