VBAC/HBAC Sub Group: Introductions - Page 2

[mamameg]

Originally Posted by KKmama

I'm not trying to be snarky by saying this, but I *do* think choosing to VBAC (in this day and age) takes some courage... (snip)

I've been thinking about this statement a lot since I read it a couple of days ago (maybe it was your eloquent use of "snarky" ) and while I do think it's accuruate on some level, I actually feel somewhat opposite. DD's birth experience was so bad, it would actually take every ounce of courage I have to set foot into a hospital, muchless willingly allow surgury again.

Everything about DD's birth was terrible, including the "service" we got from the hospital. The room I labored in had NO windows (center of the building) and the pipes were banging in the walls all night long while I was supposed to be "resting" and preparing for my 6 AM pit drip (induction : ). Drugs were offered to me several times during labor, even after I yelled at them to "STOP OFFERING ME DRUGS". After the surgury, DH and I and DD spent almost 12 hours in the recovery room (standard time in recovery is maybe an hour or so) becuase they had no pp rooms available for us. Then they tried to strong arm me into staying an extra day becuase DD was born at 1:30 AM, technically the "next day" and that meant I HAD to stay 3 days. And on top of that, on the day we actually left (they considered it "early"), we were woken up at 6 AM by LOUD CONSTRUCTION around the corner from my room. They came in around 7:00 to tell me that I was going to be changing rooms due to the construciton - that's when we said, "Ummmmm... no, we're going home." Afer much wrangling and several more hours in the hospital, we finally were discharged and went home. It was so exhausting. And they had to nerve to tell me I "should get my rest and limit the number of visitors you have". I told one nurse, "you keep telling me I need my rest, but you all are the one's keeping me awake all the time!" The whole experience was totally annoying and I did not feel taken care of at all.

Okay, so that was a bit of a rant (sorry ) but I think I made my point. ERC or hospital VBAC both involve being under OB care and freely walking my butt into the hospital, so those options are out out out. HBAC seems the only option left, yk? As much as I am looking forward to laboring in the comfort of my home, and I'm thrilled the option does exist, it angers me that this is my only choice, yet so many people are so highly critical of it, and so few people ask me why I am so adverse to the hospital, and then act like I'm just being a complainer when I tell them my story. The question shouldn't be "why are you attempting HBAC?" and then people are angry with me for my answer. Rather, I feel I SHOULD be asked "why are you so adverse to going to the hospital?" and then people should be angry with our medical "care" system/industry. Some people really do have it all backwards.

[eilonwy]

Wow, Megan, what a hospital!

[aprilushka]

My hospital stay was pretty bad (although not quite as bad as that), the worst aspects being 1) that one of the nurses got pissy at me for throwing up on myself (sorry I happen to be sick from the drugs you've given me and with this big wound across my stomach couldn't grab the bucket lying on the floor in time) and left me in it for a long time 2) they're bossy in the hospital-- you can't sleep with the baby, you can't carry him in the hall, you shouldn't be walking, you'll faint ---umm thanks, I'm so glad you've taken over ownership of my body pre and post labor and you know before I do whether I feel faint 3) the lactation consultant never bothered to show up and of course they were handing out formula packs right and left, thank God I had one nurse who at least tried a little to help me with nursing, although it wasn't that much help, they pushed bottles somewhat and gave DS a pacifier without my permission, insisted on taking him every morning for the ped which is exactly the time he was starting to nurse better.

Yeah, I will go to the hospital if we need technical help, but as long as I and my baby are doing fine and healthy I'm not going because my experience sucked and I haven't heard much better about hospitals generally since, only much worse.

[Stayathomemommy]

I hated my c-section. i had a previous vaginal, natural birth so i really knew what i was missing when i delievered one twin vag, natural and the other was taken c-section. my recovery was not fun and was on pain meds for 2 weeks solid. i will VBAC in a hospital, with a doula, my hubby, my mom, and my 5 year old. i am excited and nervous but i think its definately the "easier" way to go. i love how you feel after a vaginal birth. adrenilan pumping and all pain gone!! c-section it seems the pain just lasts forever and a day!

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by Stayathomemommy

I hated my c-section. i had a previous vaginal, natural birth so i really knew what i was missing when i delievered one twin vag, natural and the other was taken c-section. my recovery was not fun and was on pain meds for 2 weeks solid. i will VBAC in a hospital, with a doula, my hubby, my mom, and my 5 year old. i am excited and nervous but i think its definately the "easier" way to go. i love how you feel after a vaginal birth. adrenilan pumping and all pain gone!! c-section it seems the pain just lasts forever and a day!

See, I had a much, much easier and shorter recovery from my c-section than I did from my vaginal delivery. Exponentially easier! The two don't even *compare* in my experience. If I was making this decision based on how I felt 24 hours/a week/a month after the birth, I would have started planning my c-section already.

[mamameg]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

See, I had a much, much easier and shorter recovery from my c-section than I did from my vaginal delivery. Exponentially easier! The two don't even *compare* in my experience. If I was making this decision based on how I felt 24 hours/a week/a month after the birth, I would have started planning my c-section already.

Funny.... my one friend who is the voice of VBAC dissent in my life had a very rough time with her recovery from vaginal birth and she has insinuated that I had it "easy" have a c/s. But it's a bit tainted because she has NOT had a c/s, so I don't think she's in a postion to compare, yk? And I think there is something to what you are saying... I think the recovery could possibly be easier (different?) with a c/s, but it bugs me that she pushes this as a reason for me to have another one. (Not that I think you are saying that... quite the opposite, actually! ) There is just so much more to it than that.

I did a little vicotry dance the other day, though. She has a friend who just had a baby and I guess there were some breathing issues with baby upon birth due to not coming down the canal properly (maybe a vacccum extraction? not sure) and baby was in NICU for 24 hours. I said, "Yet another reason vaginal birth is better... coming through the birth canal does serve a purpose, you know?" She was like... "what? oh yeah, I guess it does." I just love dropping knowledge like that on people, especailly when they think they know what they are talking about and they just don't. Bwahahaha....

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by mamameg

Funny.... my one friend who is the voice of VBAC dissent in my life had a very rough time with her recovery from vaginal birth and she has insinuated that I had it "easy" have a c/s. But it's a bit tainted because she has NOT had a c/s, so I don't think she's in a postion to compare, yk? And I think there is something to what you are saying... I think the recovery could possibly be easier (different?) with a c/s, but it bugs me that she pushes this as a reason for me to have another one. (Not that I think you are saying that... quite the opposite, actually! ) There is just so much more to it than that.

Honestly, I felt the same way before my c-section; not so much that *everyone* would have an easier time with a section, but that I would have given the state of my first birth. After my c-section, I felt vindicated-- I was right, all along! It *was* easier! I couldn't tell people who'd had c-sections that they would have necessarily had a harder time with a vaginal delivery, but I could tell women who were miserable that they'd had sections because "my recovery took a whole two months" that having a vaginal delivery wouldn't have necessarily made things any easier for them, if they'd had a VDFH like I had.

Here especially, there's this major idealization of vaginal birth that happens, and it ticks me off. There's an assumption made that a c-section is always traumatic, always has a longer recovery, is always something to be avoided while a vaginal delivery is always easier, always has a shorter recovery, is always something to strive for. I'm definately planning to VBAC this time, but not because I think that vaginal delivery is a beautiful magical thing while c-sections are "just surgery." I know better than that, I have my own experiences to tell me otherwise. I have very different expectations for my VBAC than most... I don't expect it to be easy or painless. I've got different reasons for wanting to do it than most; I'm not out to prove anything to anyone, it's entirely a personal decision. So everything about this experience is different for me.

[aprilushka]

Some vaginal births, esp with epistiotomies, or sever tearing, or major inducement, or a combination of all of those plus others are more difficult to recover from than some c/s. I think it depends on the person. My c/s wasn't too hard physically-- in fact the surgery, with puking and shaking was worse in some ways than the aftermath. From my VBAC groups I know that the majority who had both feel that c/s is a worse recovery, but recognize that vaginal recovery esp badly medically managed vaginal birth can be just as bad.

Also, some people have great c/s recovery for the first followed by a c/s where they have terrible infections, take months to get over, etc. so again, it just depends on each experience. Or like with my mom, the subsequent c/s came with some other trauma the first didn't-- in her case, inadequate anaesthesia followed by a terrible PTSD filled post partum period back in a time where there was no one she could reach out to for understanding or support. She actually decided not to have more kids because of that experience.

Vaginal birth though, even with a more difficult recovery, does not bring along with it the increased risk factors for subsequent pregnancies that c/s does, which is one major reason to go for VBAC and one of my personal major reasons since I plan to have at least one more after this.

[mamameg]

eilonwy, I totally see your point about the romaticisation (? ) of vaginal birth. I often wonder if I would be so down on my c/s and so insistent on vbac if i hadn't had my c/s under such bunk hospital conditions. If I had not felt so overrun by my OB, so disrepected and uncared for by the medical staff, so disappointed with the accomodations, maybe I would be happily scheduling my ERCS. I will never know. But I recognize that is it possilble.

I don't have anything to prove, either. I am totally okay with the possibility that things may not go well at home and we may need to transfer, and there is a real possility of a repeat c/s. But at least if that happens, it will have happened under circumstances I feel more comfortable with, under the care of a midwife who believes in vbac, and with me knowing I did everything I could to avoid the c/s. My distrust in hospitals would never give me that piece of mind, and I don't want another experience where I'll never know if surgury was truly necessary.

[aprilushka]

As for the "nothing to prove" factor...

I sort of have this a little, because I feel I was sabotaged last time and I want to be able to let my body do what it can do, although I'm perfectly fine with the possibility of repeat c/s if something just goes wrong and I know it isn't because I'm "broken". But I did construct my birth plans to avoid sabotage without compromisng safety as much as possible.

But a lot of women do feel broken after their c/s and I don't think anyone should judge them for that. The feeling is what it is and to be told they are silly or stupid for feeling that way and that vaginal birth isn't any better isn't really any help (which is what a lot of people do, not saying that's what's going on here). The fact is from reading a lot of VBAC stories I know a lot of women feel totally empowered by it even if they experienced more pain with the VBAC than with the c/s-- others not so much, and that's fine because everyone was different. I think the key between a good and bad experience is how much a woman feels she was able to make a free choice, was not coerced, had as much control as possible over the situation, and her needs/desires were not subsumed to the personal needs/desires (ie, doing a c/s because of a holiday, etc) of medpros.

[KKmama]

I agree that being able to make a choice is so important...

I had a pretty bad post-surgery hospital experience with my cesarean (different and better hospital for the VBAC, though), and pretty hard recoveries with both the C and the VBAC. Overall, the VBAC *was* easier, but it definitely wasn't a piece of cake. But I'm convinced that in the long run, it's better overall for moms and babies to have VBACs, if they can.

When I said that it takes courage to have a VBAC, I meant that in a lot of areas, the tide is swinging against them. It can be difficult to find a provider to do one, and there can be unsupportive comments (even criticism) from others. It's not like that if you want an ERCS... it's easy to arrange, and no one says a peep about it.

[mamameg]

Hey VBAC/HBAC mamas! Just checking in to say hi, see how everyone's doing. I had a prenatal appt with my MW today, so I thought I would post an update. All is well! Baby and I are in good shape, everything is looking normal, so we should be good to go for our HBAC.

MW came to our house the other night, too. DH met her and feels comfortable with her. She checked out our bath tub and agreed it will work just fine as a labor/birth tub, so we won't need to bother with hauling in another tub. I do need to take a look at the list of supplies and get moving on ordering the stuff we do need. Better put that on my to do list.

My parents have been in town and got to meet the MW, as well. We've been discussing the birth and they are really supportive, defering to me 100%. It makes me feel really good that they trust me to make this decision. I know they have had a few apprehensions. They are pretty old school but are trying to be open minded, and I have been really good about answering all their questions and sharing info and stats with them and I think they are feeling more and more comfortable with it all the time.

I'm just getting so excited about this! I can't wait to experience actually GOING into labor on my own, having natural contractions, and doing it all in the comfort of my own home, without having anyone all up my butt and over-managing everything.

So... how is everyone else doing?

[aprilushka]

Okay for 2 1/2 years I've been thinking about VBAC just about every day (function of being in the main ICAN list which I'm taking a break from now-- if you don't read just about every day you can't keep up). I felt really comfortable about my ability to birth up until like, the other day at a great ICAN meeting where I heard two birth stories that should inspire me, instead they left me thinking maybe I'm the exception and I won't be able to do it (although I was thrilled with the stories, one was a really interesting breech story in the hospital for which I have to give double extra points to the mama for).

My anxiety is not tied to those things one can't help that you end up with a c/s for, like placental abruption, but rather that maybe I'm one of those wierd exceptions whose pelvis is messed up (unlikely since I've never suffered from malnutrition, but still) and the baby will only go posterior and won't be able to get through and well you know what I mean.

I guess I've got performance anxiety. I used to freak out like this a week or two before exams.

Anyway, I've decided from 34 weeks I'm off the web and I'm going to do the full Birthing from Within treatment for myself, but argh...I really did not worry about this specific thing before, I guess I've gotten past the other worries and this is the last one.

[KKmama]

I hope I don't sound patronizing by saying this... but I had the same sorts of fears (mine was more the "I'm the woman who can't go into labor on her own"/"I'm going to be in the minority and have a repeat C" sort, but I think it comes from the same place). I think these fears are really, really, REALLY common among VBACking women. Heck, I'm even having some this time around (of the "Last time was a fluke" variety). Maybe it is helpful to know that not all VBACkers are as super-confident about it as it seems.

There were a few things that really helped me... I tried pretty hard to surround myself with supportive thoughts/people/books/etc. If someone was going to be negative about my changes, I just didn't engage that person. My birth support people (my husband and my doula, and even my ob) were very supportive, and I'd say they believed in me way more than I did. And yeah, really tuning things out near the end is a good thing, IMO.

I believe you can do it!

[txgal]

We are getting so close now ladies. I wanted to recommend a great book I am reading. "The VBAC Experience", it contains womens ceserean stories followed by their successful VBAC and is chockful of informative and empowering commentary by the author. It has really inspired me and strengthened my confidence.

[aprilushka]

Thanks for the encouraging words. The ironic thing is that I've been hearing empowering VBAC stories for a while (well, 2 1/2 years really) and partially because of them felt very confident but this last week they had the opposite effect on me I guess this is just the last stage of my preparation journey-- I've already gone through the other fears for the most part and come out the other side, so now I've got to go through the "what if I'm one of those exceptions whose pelvis is messed up" sort of fears and come out the other side.

It's probably good I'm doing this now. I want my last six weeks to be relaxing.

[KKmama]

Just popping in to bump us up...

We met with our doula yesterday, and she brought up a couple of good ideas...

Since this is my 2nd VBAC, she suggested I ask whether I have to have the continuous monitoring again or if I can request to be checked 2-3 times an hour (like everyone else). At least the monitors are all telemetry (and can go in the tubs)... Since I tend to go late, she wanted to know more specifically how late I'm allowed to go. I'm allowed to go 42 weeks, but for me, that falls on a Sunday--she wants to know if that means I have until May 5th (Fri.) or May 8th (Mon.). I strongly suspect it's the 5th... We also discussed pain management options for if I have rupturing ovarian cysts during the pushing stage again... I'd like to have more flexibility with regard to positions etc. than an epidural would give me, but I think that mentally, I need to know that *something* is available if I have that (incredibly painful) problem again. I'm going to discuss pudendal blocks and other stuff...

My VBAC labor was super long (40 hrs). I'm pretty philosophical about that... I see it as just a day and a half in my life, and anyone can get through that. Still, I'd prefer a shorter labor this time. I've been kind of dubious about that, and it was good to have the doula remind me that it is typical and normal for 2nd labors (which this is for me) to be a good chunk shorter than the 1st. The pushing stage is typically shorter, too... and I'm 99% positive that this baby will be smaller than the 1st 2 (I'm expecting a girl this time and my 1st 2 were both big boys).

Apriluska, I feel a little bit like a weenie saying this... but in my VBAC labor/birth, I realize felt like I turned over the "believing it will really happen" to my doula (and to a lesser degree, my dh). I trusted her and believed her, and well, if she thought things were going well, that was good enough for me. If she thought I was going to make it, well, I guess I was going to make it. It was very helpful for me to be able to let go like this and to have someone focused on that stuff for me (and to keep feeding me positive comments) so I could focus on the contractions.

Where are the rest of you at with regard to birth preparations (organizational and mental), etc? I realize you must be further along than I am, because, well, I think most of you *are* further along than I am!

[eilonwy]

I'm working really hard on telling myself that I can and will have a perfectly normal birth. It's difficult now that BellyBean is driving me insane. Tonight, for example, I had really painful contractions for a while. I know intellectually that the pain was probably caused by the fact that BellyBean is in such an odd position (diagonal, semi-transverse), but I could just see myself ending up on terbutaline again... Anyway, I'm losing my mind but still keeping myself prepared, mentally, for the great fun of meeting my baby solo. :

[pfamilygal]

Boo hiss. I was in L&D this week for major dehydration from a tummy bug. After 5 bags of IV fluids I was still spilling ketones. Good grief. Anyway. I finally feel a bit better today. But, the nurse says "Oh, so you'll be a scheduled section?" I said, "Nope, I'm VBACing. I've had 2 vag deliveries and my section was only because she was transverse." She got a funny little smile on her face and said, "oh, hmm, we don't do VBACs very often." What!?!?! I've been told by multiple nurses and docs at this hospital that they do VBACs all the time. Maybe she is misinformed?

On the plus side, Lukey Pookie is now vertex. So stay down baby! !